4/21/08 Cardinals (Wainwright) at Brewers (Villanueva): 7:05 PM CDT

[tristarscoop]

I still think Turnbow can be an effective reliever. But Yost doesn't really trust him. Turnbow is unhappy. Turnbow gets booed all the time at Miller Park.

 

I am not so much against Turnbow as I am for Stetter.

What reason do you have to still believe this? I'm trying to not be too incredulous, but I hope you have some stats or something to back up what I think most of us feel is a bit of crazy at this point.

 

[JrDave2304]

So, is that going to be it for the whining from Turnbow that his 10+ ERA only gets to come in during garbage time?

The problem is, it's really hard to be effective when you never get to pitch. I'm not saying he's good, but the coaching staff isn't even giving him a chance to succeed.

 

Stop it...please stop it. He is a professional that lost opportunities because he did things just like tonight. terrible.

 

At least someone here is placing the blame correctly.

 

[twobrewers]

I would imagine at some point, Ned and Doug must have had a conversation that went like this...

 

Doug: So what is up with Turnbow?

 

Ned: Nothing

 

Doug: Well, do you plan on using him this year?

 

Ned: Probably not

 

Doug: Well, you either have you use him or we are going to get rid of him

 

And so Ned probably agreed to use Turnbow a few times to give him a "fair shake".

[iluvlamp]

COME ON HARDY!

[Ennder]

I just looked at his game logs. Gagne has never once in his career pitched 5 straight days much less 8 or 9. He has pitched forurtimes in a row about 5 times in his career(wasn't actually counting that).

 

Yeah, I was looking at that too. Wierd. Guess I'm going take what she says with a grain of salt next time...

 

I know everyone's getting on Yost for the Hart baserunning mistake, but I'd say more than 50% out of the time the contact play works, and it was Hart's fault that he didn't stay in that rundown long enough to get Hall to second.

 

And Hall doesn't even the ball in the air in the first place either. I know he's not the greatest manager, but I don't think today's loss goes on him like some of his previous losses (especially some last year).

No we didn't execute when we needed to. I'm actually bothered more by the fact he was considering bringing in Gagne than I am that he actually brought in Turnbow.

[brains and braun]

Wow! This game makes me want to head straight for the vent thread.

[iluvlamp]

Despicable.

[mastershake76]

Well, that sucked. This one probably wasn't *all* Yost's fault, but he certainly wasn't helping, either.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I guess I really cannot see how you guys are blaming this on Ned.

 

Is Dusty Baker a good manager? No, he's an idiot, but even Dusty Baker, brings in a top reliever in a tie ball game at home in the 9th inning. When we just played the Reds, who did Dusty bring into the 9th inning with the game tied? Cordero, his best reliever. He didn't put in the 11th or 12th man on his pitching staff, who hadn't seen action in a week.

 

I'm not saying Yost should have put in Gagne, he should have put in Riske, who ended up warming up anyway. So yes, Brewer fans have every right to complain about Yost costing them this ball game by his continued bad bullpen management.

[trwi7]

In typical Brewers fashion, they go down with a whimper.

[twobrewers]

What reason do you have to still believe this? I'm trying to not be too incredulous, but I hope you have some stats or something to back up what I think most of us feel is a bit of crazy at this point.

Turnbow still throws hard. He still has a nasty slider. And he does have a history of some success.

 

[brewmann04]

what a digrace in the 9th BTW BOW Pack your BAGS

[adambr2]

Well, I'm certainly looking forward to Yost's nightly condescending, defensive interview.

 

Reporter: "Was Derrick really the guy you wanted there in the 9th after nearly a week off and problems so far this year?"

 

Yost: (sneers) "Of course he was. That's the guy we wanted in that situation last year. That's what he did. There was no reason to think he couldn't do it tonight."

 

Reporter: (pauses)

Yost: (stares)

Reporter: So...Villanueva pitched pretty well tonight.

Yost: "Oh yeah. I was very pleased."

[brewcrewkid14]

Well, maybe we're just getting games like these out of the way early this year instead of later like we did last year! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[tristarscoop]

What reason do you have to still believe this? I'm trying to not be too incredulous, but I hope you have some stats or something to back up what I think most of us feel is a bit of crazy at this point.

Turnbow still throws hard. He still has a nasty slider. And he does have a history of some success.

 

Wow, you are an optimist!

 

[uwbufu24]

I'm more worried that the Cubs are scoring 8 runs a game and we're scoring 3-4.

 

Echoing the common sentiment re: Turnbow. He has no more worth to this team. We can't afford to play russian roulette in this pennant race. At least with Riske/Mota/anyone else out there they actually make the hitters work for the run.

[dlk9s]

Well, that sucked. This one probably wasn't *all* Yost's fault, but he certainly wasn't helping, either.

If I'm going to pick out one person to blame directly (which you really can't do in a team sport, but I will do it anyway), I'd have to pick Hart. If he doesn't commit that error and doesn't get caught in a run-down, we win. Yeah, maybe the coaches told him to run on contact, but come on. You don't run from 3rd on a ball hit to 3rd.

Anyway, it's not like there weren't other opportunities to win.

[Tailgat0r76]

man, I have tried to be the biggest Turnbow supporter over the years, but I think it's time we give up on that man!

If we're going to make a playoff push we can't have such an unknown as Turnbow. That's why I love our bullpen so much this year as opposed to the last few; we know what we'll get from most everyone back there (barring McClung and of course Turnbow).

[brewcrewkid14]

Well, even when he got in the rundown, he should have at least made an ATTEMPT to stay in it a bit longer than he did.

 

I hate to say it, but right now this division looks like the Cubs' to lose. Oh well, a lot of things can happen in a 143 games.

[AJAY]

Plenty of blame to go around tonight.

 

Anyway, I just HATE losing at home to a bunch of nobodies.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Simple as this - if the offense would actually score some runs, we wouldn't have to worry about what relievers are constantly getting put in late game, high pressure situations. It's been this way every single game since the Ben Sheets shutout against the Giants. How many good starts have resulted in no decisions or tough-luck losses so far this season? At least 5-6?

 

If the Brewers are giving up 4 runs a game as a pitching staff this offense was supposed to be winning most of those games with ease.

 

Turnbow continues to stink, but what's the point of constantly using Riske, Mota, Torres, and Gagne when the offense can't score? By June their bullpen will be completely shredded if the offense can't give them a breather game every now and then by putting 6-8 runs on the board.

[JrDave2304]

If he puts in Riske and he gives up the run, you guys are asking why Turnbow isn't in there. Anything Yost does, you guys criticize. Place the blame on Turnbow; the guy who gave up the run. So what if he hasn't pitched in a while, this was his chance to prove he belonged on the team with a pretty tired rest of the bullpen. He didn't get the job done, and I hope to not see him for a while in the bigs. Send him down to AAA to figure it out. He was a closer so he has been in plenty of these situations before and should get the job done, regardless of how long it's been since he pitched.

[TooLiveBrew]

What reason do you have to still believe this?

 

Turnbow was actually able to command his slider tonight, for the first time in what felt like years. Yes, he grooved his fastballs early, but if he can sustain command of the slide-piece, the FB can go back to playing its nasty role of the inverted changeup. In fact, if he can locate the slider like he did tonight, it won't matter as much if he makes the mistakes he did tonight with FB location. I was very happy to see Turnbow's stuff tonight -- especially after he'd been hit, Derrick was in command of his breaking pitch.

 

It sucks we lost, but there were chances to score more runs earlier, and the Crew farted out on them. Can't put that all on TBow or Yost. And, yes, I fully agree that Hart was the goat tonight. Words cannot describe how much I hate the 'contact play'.

 

EDIT: If he puts in Riske and he gives up the run, you guys are asking why Turnbow isn't in there. Anything Yost does, you guys criticize.

 

This comment needs to go away. Totally unconstructive. 'Anything Yost does... blah blah blah'

[strawbossisevil]

He did have an ERA under 2 when he didn't pitch back to back games last year. Unless he's a completely different pitcher this year, he can still be effective when used correctly. Now Ned just has to use him correctly.

[datrain711]

where is the offense? I love hearing about how awesome Bill Hall is at going the other way in batting practice. then when there is a runner on third with one out he tries to pull a pitch like that.

Looks like they gave up in the bottom of the ninth too.

 

We better get something started because Chicago is showing no signs of letting up.