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Ridiculous trade offers


panthernick

I pulled this from MLB.com. This sounds like a couple of guys in my fantasy league may have actually gotten jobs as GMs in major league baseball. This just blows my mind.

 

"One team actually called and said, 'We like [Yovani] Gallardo and [Ryan] Braun,' " Attanasio said with a laugh. "Well, we like them, too. Last year we had a GM call Doug, and in return for one of their Triple-A players, they asked for Prince [Fielder]. I mean, we're just not going to do that."

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Sure, publicly Mark laughs at these offers, as he should.

 

As a Brewer fan, perhaps I'm a bit sensitive about this, but Doug Melvin has been a successful General Manager for years now. He brought a winner to Texas, which hadn't happened before him nor after. He's got a perennially-moribund small market franchise like the Brewers in first place, on a comparatively modest budget.

 

He's legit, and so are the Brewers.

 

But apparently there are still some misguided GMs out there, who aren't paying attention to the fact that the Seligs' Mickey Mouse operation is no longer around here, and we're serious about winning. Hell, odds are, whoever the GM was, he's running a team that's we're ahead of, in the standings.

 

It was probably someone from a team we haven't faced this year. But I can surmise who it could have been. A general manager from an AL team, who hasn't faced us and who perhaps still perceives Milwaukee as a backwater place. An uninformed, (possibly unqualified?) GM, who would tend to look down on us.

 

Did at least one of those phone calls come from area code 212?

"So if this fruit's a Brewer's fan, his ass gotta be from Wisconsin...(or Chicago)."
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I dont see why that quote would lead people to think the Brewers won't deal. It's just stupid to think the Brewers are going to give up their studs, who are already playing at a really high level, and who are dirt cheap with a lot of contract left. It's pie in the sky talk right now, and obviously Melvin isn't dumb enough for that. The Brewers young infielders are pretty much untouchable, as well as Gallardo and Villanueva. You could make an argument for unloading Hart or Weeks, but their trade value wouldnt be high enough to make it worthwhile and I personally wouldnt do either for a rental.

 

I'm sure there will be better options as we near the deadline and teams are trying to recover money.

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Great perspective, Geno! I see how you became Chief Cynic (although I'd sure like to vie for Chief Cynic 2!).

 

Those are the types of calls that keep teams from being trading partners - ever. Tell me Doug doesn't remember exactly who throws around crazy ideas - do you think that team will be at the top of his list next time he's looking around? As he has pointed out in the past, you always look for deals that at least satisfy both teams. I use "satisfy" rather than "benefit" because you can't always guarantee that. His Sexson trade is a great example (and there are others) where the other team at least felt satisfied with the deal. It may have ultimately worked out in our favor, but it could have just as easily gone the other way. I believe many people thought Sexson was going to be huge in Arizona for a number of years, but it just didn't work out that way. Same with the opposite - Overbay really never did anything but be a good prospect and he happened to live up to those expectations with us. But both teams were satisfied. Neither side tried to trade a AA player for Prince Fielder!!

 

We should be a bit offended by those few GMs, but DM will make them pay in the end.

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Ridiculous trade offers

 

I thought the Dunn for Wise and Gwynn offer was pretty ridiculous, but I hoped it was true.

 

I think it's funny people would be asking about players like Prince for a minor leaguer, because of all of the arby time our young kids have left. It's not even comparable to Sexson, because we had to trade him (or spend money, which wasn't going to happen).

 

Geno, you're probably right about the 212 thing, but I've seen posters here say we should we should contact NY about Hughes, so it goes both ways http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

 

~Bill Walsh

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I don't think it's benficial for Mark A. to be talking about it now though. I have to wonder if it's common to throw out lowball offers to start just to gauge interest. No idea how these things get started. It is also possible someone was offering a very high level AAA player in return with the thought that Fielder was more of a DH than a 1st baseman. Ryan Braun for Prince wouldn't seem out of the range of possibilities right now would it?

I don't think Melvin would treat any GM differantly if they threw out stupid trade offers. All that would do is limit his trade partners. He probably just files that away and has a lower opinion of the guy. It may mean he treats them differantly in trade negotiations but I doubt it would stop him from getting the best deal he can. In fact he may even be more apt to deal with them. If they don't scout well they may overpay for someone who has failure written all over them. Ben Hendrickson for a servicable middle of the roataion starter type trade happens when people look at numbers without knowing how they got them.

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Quote:
A general manager from an AL team, who hasn't faced us and who perhaps still perceives Milwaukee as a backwater place. An uninformed, (possibly unqualified?) GM, who would tend to look down on us.

Mike Flanagan come on down!

 

Great post Geno! The Orioles are an organization that comes to mind for making ridiculous offers. They think they are smarter than everyone--they don't realize guys like Melvin are laughing at them, not with them.

 

This topic also reminds me of the rumor Gammons invented a few years back that Sheets was going to Boston. A little wishful thinking Peter?

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the real question, assuming this story is even true, is what Doug Melvin did in response to those requests? Did he calmly and politely decline or did he laugh uncontrollably and just hang up the phone?

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P.I.T.C.H. LEAGUE CHAMPION 1989, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2006, 2007, 2011 (finally won another one)

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Did he calmly and politely decline or did he laugh uncontrollably and just hang up the phone?

 

I suspect that they could have made reasonable offers. It is after all, a GMs job to see what players are on the market, and who is untouchable, and who could be pried away. Plus I am sure Geno is on to something -- at some point some GM is going to assume that the Brewers are going to have a salary dump/fire sale.

 

My guess is that DM has been on that other end of the phone on more than one occasion. If we give credit (as we should) for DM pulling off ridiculous trades that benefit the Brewers, -- we should probably realize that ridiculous trades are the fruit of ridiculous offers.

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I am not saying I agree with the idea of making ridiculous offers -- it seems kind of insulting -- but you could make the argument that it's a sound (and common) negotiating strategy. You start with something pretty extreme and then give ground until you've reached something more reasonable.
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Oh, I agree RU.

 

You have to start with your own best-case trade scenario, and work your way downward toward the middle from there. That's common sense.

 

But if you start out pitching to a fellow GM with something as assinine and downright insulting as Prince for a AAA player (even if it's a Triple-A hitter whose MLB-Equivalent formula points to a .900 OPS? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif ), you'll be lucky if Doug doesn't just wet 'em on the spot, and hang up on you as he ducks into the men's room.

 

I just look at which teams we DON'T ever trade with (aside from division rivals, whom I don't expect any friendly dealings to go on with), and try to unravel who the guilty party could be.

 

Hmmm. The most recent Brewers/Yankee deal? I could be wrong, but Mike Hegan, anyone?

"So if this fruit's a Brewer's fan, his ass gotta be from Wisconsin...(or Chicago)."
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Quote:
The most recent Brewers/Yankee deal? I could be wrong, but Mike Hegan, anyone?

a little more recent than that.

 

pat listach and graeme lloyd for gerald williams and bob wickman on 23 august 1996. listach may or may not have been sent back as damaged goods . . . i don't remember.

 

considering that wickman got us sexson, i'd rank it as one of the most important trades in brewers history.

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"considering that wickman got us sexson, i'd rank it as one of the most important trades in brewers history. "

 

Octagon, I guess we just don't look at that the same way, which is cool...

 

To me, a trade (except in those rare instances when the player in question is flipped elsewhere within hours, and never even gets to wear your uniform) is a standalone, more isolated occurence. You may not agree, but when we got Richie, at that time, perhaps 8 contenders needed a closer like Wick. Maybe 10, whatever. How many, again, at that time, sustained major injuries to their starting first baseman? Which teams faced losing their top slugger to injury or free agency back then? Whcih teams were hemorraging money at the time and couldn't add payroll? Which teams had a nepotistic ownership in place, with incompetents in power, lining their pockets with profits under the guide of "retiring debt" and couldn't be counted on to try and field a competitive team? All these various factors, which occurred in a snapshot in time, shaped the market the day we made the deal for Richie.

 

The next week, the market changed, and perhaps we couldn't have acquired Richie. And when we inevitably dumped his salary (regardless of what we acquired for him from Arizona), I think it's inaccurate to ignore so many outside influences and say we traded Graeme Lloyd and Pat Listach for Gabe Gross, Zach Jack and Dave Boosh.

"So if this fruit's a Brewer's fan, his ass gotta be from Wisconsin...(or Chicago)."
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Weren't the Yankee's also complaining about Lloyd being damaged good as well? IIRC he had a buthcer job done on his elbow prior to becomeing a pro so the Brewers used him very carefully. When the Yanks got him they overused him and he ran into trouble. King George whined about it but the Brewers had fully disclosed his history so they were screwed. Then Lloyd helped bail them out of a boat load of trouble in a pivital game in the WS and he became George's favorite pet.
There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.
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