Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[Joseph Zarr]

And, here's the thing:

With those blatant drops, he still comes back and throws a TD late. And the packers are down 6. The negativity is just so nauseating and ill-placed - in Packers and Brewers threads. And, frankly, too predictable with fans. I invite everyone over-reacting in Brewers game threads and negatively casting aspersions at players to take deep breaths. And calm down. It's just ugly. We can do better than this.

[HarryDoyle]

Jordan Love is not good. About as inaccurate a thrower as I've ever seen. Time for Gute to admit he wasted a first round pick on him and find a different quarterback of the future.

[Joseph Zarr]

2 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Jordan Love is not good. About as inaccurate a thrower as I've ever seen. Time for Gute to admit he wasted a first round pick on him and find a different quarterback of the future.

Down 14-20. With a back-up WR corps. 2 INT's clearly on his WR's and TE's. Throws 2 beautiful TD's. And this is what we read here? I will never understand. This is a pre-season game. The first game. I find it utterly baffling. Beyond comprehension, honestly.

[HarryDoyle]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Down 14-20. With a back-up WR corps. 2 INT's clearly on his WR's and TE's. Throws 2 beautiful TD's. And this is what we read here? I will never understand. This is a pre-season game. The first game. I find it utterly baffling. Beyond comprehension, honestly.

He's also missed a ton of throws. Saying he is greatly improved is a major stretch. 

[Joseph Zarr]

Just now, HarryDoyle said:

He's also missed a ton of throws. Saying he is greatly improved is a major stretch. 

A ton. Interesting take. I'll just bow out. The emotionalism and over-reaction and negativity of fans is quite simply nauseating. People act as though they are happy to see mistakes and see players fail. I'll go down the road less traveled. Enjoy.

[HarryDoyle]

Now there's a great touch pass from Etling.

[HarryDoyle]

Crosby has nothing to worry about.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

No offense, but you clearly didn't watch the half? Let me clarify for you:

(1) A blatant drop by Tyler Davis on an easy catch inside the 10 yard line. Leads to an INT. It was a terrible drop. 

(2) A great throw again, on a tight window (WR's not getting separation) which should have been caught was juggled and then dropped into the tight coverage of the CB on a sideline throw. This was on Doubs, bad luck, or just a hell of a play

(3) The last play was a tight window throw. It was a heck of a play by the CB. Probably not the right throw but given what I was seeing from most of his receiving corps? Meh.

J-Love is fine. He looks much improved. And, those throws in tight windows are dangerous. We know he has a propensity to make questionable decisions from time-to-time. Hopefully he improves.

How about being a little less condescending?  Seems like you are the only one Loving the performance. 

Love's INTs:

1. Love stared down Davis, double clutched and thus threw late.  Bad luck on the INT, but not a good throw. 
2.  Not sure how this was a great throw.  Ball was behind Doubs and he almost made a great catch.  Again, bad luck INT, but not a good throw.
3.  Bad throw that was simply late.  Good play by the CB with good burst, but at best, it was easily broken up because he didn't lead the receiver. 

In addition to the picks:

- TD pass to Davis was short and Davis made an incredible adjustment to catch it.  Honestly, I have no idea where Love was trying to put this, but it was woefully low and short. 

- I counted at least two times where Love threw to the wrong side of a RB, turning him around and missing the ball.  Several other WR throws were up on their back shoulder (not the good kind) or simply high.  He does not throw an easily catchable ball. 

- Obviously missed a wide open Doubs by 5 yards and thankfully got a second shot to actually complete it.  

He did seem to settle down and play a bit better later, but this  was not the performance I was hoping for from Love.  Is he better? Yes.  Does he look like a starting QB (per today)? No. 

[CheezWizHed]

On a more positive note:

- Doubs looked great.  Back-to-back times getting wide open deep.  For a while, Love to Doubs was looking like Rogers to Adams in the 49er playoff game (any other WRs out there???).  But Doubs was mainly open all night.  Granted... he was beating Kadar Hollman out there, but clearly a step above everyone out there. 

- Danny Davis actually looked good out there.  That adjustment for the TD was beautiful.  Probably not going to make the team, but still nice to see. 

-Goodman had some nice runs...and some really bad running right into guys.  But got some zip out there. 

-Etling is interesting (still playing).  His touch pass right after getting in was sweet. 

- OL needs work. They weren't bad, but it was far too "competive" for our starting OL against teh 49ers backups. Hopefully Bahk is back soon.  

- Why are our kickoffs pooch kicks? The youngster kicked it shorter than Crosby at 0 degrees. 

- Amari Rogers didn't seem much better at catching punts.  Still a little "scary" out there. 

- DL Chris Slayton was everywhere.  Pressuring QB, making tackles, TFL... Nice game for the guy.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

A ton. Interesting take. I'll just bow out. The emotionalism and over-reaction and negativity of fans is quite simply nauseating. People act as though they are happy to see mistakes and see players fail. I'll go down the road less traveled. Enjoy.

Trust me... I'm not "happy". I was really hoping (and still am) that we will see Love take off.  I was pretty pumped to watching him tonight.  He has a great arm (such easy power), good speed/athleticism, seems to be making good reads, but poor accuracy is still killing his overall play.

Frankly, I'd love to say it was first game nerves and he looks better next week.  

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

No offense, but you clearly didn't watch the half? Let me clarify for you:

(1) A blatant drop by Tyler Davis on an easy catch inside the 10 yard line. Leads to an INT. It was a terrible drop. 

(2) A great throw again, on a tight window (WR's not getting separation) which should have been caught was juggled and then dropped into the tight coverage of the CB on a sideline throw. This was on Doubs, bad luck, or just a hell of a play

(3) The last play was a tight window throw. It was a heck of a play by the CB. Probably not the right throw but given what I was seeing from most of his receiving corps? Meh.

J-Love is fine. He looks much improved. And, those throws in tight windows are dangerous. We know he has a propensity to make questionable decisions from time-to-time. Hopefully he improves.

Agreed(mostly). He was throwing the ball much better. Not trying to put as much touch on it every play. His throw to Davis was a bit high, but hit him in both hands. The pick on the Doubs play was I thought a great play by the CB to take it away, but also a great throw and a weird fluke play that...it's pretty much impossible to put on the QB.

Love did have the poor throw to Winfree where he got lucky, so two throws that should have been picked...one that was, but apparently WRers ran the wrong route, so it's always a bit tough to tell as we just see the end result. Should have eaten the other one...but he didn't. 

The back shoulder to Davis was also an obvious adjustment and...PERFECTLY encapsulated his growth. 49ers showed blitz, mugged the A gaps(same thing KD did all game last year year). Saw Davis had man coverage and threw a back shoulder pass to give his WRer a chance. Rodgers does that and we're all applauding what a smart throw it was, knowing the CB was running with him and he was giving his WRer a chance with pressure coming. 

 

It's night and day different. You can see what people there every day in camp are talking about. I've been there a few times, but it's a bit of a drive for me. 

He made some mistakes, but I really liked that adjustment and I loved the way he was just letting it rip. Especially playing against quite a few of the 49ers rotational players. Getting the ball, throwing it on time for the most part. 

 

[CheeseheadInQC]

I feel like Love has shown he can make all the throws, and not just in a presumptive way because of the arm strength. The one Doubs dropped on the bootleg was a pretty great throw given the circumstances. He just has to show that he can do them consistently. There were a few really good throws, but plays like the running back ones (unless the back was actually supposed to turn the route upfield instead of into the flat) or the tip drill Winfree came down with need to get ironed out. It felt a bit like a Rorschach test game for him (obviously in this post displaying my tendency to cautiously stake claim to middle ground).

[UpandIn]

8 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

I feel like Love has shown he can make all the throws, and not just in a presumptive way because of the arm strength. The one Doubs dropped on the bootleg was a pretty great throw given the circumstances. He just has to show that he can do them consistently. There were a few really good throws, but plays like the running back ones (unless the back was actually supposed to turn the route upfield instead of into the flat) or the tip drill Winfree came down with need to get ironed out. It felt a bit like a Rorschach test game for him (obviously in this post displaying my tendency to cautiously stake claim to middle ground).

There were a couple big mistakes and if he were our starting QB this year, I'd be very concerned. I'm grading him A-Against himself from last year and B-as a 23 year old QB with obvious physical talent. I'm not hanging all the other crap on him that's got nothing to do with him.

It's the pre-season, so I don't care about the state line all that much. I care that he looks like he's growing...and I think he is. 

I don't know what he is yet...but I also know those saying he sucks or he's a bust...they don't know either.

I thought he made some really-really nice plays and then two really poor ones and basically...he's getting better. The guy didn't have a pre-season as a rookie, had one game last year effectively. And then a regular season game in which the OL was absolutely terrible.

If he becomes a very good starting QB, I won't be surprised. If he becomes a backup, I won't be surprised. If he becomes an MVP caliber QB, that'll surprise me, but that will surprise me with any young QB. 

Maybe it would have been better if he only played the one series and was done after the TD throw to Doubs? Then people would be happier, they'd have a prettier stat line. He wouldn't have gotten as much work, it wouldn't have helped him as much, but there'd be less people ripping the guy. 

 

I saw a ton of really great things to take from this game. The DL moved the LOS, even our 6th and 7th DL played well, our 4th and 5th CBs played well. I wasn't impressed with our OL, but they were solid. Some like Hanson were much better than I'd seen before. Tom looked like a very mobile pass blocker, but wasn't finishing his blocks. Couldn't really see much of Rhyan.

One guy that stood out a bit deeper in the game was Tariq Carpenter. He looks fluid and he plays fast. Goodson needs to run with his pads lower, Baylor needs to read the blocks better(great catch and throw on the wheel route though). 

One more quick one among a whole lot, Caleb Jones looks like more than an oddity out there. He looks VERY intriguing. And Caleb Jones looks like he can set the edge and get after the QB. I think our edges played pretty well, but he stood out a bit more than anyone else(and Enagbare was a guy I really liked).

 

But above all else, the Packers have a LOT of talent on the DL, they're physical, reset the LOS and it's also REALLY tough to fairly evaluate anyone in the pre-season when you're playing with such uneven talent. 

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

- TD pass to Davis was short and Davis made an incredible adjustment to catch it.  Honestly, I have no idea where Love was trying to put this, but it was woefully low and short. 

The one to Danny Davis? The 49ers were playing cover zero. He looked to the left, came back to Davis and made a NEAR perfect throw. Maybe a bit more toward the sideline there, but David was even with the CB. That's almost exactly how you want to throw that ball. Let the CB over run it and give your WRer a chance to make a play. 

There is absolutely no reason to throw that ball high. I just disagree with you on this.

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

- Amari Rogers didn't seem much better at catching punts.  Still a little "scary" out there. 

I presume you're talking about the one he had to come up, fair catch and go to his knees for?

He caught the ball cleanly. I think you're still impacted by last year. I don't recall any issues with him tonight(though I'm still holding my breath when he fields a punt, I'm not sure it was actually warranted tonight). 

Though he DID look night and day different physically. Actually had some explosion to him, some burst...as shown on the KR or the TD.

 

I don't know what that means for him in the bigger picture, but it gives me some hope at least. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

A reasonable person can dismiss 2 if not all 3 INTs and still see Love has a serious issue with ball placement and putting the right touch on different throws. He appears more comfortable out there but it hasn't helped his accuracy which is concerning because the two should go hand in hand. He's always had the arm talent so firing a laser here and there is not anything to hang your hat on. The NFL has been littered with busts who could throw the heck out of the ball but just couldn't consistently put it in the right place with the right touch.

[homer]

Usually there isn't much to glean from pre-season game #1 but missing easy throws in the flat has to be concerning. I didn't get a chance to watch the game, only select plays, so this is coming from the post-game reports I've read - sounds like Love is much better but still not great. He might not even be good at this point. I get the sense people are squinting and trying to see a good QB. I'll be interested to see how he does the rest of the pre-season.

[CheezWizHed]

10 hours ago, UpandIn said:

The one to Danny Davis? The 49ers were playing cover zero. He looked to the left, came back to Davis and made a NEAR perfect throw. Maybe a bit more toward the sideline there, but David was even with the CB. That's almost exactly how you want to throw that ball. Let the CB over run it and give your WRer a chance to make a play. 

There is absolutely no reason to throw that ball high. I just disagree with you on this.

 

Maybe it was how the route was expected to be run.  It is hard to see on the video as we lose Davis making the cut.  But when I saw the replays live, it looked like Davis was running a go route (and didn't have seperation).  He looked back, saw the ball coming, planted, cut in, and caught it.  I would expect a high back shoulder throw at the sidelines behind the CB (who had deep position).  Not a short throw 5 yards inside the sideline.  

If this was the called play, then great.  It was a good play.  But seeing if it was called as I described it, then it was a terrible throw.

 

[CheezWizHed]

9 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I presume you're talking about the one he had to come up, fair catch and go to his knees for?

He caught the ball cleanly. I think you're still impacted by last year. I don't recall any issues with him tonight(though I'm still holding my breath when he fields a punt, I'm not sure it was actually warranted tonight). 

Though he DID look night and day different physically. Actually had some explosion to him, some burst...as shown on the KR or the TD.

 

I don't know what that means for him in the bigger picture, but it gives me some hope at least. 

Correct.  Noting that I said "a little 'scary'".  Sure he caught it cleanly, but it still doesn't look overly natural for him.  He did looks like he had more burst out there...a nice end-around, nice KR return. But I prefer my returners to not have to hesitate or second guess themselves in catching the ball (at least in good weather conditions). 

[homer]

If Rodgers can at least catch the ball with his hands in the right place I'll consider it a quantum leap improvement.

[SeaBass]

The thing on Love is he just needs as many live action reps as he can get and against defenses that aren't what he sees every day in practice. Growth comes from being challenged.

Right now Love isn't my choice to eventually replace Rodgers as the future starter. That said I want him to be a capable backup (and it looks like he could be) and maybe show enough ability to bring something back in a trade.

I think holding grudges because of something that happened in 2020 or rooting for his failure (i.e. being hyper focused on the negative) is kinda messed up. The source of that hate is 3 years old now, the past is the past, maybe it's time to bring a mindset that is focused on 2022 and beyond.

[Joseph Zarr]

5 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

A reasonable person can dismiss 2 if not all 3 INTs and still see Love has a serious issue with ball placement and putting the right touch on different throws. He appears more comfortable out there but it hasn't helped his accuracy which is concerning because the two should go hand in hand. He's always had the arm talent so firing a laser here and there is not anything to hang your hat on. The NFL has been littered with busts who could throw the heck out of the ball but just couldn't consistently put it in the right place with the right touch.

I agree where there is smoke there is fire. Just as a 'reasonable person' can acknowledge these notable improvements have come from his first work with a fundamentals-based qb coach in Tom Clements. Maybe he improves throughout the rest of TC or the season? I would hope so. Maybe he flops. I hope not, but who knows? Regardless, I continue to find our Packers fan base is trending toward 'En-Titled Town' more and more as the seasons progress and A-Rod gets closer to retirement. I've experienced every one of their colossal playoff performances and miscues. They stink. And, yet, it is still possible to maintain patience and fight the urge to trend negative and dismissive. 

I personally think it's important to acknowledge how utterly spoiled we have been as a fan base for near 30 years. 30 years of HOF QB play. That's just ridiculous from a fan perspective. I'll celebrate the improvements Love has made and hope he continues to improve. I'll acknowledge things happen in routes and in pre-season game situations that are often far out of a qb's control. Acknowledging his accuracy is/was an issue during college is one thing - it could go the way of a Josh Allen (that's a stretch, but hey it could). It could go the way of a JaMarcus Russell (also a stretch given the differences in make-up). Where it most likely lands is somewhere in between. 

Maybe we let it play out naturally and in real time before we jump to conclusions? That's my real and only contention. The over-reactions I was seeing last night amongst the Packer fanbase was eye-opening and, really, just sad.

[Joseph Zarr]

5 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

The thing on Love is he just needs as many live action reps as he can get and against defenses that aren't what he sees every day in practice. Growth comes from being challenged.

Right now Love isn't my choice to eventually replace Rodgers as the future starter. That said I want him to be a capable backup (and it looks like he could be) and maybe show enough ability to bring something back in a trade.

I think holding grudges because of something that happened in 2020 or rooting for his failure (i.e. being hyper focused on the negative) is kinda messed up. The source of that hate is 3 years old now, the past is the past, maybe it's time to bring a mindset that is focused on 2022 and beyond.

I love this. Thank you.

[Joseph Zarr]

14 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

On a more positive note:

- Doubs looked great.  Back-to-back times getting wide open deep.  For a while, Love to Doubs was looking like Rogers to Adams in the 49er playoff game (any other WRs out there???).  But Doubs was mainly open all night.  Granted... he was beating Kadar Hollman out there, but clearly a step above everyone out there. 

- Danny Davis actually looked good out there.  That adjustment for the TD was beautiful.  Probably not going to make the team, but still nice to see. 

-Goodman had some nice runs...and some really bad running right into guys.  But got some zip out there. 

-Etling is interesting (still playing).  His touch pass right after getting in was sweet. 

- OL needs work. They weren't bad, but it was far too "competive" for our starting OL against teh 49ers backups. Hopefully Bahk is back soon.  

- Why are our kickoffs pooch kicks? The youngster kicked it shorter than Crosby at 0 degrees. 

- Amari Rogers didn't seem much better at catching punts.  Still a little "scary" out there. 

- DL Chris Slayton was everywhere.  Pressuring QB, making tackles, TFL... Nice game for the guy.

I found the Doubs hype a mixed bag for me tonight, honestly. The drop on the sideline was pretty dang bad. Then the drop on the INT was also a play he could/should make? Getting open on the deep route obviously great as the separation was fantastic. The catch near the sticks was incredible (also kind of a shoulder/body catch). Given what I've read from beat guys at practices he seems to maybe have a drop a practice? I think maybe we're jumping the gun here? I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is: those drops were mildly concerning to me and seem to possibly be part of a trend. Lotta ball games left.

Danny Davis, surprisingly, seems to have been playing consistently and impressively all TC. He suddenly appears like a legitimate PS candidate. Kind of amazing if you think about it. 

[Joseph Zarr]

15 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

How about being a little less condescending?  Seems like you are the only one Loving the performance. 

Love's INTs:

1. Love stared down Davis, double clutched and thus threw late.  Bad luck on the INT, but not a good throw. 
2.  Not sure how this was a great throw.  Ball was behind Doubs and he almost made a great catch.  Again, bad luck INT, but not a good throw.
3.  Bad throw that was simply late.  Good play by the CB with good burst, but at best, it was easily broken up because he didn't lead the receiver. 

In addition to the picks:

- TD pass to Davis was short and Davis made an incredible adjustment to catch it.  Honestly, I have no idea where Love was trying to put this, but it was woefully low and short. 

- I counted at least two times where Love threw to the wrong side of a RB, turning him around and missing the ball.  Several other WR throws were up on their back shoulder (not the good kind) or simply high.  He does not throw an easily catchable ball. 

- Obviously missed a wide open Doubs by 5 yards and thankfully got a second shot to actually complete it.  

He did seem to settle down and play a bit better later, but this  was not the performance I was hoping for from Love.  Is he better? Yes.  Does he look like a starting QB (per today)? No. 

Fair enough. I can acknowledge and hear that. 

Apologies to anyone if I came across condescending. I think I hit a boiling point there and bubbled over a tad. Mr. Positive got Mr. Snappy. ?

[Joseph Zarr]

Going back and seeing Uglem's All-22 tape comments is interesting:

Lotttttta positive Doubs feedback from someone who knows football far better than I:

And, definitely agreeing with those of you on the Love inaccuracy and forced throws bandwagon: