4/29/07 Brewers (Vargas) @ Astros (Williams): 1:05 PM CDT

[tookej]

Prince was caught stealing? I just saw the notes on gameday. Was he really trying to steal or did he just get caught to far off base?

[bacon06]

Mench would have been called a large headed, purple lipstick wearing, purse carrier.

[jloos19]

Villanueva staying in? Not actually a terrible idea, giving Turnbow another day off always is a good thing.

[whizkid]

If Vargas pitched like crap today, then there are going to be alot of angry people for just about every brewer game.

 

If you're telling me just about every game the pitcher will load the bases 3 innings in a row, yes, I will be angry. Pitchers can't live like that.

[adamb100]

There goes the shutout.

[endaround]

Have no idea what is going on here. Why no Shouse?

[Vgmastr]

Why wouldn't you just start the inning with Turnbow? Or at least bring in Shouse to face Lamb?

[Team Canada]

And now he comes out anyway. I guess Ned wanted to try and get three out of him, but if he was ready to lift him at the first hit, I'm not sure there was a point.

[MrAgro]

he tried to steal

[endaround]

I assumed he wanted to leave him in so Shouse could get the PHitter. But apparently not.

[Brewers77]

Brewers77, you didn't even watch those 5 innings, so you have no idea what it was like dealing with the bases loaded 3 straight innings.

 

How do you know? I never said that. I said I wanted to read the thread. He got in some jams. He worked out of it. In most games there are going to be 2 or 3 runners on in some inning. The game is usually decided by what is done in these innings.

 

So now we rate a guy and what "could have" happened? He pitched ok today and maybe got lucky. Trying to say he was bad is just wrong.

[Oldcity]

Bad feeling about this for some reason...

[Team Canada]

In most games there are going to be 2 or 3 runners on in some inning.

 

Some inning?? That's a convenient understatement, and does not begin to describe the performance today.

[brettac1]

Nine baserunners and 98 pitches in 5 innings is the definition of a bad start.

[endaround]

No saying he was bad is describing what happened. Pretending that 10 baserunners in 5 innings is decent is wrong

[EinhornIsFinkle]

Quote:

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Trying to say he was bad is just wrong.

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He was beyond bad. It was the worst scoreless 5 innings I have ever heard.

[Oldcity]

Battling back!

[And That]

Trying to say he was bad is just wrong.

 

No, that's a subjective opinion. So is saying that's wrong. Wait, you're allowing us to voice our opinions again? Yay!

[Ennder]

He did get pinched some and the defense was shoddy (granted one of the bad plays was by him). He didn't give up any HR's which is his big problem, he wasn't very hittable. He just had some location issues which aren't that normal for him.

 

I can't say it was a bad start but it certainly wasn't a good one either.

[bacon06]

How can it be a bad start if he didn't give up any runs?

[bucksman4]

He was beyond bad. It was the worst scoreless 5 innings I have ever heard.

 

Some of the same people who critique Vargas' 0 runs given up and label it as a 'bad' outing will be the same people who will defend our 'ace' Sheets when he gives up 6 runs (but he gets no run support! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[Ennder]

Giving up runs is being too result oriented.

 

If a pitcher goes out and doesn't K anyone, walks 7 and gives up 7 hits in 5 innings but somehow manages to not give up any runs its still a horrible start because 99% of the time he gets completely destroyed in a start like that.

 

Now Vargas only gave up 4 hits and he K'd 5, if he only say walks 3 instead of 5 people would be saying it was a pretty good start so for my money 2 extra walks doesn't make it bad, just not good.

[Team Canada]

How can it be a bad start if he didn't give up any runs?

 

 

Is that like saying a pitcher with a 12-0 record is awesome if they win every game 10-9?

[And That]

Some of the same people who critique Vargas' 0 runs given up and label it as a 'bad' outing will be the same people who will defend our 'ace' Sheets when he gives up 6 runs

 

And some won't. Your point?

[bacon06]

Is that like saying a pitcher with a 12-0 record is awesome if they win every game 10-9?

 

No it's not because, for one, a pitcher's win/loss record is hardly ever indicative of how good the pitcher is. Vargas had his troubles but he still kept his team in the position to win the game. What's bad about that?