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Syndergaard and deGrom


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https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/what-mets-and-yankees-would-have-to-swallow-for-syndergaard-or-degrom-deal/

 

I would empty the system for Syndergaard. Under contract for 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. I would feel very confident in the playoffs with Syndergaard as our Game 1 starter.

 

I'd give Hiura and Burnes/Peralta (or both). They'd probably ask for Hader, though.

 

But yeah, they are going to ask for the moon, and would likely get it. Cost would be enormous, but getting a guy like Syndergaard would make the team the immediate favorite in the NL.

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https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/what-mets-and-yankees-would-have-to-swallow-for-syndergaard-or-degrom-deal/

 

I would empty the system for Syndergaard. Under contract for 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. I would feel very confident in the playoffs with Syndergaard as our Game 1 starter.

 

I'd give Hiura and Burnes/Peralta (or both). They'd probably ask for Hader, though.

 

But yeah, they are going to ask for the moon, and would likely get it. Cost would be enormous, but getting a guy like Syndergaard would make the team the immediate favorite in the NL.

Now that would cause me some pause. However, if they are truly rebuilding, I doubt they want a reliever on the MLB roster. I would assume it would be Hiura, Burnes, Peralta and our second best hitting prospect in their eyes.

 

I would do it without hesitating.

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https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/what-mets-and-yankees-would-have-to-swallow-for-syndergaard-or-degrom-deal/

 

I would empty the system for Syndergaard. Under contract for 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. I would feel very confident in the playoffs with Syndergaard as our Game 1 starter.

 

I'd give Hiura and Burnes/Peralta (or both). They'd probably ask for Hader, though.

 

But yeah, they are going to ask for the moon, and would likely get it. Cost would be enormous, but getting a guy like Syndergaard would make the team the immediate favorite in the NL.

Now that would cause me some pause. However, if they are truly rebuilding, I doubt they want a reliever on the MLB roster. I would assume it would be Hiura, Burnes, Peralta and our second best hitting prospect in their eyes.

 

I would do it without hesitating.

 

Hader is young enough (and cheap enough for the next several years) to be a major value to a rebuilding team. I can't see the Brewers trading major league contributors ... but, the last time they traded for someone of this magnitude (Greinke), MLB talent (Cain, Escobar) was part of the return. A team with the financial resources of the Mets may be looking at a short turn-around with a rebuild, which would make guys like Hader and Arcia possible targets.

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Well if you take Hader off the table it’s pretty problematic as we don’t have any really elite prospects. Not sure what else on the MLB team you would sacrifice. If another team really values Arcia he is an option, but I don’t think his value is very high these days.

 

Noah Syndergaard is crazy good and crazy controllable. If the Mets put him on the market (highly doubtful to impossible) I’d think you are looking at:

 

Orlando Arcia

Keston Hiura

Freddy Peralta

Corbin Burnes

 

That would be the minimum I would think. Syndergaard is similar to Chris Sale and he commanded arguably the best prospect in baseball, another elite prospect, and two other solid prospects. We don’t have anything close to Moncada and honestly I think they would demand an elite potential guy that I’m just not sure we can offer. I’m not sure where to even peg Arcia’s trade value and Burnes has been pretty bad. We would essentially be offering quantity over quality.

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Syndergaard and deGrom are both the type of franchise type pitchers that you really don't spare any expense for, if they are available. Everyone would be on the table. They aren't just needle movers ... they bury the needle.

 

You are right Plush that the Brewers may not have the horses to get a deal done, especially if teams like the Nationals or Braves make their (in my opinion) overhyped top prospects available. The Yankees have a bunch of overhyped youngsters they can make available as well.

 

What the Brewers would be able to offer, though, is quantity and value. They showed they are willing to pony up in their offseason Yelich deal, while teams like the Nats and Braves haven't shown that they are willing to loosen their grip on their prospects. So the Brewers have that going for them.

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Well if you take Hader off the table it’s pretty problematic as we don’t have any really elite prospects. Not sure what else on the MLB team you would sacrifice. If another team really values Arcia he is an option, but I don’t think his value is very high these days.

 

Noah Syndergaard is crazy good and crazy controllable. If the Mets put him on the market (highly doubtful to impossible) I’d think you are looking at:

 

Orlando Arcia

Keston Hiura

Freddy Peralta

Corbin Burnes

 

That would be the minimum I would think. Syndergaard is similar to Chris Sale and he commanded arguably the best prospect in baseball, another elite prospect, and two other solid prospects. We don’t have anything close to Moncada and honestly I think they would demand an elite potential guy that I’m just not sure we can offer. I’m not sure where to even peg Arcia’s trade value and Burnes has been pretty bad. We would essentially be offering quantity over quality.

 

I agree with some of this, but Burnes has not been 'pretty bad.' He has a 3.25 road ERA which is much more telling of how he has performed in neutral conditions.

 

Its Colorado Springs. Josh Hader is pretty much unhittable and yet his numbers in Colorado Springs last year were also very ugly.

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Syndergaard and deGrom are both the type of franchise type pitchers that you really don't spare any expense for, if they are available. Everyone would be on the table. They aren't just needle movers ... they bury the needle.

 

Amen. Everyone would be on the table except maybe Yelich. I truly would empty the farm for Syndergaard.

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No concern for the history of injuries for both of them?

 

I own both on 3 fantasy keeper teams (yup, both on 3 separate teams) and they routinely miss time on the DL pretty much every season.

 

I'm not saying that I wouldn't pay up for one of them, but the injury stuff is always concerning to me.

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Syndergaard and deGrom are both the type of franchise type pitchers that you really don't spare any expense for, if they are available. Everyone would be on the table. They aren't just needle movers ... they bury the needle.

 

Amen. Everyone would be on the table except maybe Yelich. I truly would empty the farm for Syndergaard.

 

So you would give up Aguilar, Shaw, Hader, Taylor Williams, and Arcia (for example)?

 

Just going by your assertion that everyone besides Yelich is on the table. I would love Syndergaard but I'd be a lot more cautious than that. If Syndergaard and deGrom were more important than what we already have we'd be the ones selling assets and the Mets would be the ones contending instead of struggling like they are.

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Syndergaard is definitely talented enough to warrant including Hader in the trade, especially given the contract. There are very very few guys that you even put Hader in the conversation for, but Syndergaard is one. I think if I gave up Hader, I would not give up Hiura. I don't think Syndergaard is going anywhere to be honest, not for a couple more years at least.
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Syndergaard and deGrom are both the type of franchise type pitchers that you really don't spare any expense for, if they are available. Everyone would be on the table. They aren't just needle movers ... they bury the needle.

 

Amen. Everyone would be on the table except maybe Yelich. I truly would empty the farm for Syndergaard.

 

So you would give up Aguilar, Shaw, Hader, Taylor Williams, and Arcia (for example)?

 

Just going by your assertion that everyone besides Yelich is on the table. I would love Syndergaard but I'd be a lot more cautious than that. If Syndergaard and deGrom were more important than what we already have we'd be the ones selling assets and the Mets would be the ones contending instead of struggling like they are.

 

Come on, you have to be reasonable as well. I think most anyone can see the Brewers are in a better position to contend than the Mets, who are made up of Syndergaard, deGrom and a bunch of spare parts.

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Unreasonable? That's probably around the lines of what they would be looking for if they were seeking an MLB ready package rather than prospects.

 

Hader and Shaw clearly have a ton of value but the other 3 have debatable levels of trade value.

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Unreasonable? That's probably around the lines of what they would be looking for if they were seeking an MLB ready package rather than prospects.

 

Hader and Shaw clearly have a ton of value but the other 3 have debatable levels of trade value.

 

I think it is probably reasonable from the Mets' perspective, but not the Brewers', given Syndergaard or deGrom would be acquired in an attempt to "go for it" this year and in subsequent years. It wouldn't surprise me to see a return of both MLB-ready talent and high-end prospects, though.

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Both are phenomenal pitchers, better than anything we have now or in recent years but I'm passing on both. Injury histories for both and neither do anything to help our pathetic offense. In fact, they would only hurt it since I'm sure a few current or soon to be MLB hitters would be included in the trade. I'm not giving up 3 to 4 very good/potential to be very good major leaguers for 1 guy that is only going to play every 5 days and very likely to be injured at some point.
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There is no way I would empty the farm for a SP. Brewers simply can't afford to take a risk like that, one injury away from being a disaster of a move. This whole ace pitcher thing is not worth chasing. You keep developing players and hope you stumble into one. But it is not the only way to win the WS, and you're still far from guaranteed winning one if you have an ace.

 

Mets have both these guys and look at how they're struggling. Tells you it takes far more than an ace or even two to win it all.

 

Someone mentioned earlier this move would make the Brewers the favorite in the NL. No, it would not.

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Id rather they slightly overpay for machado and add the premium bat to the lineup it desperately needs, than have to shell out what it would take to land either degrom or thor. Brewers have to find a consistent offense before even thinking of making a significant move for starting pitching.
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Id rather they slightly overpay for machado and add the premium bat to the lineup it desperately needs, than have to shell out what it would take to land either degrom or thor. Brewers have to find a consistent offense before even thinking of making a significant move for starting pitching.

 

Agree. I'm not giving up tons of young controllable talent for 1 player. Too much risk involved.

 

Stick to the plan.

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To be confident that we will win every 5th & have a starting pitcher to look forward to... unload. Guessing Peralta, Burnes, Hiura, Lutz for Thor. He is legit as that is under control for pretty long time. Once Jimmy is back, if Woodruff comes back around, and Ortiz and/or Z. Brown can keep developing. We will live. We have OFs in system so losing Lutz won’t kill. Hiura stings a bit since. Hope Dubon comes back to where he was before ACL went.

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To be confident that we will win every 5th & have a starting pitcher to look forward to... unload. Guessing Peralta, Burnes, Hiura, Lutz for Thor. He is legit as that is under control for pretty long time. Once Jimmy is back, if Woodruff comes back around, and Ortiz and/or Z. Brown can keep developing. We will live. We have OFs in system so losing Lutz won’t kill. Hiura stings a bit since. Hope Dubon comes back to where he was before ACL went.

 

Still don't think that's enough. Just not a good enough headliner. Its similar to the Yelich package in total value. I think it would take more than that for Noah.

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Just about every team in baseball would be interested in Syndergaard or deGrom. The problem with going after either is that there are quite a few teams with a greater volume of high-end prospect currency. I think at least two top 50-ish prospects would be a minimum to even begin having a conversation with the Mets for either pitcher, and for Syndergaard that probably includes a top 10 caliber prospect.

 

To put this in perspective below are teams with multiple prospects ranked within the top 60 of Baseball America’s 2018 midseason update. The Brewers had one prospect ranked in this range, Keston Hiura at #43.

 

Braves - Ronald Acuna Jr., Luiz Gohara, Mike Soroka, Austin Riley, Kyle Wright, Ian Anderson, Kolby Allard

 

Padres - Fernando Tatis Jr., MacKenzie Gore, Luis Urias, Michel Baez, Cal Quantrill, Adrian Morejon (plus two more prospects ranked between 61-100)

 

Rays - Willy Adames, Brent Honeywell, Brendan McKay, Jesus Sanchez, Jake Bauers (plus two more prospects ranked between 61-100)

 

White Sox - Eloy Jimenez, Michael Kopech, Alec Hansen, Luis Robert (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

Blue Jays - Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette, Anthony Alford (plus three more prospects ranked between 61-100)

 

Reds - Nick Senzel, Taylor Trammell, Hunter Greene

 

Astros - Forrest Whitley, Kyle Tucker, Yordan Alvarez (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

Yankees - Gleyber Torres, Justus Sheffield, Estevan Florial (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

A’s - Jesus Luzardo, A.J. Puk, Franklin Barreto (plus two more prospects ranked between 61-100)

 

Rangers - Willie Calhoun, Leody Taveras, Julio Pablo Martinez

 

Nationals - Juan Soto, Victor Robles (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

Indians - Francisco Mejia, Triston McKenzie (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

Rockies - Brendan Rodgers, Ryan McMahon

 

Dodgers - Keibert Ruiz, Alex Verdugo (plus three more prospects ranked between 61-100)

 

Pirates - Mitch Keller, Austin Meadows (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

Tigers - Franklin Perez, Alex Faedo (plus two more prospects ranked between 61-100)

 

Orioles - Austin Hays, Chance Sisco (plus one more prospect ranked between 61-100)

 

Outside of the top 60 for the Brewers were Corbin Burnes ranked #69 and Freddy Peralta at #97.

 

I know the prospect rankings used are subjective, but among the actual prospects listed for each team imagine trying to put together a package to compete against the Braves, Astros, Yankees, Indians, Dodgers, or Nationals for either Syndergaard or deGrom. If any of those teams is motivated to acquire either pitcher it isn’t difficult to see how they could assemble a more appealing prospect package than the Brewers. Even teams like the Angels and Twins who aren’t on the list above could easily put together comparable (if not slightly better) prospect packages to the Brewers.

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