JJ Hardy to Twins for Carlos Gomez

[olliegjw]

The people defending this trade need to factor in what this does to the lineup. Replacing Hardy and Cameron with Escobar and Gomez means we lose major power and OBP ability. As of now our lineup is awful past the 5 hole. I really question how we are gonna be even average offensively even with Braun and Fielder in the lineup.

Loss of power, yes. Loss of OBP, not as much. Kendall had an OBP 30 points higher than Hardy last year. Cameron will most likely have a decline at his age as well. Their combined OBP last year was about .640. That is hardly anything special.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Replace Corey Hart and Kendall with better hitters?

I fully expect Kendall to be back and I doubt they get anyone better than Hart. The ramifications of this trade are far reaching. Once we trade Gamel we will have most likely cemented ourselves with a bad lineup. With the lack of good shortstops out there I am shocked that the bets Melvin thought he could do was a player without power or OBP ability. Speed is worthless when you have trouble reaching base and have a manager that doesnt want to run. Yes the defense is a plus but at what cost to our lineup?

[bjkrautk]

In retrospect, I almost wonder if the Brewers would have been better off making the Mekly Cabrera / Cameron swap last off-season. Cabrera isn't as good as Gomez defensively, and has more ML service time....but Cabrera has been about 40 points higher in OBP over his career to-date, and is a switch hitter. Both players had disappointing seasons at age 23. Plus, had the Brewers made that swap, they'd still have Hardy to trade....for whatever else was on the table.

 

Acquiring someone with even more range than Cameron makes me wonder whether Corey Hart is a non-tender candidate. Two straight years of ~ .750 OPS in a corner outfield position should be replaceable....and may have to be given the Escobar/Gomez/Catcher/pitcher bottom of the lineup. The Brewers can get by with less speed in right field with Gomez covering the alleys for the next few seasons. I think the talk of a glut of non-tenders is a sign that MLB salaries may be facing a correction this year (for the 'middle class' player, not the John Lackeys of the world). Is Hart's production really worth $3+ million? Of course, that decision may hinge on what the Brewers do with Felipe Lopez, and how healthy they expect Rickie Weeks to be by opening day.

[Never Outhustled]

I think trades like this prove that only people on the internet use WAR. Baseball GMs clearly don't.

Melvin has referenced it before, and the Red Sox use their own version. Baseball people clearly respect similar stats.

 

This deal was made much like the Kevin Mench debacle. Melvin has simply mis-projected a player, and the results will severely hurt our team.

[Oldcity]

Our GM is clearing salary so he can buy FA pitchers. FA pitchers, historically, are terrible investments. Doug Melvin will be unemployed by this time next year. This is the definitive move of his tenure here. Clearly the wrong direction. He has completed wasted everything that Jack Z created here.

 

THIS is the definitive move of Melvin's Brewer tenure? J.J. Hardy for Carlos Gomez? Funny, I would have thought the CC deal might have landed that distinction. Teams weren't going to give up more than a 4/5 pitcher for Hardy. We don't need those. We did need a replacement for Cameron. Melvin will likely sign one free agent starter, but why does this necessarily prove he's only going to be FAs? Maybe he packages Gamel and Salome for an established starter who's making a decent amount of money? You can't say you know he'll get only FAs out of this.

[steve267268]

Our GM is clearing salary so he can buy FA pitchers. FA pitchers, historically, are terrible investments. Doug Melvin will be unemployed by this time next year. This is the definitive move of his tenure here. Clearly the wrong direction. He has completed wasted everything that Jack Z created here.

Fine. So let us never try to get pitching through free agency. We'll just ask other teams if they will give us a few of their picks so drafting has a better chance of panning out for us.

 

My oh my, some of you people...

 

How much value do you think Hardy had? He is a lifetime .260, feast or famine, hitter. Guess who else is.... Mike Cameron! (you're right, he's a lifetime .250 hitter). Although i have a lot of respect for both players as human beings, I am glad that DM has decided to purge these two. Cameron is good on defense but he is not nearly what he used to be. Back to Hardy, his range was awful, and if you put the tv on mute you will see that his arm isn't as strong as BA says it is.

 

Gone are the days of being amongst the league leaders in team homeruns, but something tells me that this will lead to more wins.

 

I like it, you don't have to.

[homer]

Melvin has referenced it before, and the Red Sox use their own version. Baseball people clearly respect similar stats.

 

This deal was made much like the Kevin Mench debacle. Melvin has simply mis-projected a player, and the results will severely hurt our team.

Melvin uses both stats and scouting reports....unlike some people.

[Oldcity]

Rather have kept Hardy up all of least year and gotten draft picks after 2010.

 

And if Hardy had another year like this one, you couldn't even offer him arbitration because he'd be forced to take it. Nobody would have forfeited picks to sign him.

[endaround]

Rather have kept Hardy up all of least year and gotten draft picks after 2010.

 

And if Hardy had another year like this one, you couldn't even offer him arbitration because he'd be forced to take it. Nobody would have forfeited picks to sign him.

 

Or he could rebound, lead the Brewers to the playoffs and get a draft pick. At worst he saves a full year of service time for Escobar during Escobar's prime.

[Oldcity]

So then where does the pitching come from? And if he rebounded, you would have wanted that extra year before free agency.

[The Ignitor]

I'm fairly neutral on this trade. I could see it working or failing.

 

But I'm shocked by the sky is falling attitude here. I think part of it comes from the delusional belief that JJ Hardy could have netted someone like Clay Bucholz. That was NEVER going to happen. This is not fantasy baseball.

[lukevan]

I had mostly given up hope that Hardy was going to net any significant pitching help. This way, we get an excellent defender in CF to replace Cameron and save a bunch of money that we can use in a trade/FA acquisition of a pitcher.

Or you can trade Hart+ for Vasquez and sign a corner outfielder that will produce offensively. I think as is, our lineup takes a bit of hit, but not as big as you might think. I think Melvin plans to upgrade one other position yet this offseason, maybe two (Kendall, Hart).

[Never Outhustled]

Fine. So let us never try to get pitching through free agency. We'll just ask other teams if they will give us a few of their picks so drafting has a better chance of panning out for us.

 

My oh my, some of you people

Or we could do like so many other teams do, and trade for pitching.

 

 

 

Back to Hardy, his range was awful,

he converts more outs than just about all Ss's including Escobar. he has extremely quick hands and no wasted motion. Statistical analysis backs up this point time and again. Hardy had great range.

[olliegjw]

Hardy had great range.

A shortstop who could lose a footrace to Johnny Estrada, by definition, does not have great range.

[Ennder]

So they traded JJ for......Tony Gwynn Jr?

Gomez is better defensively than Gwynn and has some upside at least. I'm not a huge fan of the trade but Gomez is better than Gwynn.

[splitterpfj]

Gomez has a lot of physical talent, so of course he could develop into a much better player than he's been....but this man is absolutely not prepared to be a leadoff hitter right now.

[ELCABALLO45]

Gomez has a lot of physical talent, so of course he could develop into a much better player than he's been....but this man is absolutely not prepared to be a leadoff hitter right now.

Exactly.

 

However, I don't want him to bat 8th either as well. I don't want to waste his speed in the 8th spot.

[brewmann04]

i would rather give the Money to Prince than to a pitcher like Lackey,maybe Melvin looking to make an impact sign Mulder amd then Trade Gamel and Salome in a blockbuster for a Pitcher.

[The Truth]

I could see Gomez batting 9th with the pitcher 8th. Weeks still leading off. Escobar batting 7th. Gerut probably figures into playing CF in a loose platoon situation

 

Eventually Escobar will be the lead-off guy and Weeks (if he can stay healthy that is) will be in a more natural position deeper in the lineup

 

We know the Brewers will be getting at least 2 new starting pitchers. One likely a free agent (I'm still guessing Washburn). I like the idea of trading Hart plus prospects for pitching. Wondering who we might look at as a free agent corner outfielder?

[thebruce44]

I didn't read all the way through here, but people who think we are giving up a lot of offense (especially OPS) need to look at what JJ and Cam did last year vs. what Escobar and Gomez will do this year. Cam and JJ combinded for around a 330 OBP (mostly from Cam). Escobar and Gomez are capable of something similar and both players have a lot of upside. Factor in the cost savings, and while I don't like the trade, I don't hate it either.

[Oldcity]

Well, he won't hit eighth because that's probably reserved for Escobar. You can see why Kendall will have no spot here. Give the job to Lucroy and use the Kendall money elsewhere.

[battlekow]

Jesus.

 

I agree with the following sentiments: Terrible trade; shouldn't have dealt Hardy at all if this is the best they could get in return; this is the beginning of the end for Melvin and the current window of success for the Brewers.

[thebruce44]

I think trades like this prove that only people on the internet use WAR. Baseball GMs clearly don't.

Melvin has referenced it before, and the Red Sox use their own version. Baseball people clearly respect similar stats.

 

This deal was made much like the Kevin Mench debacle. Melvin has simply mis-projected a player, and the results will severely hurt our team.

 

Wow, so you can already say that Melvin has mis-projected Gomez for this year.

 

Since you can see the future maybe you should be the GM.

[chuckiehacks]

I'm warming to the potential this trade brings.

 

However, how can people still think that Corey Hart will bring back pitching? Even Hart+, unless the + is Gamel, which I would describe as Gamel +.

[ELCABALLO45]

Im saying this right now, Escobar and Gomez are going to be so fun to watch together. Not just on the field either. They both are kinda "out" there with their own personallitys