Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[jerichoholicninja]

Schoop hasn't been a better offensive player than Villar in his career so not sure why you would expect him to be now. He is a much better defensive 2B and to be honest a better defensive SS most likely. That is where the value is coming if it comes.

 

Schoop has a higher career OPS and OPS+ than Villar. And Villar's career numbers are all propped up by his excellent 2016 season. I won't say definitively that Schoop has been the better hitter but to say Villar has been better is not correct at all.

 

Cause Schoop’s career OPS+ isn’t propped up by his one good season (2017) either.

 

OPS+

Villar, Schoop

2013: 79, 124 (15 PA's)

2014: 75, 65

2015: 109, 111

2016: 117, 98

2017: 72, 122

2018: 91, 90

Career: 93, 99

 

There's the numbers for all to see. They both have had up and down careers, which is why I said neither is definitively better than the other, and saying Villar has been the better hitter in his career is not true.

[Ennder]

I said offensive player, not hitter. Villar's has produced a lot more value for his career on the bases than Schoop has. Their season to season numbers both jump all over the place but they have been relatively close in overall offensive value over their times in the majors. The big separation happens on the defense.

[josh]

Orioles called up Ortiz today:

[jerichoholicninja]

Says a lot about how crappy the Orioles situation is. Even if this was a lost season for us, there was no way Ortiz was coming to Milwaukee this year.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Orioles called up Ortiz today:

 

Seems like a showcase month to flip him this offseason before the orioles injure him. There was no way Ortiz would have reached milwaukee for 2+ years.

 

That said, I actually hope he does well!

[tigerbrew]

Schoop is starting to heat up, so far in month of Sept...

 

AVG: .429

OBP: .444

SLG: .571

 

Hope he will hit this month like he did in July...

 

AVG: .360

OBP: .356

SLG: .700

[TooLiveBrew]

Schoop is starting to heat up, so far in month of Sept...

 

AVG: .429

OBP: .444

SLG: .571

 

Hope he will hit this month like he did in July...

 

AVG: .360

OBP: .356

SLG: .700

After his first 3 games with the Crew (where he went a combined 0-12), his line with us is .265/.320/.441/.761. Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar or Arcia, depending on who he's replaced in the lineup on any given day.

 

He's hit well really since they came back home after the mid-August ATL-CHC-STL road trip. .323/.405/.645/1.051 since Aug. 20th. Need him to stay hot!

[tmwiese55]

Agree, let's start playing him more consistently and hope for a hot streak and a bunch of ding dongs.

[KeithStone53151]

Not looking to rehash this trade, I found this video quite something. That is Villar tagging from 1st to 2nd fyi...

 

[StearnsFTW]

Not looking to rehash this trade, I found this video quite something. That is Villar tagging from 1st to 2nd fyi...

 

 

Typical heads-up base running by JV.

[KeithStone53151]

Not looking to rehash this trade, I found this video quite something. That is Villar tagging from 1st to 2nd fyi...

 

 

Typical heads-up base running by JV.

 

Clearly made a mistake going first to second, but quite the athletic play to avoid the tag and run back to first. And then heads up going back to 2nd as the other Oriole scores. In general it goes to show the good and bad of Villar all in one play.

[tmwiese55]

In his defense it was a really smart play by the OF to throw to 2nd instead. Many probably don't do that and he cruises right in and it's not even a question.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Not looking to rehash this trade, I found this video quite something. That is Villar tagging from 1st to 2nd fyi...

 

 

Listening to both announcers refer to him as Vi-LLar with the hard " L " sound was killing me on the inside.

[502 to Right]

Schoop is starting to heat up, so far in month of Sept...

 

After his first 3 games with the Crew (where he went a combined 0-12), his line with us is .265/.320/.441/.761. Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar or Arcia, depending on who he's replaced in the lineup on any given day.

 

 

He has an OPS+ of 69 as a Brewer and Villar is at 117 for the Orioles. How is Schoop an upgrade?

 

I really hate what Stearns did at the deadline.

[HiAndTight]

Schoop is starting to heat up, so far in month of Sept...

 

After his first 3 games with the Crew (where he went a combined 0-12), his line with us is .265/.320/.441/.761. Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar or Arcia, depending on who he's replaced in the lineup on any given day.

 

 

He has an OPS+ of 69 as a Brewer and Villar is at 117 for the Orioles. How is Schoop an upgrade?

 

I really hate what Stearns did at the deadline.

 

I think he was referring to what those players had done for the Brewers, not what they'd done playing for a team on pace to lose 110 games and playing without any pressure. Schoop was a 5+ WAR guy last year. Villar had fallen out of favor in Milwaukee. I like that move, especially with him going into a contract year next year and Keston likely being ready after that.

 

 

As a whole, I wasn't a huge fan of the trades myself. I liked adding Schoop as I think he's extremely talented and could have a big year for us next year and down the stretch...but I don't like moving Shaw to 2nd or playing Schoop at SS. And if you're gonna move Shaw, Arcia has to play. We're getting by with middle of the rotation starters and a really good pen. We can't give away runs. And it's not that I don't like Moose, it's just...he seems redundant with Shaw and as I said, I don't like Shaw playing 2nd.

[HiAndTight]

Orioles called up Ortiz today:

 

Seems like a showcase month to flip him this offseason before the orioles injure him. There was no way Ortiz would have reached milwaukee for 2+ years.

 

That said, I actually hope he does well!

 

 

He's an advanced pitcher who was pitching at the top levels of our minor league system, not a 19 year old in Helena. Not a clue what his future holds, but he's not some arm who was years away from being ready. I don't have a huge problem moving him for a guy with the upside of Schoop, but this seems to be the "now that we traded him, he was never gonna help us" type logic most fans seem to have after most trades.

[TooLiveBrew]

After his first 3 games with the Crew (where he went a combined 0-12), his line with us is .265/.320/.441/.761. Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar or Arcia, depending on who he's replaced in the lineup on any given day.

 

 

He has an OPS+ of 69 as a Brewer and Villar is at 117 for the Orioles. How is Schoop an upgrade?

 

I really hate what Stearns did at the deadline.

 

I think he was referring to what those players had done for the Brewers, not what they'd done playing for a team on pace to lose 110 games and playing without any pressure. Schoop was a 5+ WAR guy last year. Villar had fallen out of favor in Milwaukee. I like that move, especially with him going into a contract year next year and Keston likely being ready after that.

That's correct

[Outlander]

Late to the party here but the Home Run Schoop had against the Giants wasn't the first one he had against them. Back when the trade was made the highlight of him hitting a game winning three run home run against the Giants was always played from 2016. Probably his two biggest home runs in the big leagues are now against the Giants.

 

[shanedog19]

In addition to getting some big base hits lately, Schoop has played a very solid defensive 2B. I would end the experiment of Shaw at 2B going forward and give Schoop most of the playing time. I would start playing Shaw at 1B more, as Aguilar has been in a funk at the plate lately.

[bill hAll Star]

In addition to getting some big base hits lately, Schoop has played a very solid defensive 2B. I would end the experiment of Shaw at 2B going forward and give Schoop most of the playing time. I would start playing Shaw at 1B more, as Aguilar has been in a funk at the plate lately.

 

We've faced an incredibly long stretch of almost all LHP. Shaw's gonna see some 2B again soon when the righties are back. I'm not sure we're gonna have a lefty the rest of the season until maybe Detroit after today. Maybe Gomber against the Cards.

 

There are gonna be some Mous/Schoop/Shaw/Thames infields over the next few weeks.

[KeithStone53151]

In addition to getting some big base hits lately, Schoop has played a very solid defensive 2B. I would end the experiment of Shaw at 2B going forward and give Schoop most of the playing time. I would start playing Shaw at 1B more, as Aguilar has been in a funk at the plate lately.

 

We've faced an incredibly long stretch of almost all LHP. Shaw's gonna see some 2B again soon when the righties are back. I'm not sure we're gonna have a lefty the rest of the season until maybe Detroit after today. Maybe Gomber against the Cards.

 

There are gonna be some Mous/Schoop/Shaw/Thames infields over the next few weeks.

 

I'm excited to see some RHP, I think we match up better. Perez can get himself re-glued to the bench. I've beat this to death at this point, but it gives us an opportunity to give Aguilar some consecutive rest days.

[502 to Right]

That's correct

 

Even if you look only at Villar's production as a Brewer he was better than Schoop has been. Your statement "Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar" is not true about Schoop--especially when you view their production post-trade.

 

Schoop sucks and the Brewers wasted talent and made their team worse by trading for him.

[pacopete4]

That's correct

 

Even if you look only at Villar's production as a Brewer he was better than Schoop has been. Your statement "Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar" is not true about Schoop--especially when you view their production post-trade.

 

Schoop sucks and the Brewers wasted talent and made their team worse by trading for him.

 

No.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

That's correct

 

Even if you look only at Villar's production as a Brewer he was better than Schoop has been. Your statement "Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar" is not true about Schoop--especially when you view their production post-trade.

 

Schoop sucks and the Brewers wasted talent and made their team worse by trading for him.

 

You are viewing the move through a vacuum. It was obvious Counsell lost faith in Villar, and he wasn't going to get regular time moving forward. He needed a change of scenery. Don't you think Villar might feel less pressure hitting on a horrible team with a horrible lineup?

[Jenkins5]

That's correct

 

Even if you look only at Villar's production as a Brewer he was better than Schoop has been. Your statement "Not great, but certainly an upgrade over either Villar" is not true about Schoop--especially when you view their production post-trade.

 

Schoop sucks and the Brewers wasted talent and made their team worse by trading for him.

 

No.

 

Lol dude has like a .970 OPS since mid August doesn’t he? Doesn’t sound too awful