Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[NBBrewFan]

1 minute ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I can honestly say: I don't know if I've ever seen him not make a mistake while a Packer. Going back to the failed fingertip touchdown grab in Detroit last year (in a meaningless game). He drops balls, apparently he fumbles, and he draws penalties. I would have to agree with you here. 

What do the coaches see in practice that could possibly over-rule his in game ineptitude?

[Joseph Zarr]

1 minute ago, HarryDoyle said:

Disappointing end to the half after Love willed the Saints receiver to fall down so Abernathy could make that interception.

You're really going to die on this hill? Interesting choice of sarcasm genres. Truly. You be you.

[Joseph Zarr]

1 minute ago, NBBrewFan said:

What do the coaches see in practice that could possibly over-rule his in game ineptitude?

I don't know. It's hard to say. Some guys literally can't play under the lights. It's a real thing. I really feel for the guy - that has to be a devastating experience. 

[HarryDoyle]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

You're really going to die on this hill? Interesting choice of sarcasm genres. Truly. You be you.

He certainly has played 10 times better than last week. The best I've ever seen him play. But apparently it's a mortal sin to criticize him when he has a lackluster performance like he did last week or else you're a hater, especially when it was obviously everyone else's fault.

[yourout]

Fixing the kick squads is going to take a while.

[UpandIn]

21 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

I think it's safe to say Davis won't be making the team.

It doesn't seem like he should from what we've seen...but pre-season games are just a small piece of it.

 

They like Davis and...there is a reason for that. I haven't a clue what it could be. He looks pretty good at practice...kinda. In the couple I've been at.  
I guess just remember Eric Stokes looked bad last year as well as others who've made the team(I mean, not this bad, but bad). 

[bjkrautk]

Reading the screen and making the TFL was every bit as impressive as Abernathy’s interception.  I want to see more from him.

[yourout]

Preseason games should have one challenge per team.. Period.

[UpandIn]

1st Half Takeaway's...

Positives;

1-Yosh Nijman looks like he's taking yet another step. On those big runs Goodson was gashing the Saints before the Doubs TD, Nijman was opening lanes and on one play, he blew his man off the ball so badly, he went and took out the LBer who was filling the hole(the FB...I believe it's the new TE Becker). But he took TWO men out of the play. That size, that athletic ability. The knock against him was 1-He had TERRIBLE technique. Last year it was not great, but it was ok. 2-He wasn't aggressive and didn't have that attitude.

Yosh was showing a LOT of that attitude you want.

2-We've got LBers all over. Off ball, Edge rushers. Gavin, Hamilton, Barnes....Tipa(though he APPEARED to be out of his lane on a couple Kick Offs). But McDuffie was a wrecking ball. Saw one play where the Saints Guard was climbing to the next level and McDuffie blew that stacked the G and knocked him BACK into the RB. Khris Barnes on a swing pass came out and light up the back as soon as he caught it. 

3-Tyler Goodson-
He's not doing anything special. But Myers, Runyan, and especially Yosh are opening lanes up and he's pressing his landmarks and just taking what's there. Making the right reads. He's not gaining many yards that aren't there, but he's not leaving anything on the field. 

4A and 4B-The most OBVIOUS, Jordan Love looked outstanding. Romeo Doubs looked nearly perfect with the one flaw, not coming down with the perfectly thrown corner ball that Love dropped right in and Doubs just didn't get his head around in time.

He made a poor throw when he was pressured to Deguara, but you don't really want to float that up when there are 3 guys in the flat waiting for him. On the scramble, he threw the ball where ONLY Taylor could have caught the ball and he put it in a place where he could actually catch the ball. 

His pocket presence has been so, so much better, his ball placement has been so much better. 

 

Negatives

1-Special Teams
It's NOT that hard to stay in your lane. You have a couple of free runners...generally, but you can go and see 3-4 guys who are well out of their lanes as the KRer  gets out past the 10.

2-Tyler Davis

Just...yeah. He'll have to have an INCREDIBLE finish to camp and a very good final pre-season game...if he makes it there to make this team I would think. But, again, we're only seeing a small pct of what these coaches are going off of.

3-Not a big one, but but you CANNOT have a game plan where you have Tipa Galea covering Chris Olave and if you do, you'd better be DAMN sure that Shawn Davis is providing help over the top. Just one play, but it looked like it was some cover 3 match and somehow Galea is on Olave...absolutely baffling. 

 

 

 

Edit-A couple more positives

Amari Rodgers-I don't know if he caught the ball they're reviewing right now, but he has shown a burst and he looks like he could actually be a player. I definitely hadn't given up on him, but he looked so...unremarkable last year. No burst, no acceleration, nothing. He looks like he's got the burst back. He's catching the punts clean(though I understand people are still holding their breath when he goes back to field them). 

He did make a mistake taking one out at the 3, has to be more aware, but from where he was at the end of last year, not sure he could have looked much better thus far. 

 

Caleb Jones/Zach Tom-They're polar opposites and yet they're both getting the job done.

Tom is a smaller guy who's got incredible athleticism for any of the OL positions and does a great job moving his feet, great technique.
Jones is just like that kid who is freakishly big in Pee-Wee Football. The guy that stands out and is just throwing guys around. But he looks like he's actually pretty light on his feet. 

 

DL-We're going to likely cut 2-3 guys who would have been pretty significant contributors for the Packers in the past. Slayton, Heflin, Ford, all three look like they can play. 

Do they may be trade Dean Lowry? See if they can get a 5th or a 6th for him? Lowry was outstanding last year the final ~12 games of the season after a rough start, but man, Slayton looks like the real deal. Heflin and Ford maybe PS? Maybe they go with 6 and keep Slayton and Lowry?

[SeaBass]

48 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

You're really going to die on this hill? Interesting choice of sarcasm genres. Truly. You be you.

Don't you get it? We need Love to suck so Gute has to admit to the world he wasted a draft pick 3 years ago. Why is something that happened in 2020 so important here and now in 2022? I can't really explain it in a way that makes any sense but obviously it is.

Never mind that even Aaron Rodgers can have a less than great game like in the playoffs last year, what's definitively important is to be ultra critical of the backup QB. Aren't you a real fan??

[yourout]

If someone offered you the exact same pick that Love was in the next draft would you trade?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

7 hours ago, yourout said:

If someone offered you the exact same pick that Love was in the next draft would you trade?

Depends if Rodgers is playing again. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Love is our starter next year because we win the Super Bowl and Rodgers decides that's it.  

If Rodgers did retire I think Love will keep us competitive. Just by the decision making and touch he has shown I feel confident he will be a decent starter. He will also most likely have a very good defense around him. 

And I don't think we're too far away from the scenario where the Packers feel like they can't just lose Love but Rodgers isn't ready to quit. I don't think we're there yet. I think we could be next year. 

 

Your question already looks harder to answer than it was last year though. I guess it depends on what Rodgers is saying behind closed doors. If he's giving one year commitments then maybe I don't like that trade. If he's saying he wants to go to 45 then maybe you do trade Love....or maybe you trade Rodgers. 

 

I'm inclined to say no. If it was a top 5 pick maybe, but it wasn't that high of a pick where you're assured of a real impact player.

[yourout]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Depends if Rodgers is playing again. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Love is our starter next year because we win the Super Bowl and Rodgers decides that's it.  

If Rodgers did retire I think Love will keep us competitive. Just by the decision making and touch he has shown I feel confident he will be a decent starter. He will also most likely have a very good defense around him. 

And I don't think we're too far away from the scenario where the Packers feel like they can't just lose Love but Rodgers isn't ready to quit. I don't think we're there yet. I think we could be next year. 

 

Your question already looks harder to answer than it was last year though. I guess it depends on what Rodgers is saying behind closed doors. If he's giving one year commitments then maybe I don't like that trade. If he's saying he wants to go to 45 then maybe you do trade Love....or maybe you trade Rodgers. 

 

I'm inclined to say no. If it was a top 5 pick maybe, but it wasn't that high of a pick where you're assured of a real impact player.

Well reasoned response. I agree.

[NBBrewFan]

8 hours ago, yourout said:

If someone offered you the exact same pick that Love was in the next draft would you trade?

Before this preseason, no doubt I would jump at it.  Having seen the improvement (this is really his 2nd camp for all intents and purposes) I think he's not far from being as good as anything we could purchase on the open market and he is years ahead of a new draftee (with lower risk). I don't know how long Rodgers intends on playing, but it isn't an issue yet (might be at the time they need to pick up the 5th year option). I think we're going from "what will we do when Rodgers retires" to "What are we gonna do to keep Love if Rodgers wants to continue". That's much better than where we were even 3 months ago.

[NBBrewFan]

11 hours ago, SeaBass said:

Don't you get it? We need Love to suck so Gute has to admit to the world he wasted a draft pick 3 years ago. Why is something that happened in 2020 so important here and now in 2022? I can't really explain it in a way that makes any sense but obviously it is.

I really don't get the constant bashing of the Love pick.  I don't.  If you look back, without prejudice, to the time before that draft, Rodgers put up 2 pedestrian years (for Rodgers, but we pay him to be the BEST QB) and he was at an age that physical decline is the norm, not the exception.  The Packers got into a situation where a player they really liked was available for them to get and they did.  Since then Rodgers has been elite again.  That's a win right there. I think we all know enough about Aaron Rodgers to know that he needed that kick in the pants.  Sure, he may have returned to elite QB play without the Love pick, but I think the more likely scenario is that he needed that kick in the butt to wake him up.  So the constant whining about the pick from that standpoint is just crazy.  The other is that many of those same fans were focused on complaining about the Gary pick or not drafting a WR in the first, because they obviously know more than our GM and scouts/coaches. I think we can conclude that the Gary pick was right on and even with the WR room in it's current state THEY DIDN'T DRAFT A 1ST ROUND WR!!!!  It's not in their philosophy (or it's second to stud defenders yum yum). Fast forward 3 years and we are still hearing about their dislike no matter what happens on the field.  Sure, Love isn't perfect.  Oh my God why not!!!!! But as you said neither is the deity Aaron Rodgers and if they have any degree of perspective they would know how poorly Rodgers looked early in his career. I think HarryD is being facetious, but there's an army of the irate imbeciles who can't get enough of bashing the imperfections of Jordan Love.  Good luck with the rest of your lives.

[LouisEly]

Caleb Jones looks like he's dropped at least 30 lbs from last year at Indiana.  Looks to be in much better shape, and that appears to be translating to on-field performance.  On a related note, has Rasheed Walker been seen anywhere?  Saw him on the sidelines with a do-rag and no helmet; don't know if he's hurt, but he hasn't been on any injury report.  At this point, it would seem that they are higher on Jones than Walker.

[PeaveyFury]

Super excited for how great Enagbare looked again last night. I thought he was a steal that late in the draft and it appears he has legit skills to be in the edge rotation quickly.

[Joseph Zarr]

3 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Caleb Jones looks like he's dropped at least 30 lbs from last year at Indiana.  Looks to be in much better shape, and that appears to be translating to on-field performance.  On a related note, has Rasheed Walker been seen anywhere?  Saw him on the sidelines with a do-rag and no helmet; don't know if he's hurt, but he hasn't been on any injury report.  At this point, it would seem that they are higher on Jones than Walker.

If I recall correctly, he started and has still been on the NFI IL. So, injured still I believe. Agreed on Jones, however. He looks to be in the best shape since I first saw his mammoth body in an NCAA game.

[Joseph Zarr]

16 minutes ago, PeaveyFury said:

Super excited for how great Enagbare looked again last night. I thought he was a steal that late in the draft and it appears he has legit skills to be in the edge rotation quickly.

This one, in particular, gave me all sorts of "How in the...?" To be young and able to move! LOL.

I am definitely Chris Slayton in this clip (#60)

[Joseph Zarr]

15 hours ago, bjkrautk said:

Reading the screen and making the TFL was every bit as impressive as Abernathy’s interception.  I want to see more from him.

Yup, those were two extremely impressive plays. The plays from a street FA signing - especially given Scott's untimely and unfortunate injury - that suddenly get you a serious look. Quite pleasantly surprising.

[Joseph Zarr]

16 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

He certainly has played 10 times better than last week. The best I've ever seen him play. But apparently it's a mortal sin to criticize him when he has a lackluster performance like he did last week or else you're a hater, especially when it was obviously everyone else's fault.

I don't think this is actually what is happening - ie people labeling you a 'hater'. But, imho, this response and explanation is a much more reasoned approach. My meaningless two cents, obviously.

I think it was very fair to criticize Love last week where he fell short: accuracy on some routine throws and forcing the ball in questionable scenarios. After I went back and reviewed the game through peoples' eyes far more qualified than mine, this was the universal opinion of where he struggled. I think it was also fair to point out: his teammates also let him down in very key spots. To that end, it felt like the game was a frustrating wash. Plenty for him to improve upon. But, a pretty darn good improvement from what we had seen - and, in a place that is notoriously extremely hard for any Packers QB to play. The comfort in the pocket and the decision-making had been my biggest question marks coming into this season.  In week 1, he seemed to be playing faster etc. I came away quite positive there.

Then, we take last night, where it is widespread a universal opinion from the beat reporters he had his best performance and game as a Packer and his numbers definitely should have been more reflective if not for...more drops. Then, we start to actually see him stacking success. And, I think that anyone who watches football knows: we're not even remotely out of the woods yet. BUT, the improvement is observable as we watch. This 'should' be exciting for Packers fans - imho. We 'should' want him to be improving and building a case.

My take was, the hand-off comments et al did more to negate your case about last week. It made you come across a bit petulant and defiant. What I think I'm hearing, however, is you felt you were unfairly targeted? If that's the case, from my own vantage point I tried to apologize for my original comments during the game last week. I probably came across like I was waving a finger or biased. Anyhow, I don't see you as a 'hater'. But, I do currently do see you as someone who might be looking for him to fail?

 

[yourout]

I hope he succeeds.

I have no animosity towards him.

I did not like the Packers picking him there but that is not his fault.

[UpandIn]

19 hours ago, yourout said:

If someone offered you the exact same pick that Love was in the next draft would you trade?

IF Rodgers is coming back, yes, I'd take the 26th pick in next years draft class for Jordan Love. It sounds like we could have gotten a 2nd this past year from ATL for Love and weren't interested, but if Rodgers is going to be back for Love's 4th year, you'll LIKELY have turned down his 5th year option as you won't have seen him actually play much yet. And then I'd use that pick on what as of now appears to be one of the deepest QB classes in a VERY long time. The two locks in Stroud and Young, Tanner, McKee, Will Levis, then like...5-6 more guys with the physical attributes. Van Dyke, Rattler, Hall, Packers legend John Jurkovic's son Phil Jurkovec(It's obviously not his son, but it's be cool if it was). And there's other guys I'm forgetting. 

There are...10+ QBs who could work their way into the 1st round next year(not saying there will be more than 10 actually picked, but there are that many guys who have the size, arm, talent that they could move up and become 1st round picks). 

The one I'd really like(in this scenario) is the kid from Florida, Anthony Richardson...he is pretty much exactly what MLF wants in this offense and is kinda what Trey Lance is. He's got a lot of growing to do, but he has that freakish type of arm talent and he has the athletic ability. There's a throw of him rolling out to his left and throwing the ball about 55-60 yards downfield and hitting a WR'er...almost in stride that was incredible. He's also got that mobility that you want from a QB in today's NFL. That's just one guy that comes to mind. Bryce Young and CJ Stroud seem already set as 2 of the top 3 with Will Anderson in the mix.

 

 

If Rodgers is retiring, then no. I'd take a QB in the 2nd round like we did with Brian Brohm(that could still be Richardson). I will absolutely NOT draft Will Levis even if he's the top rated QB and he falls because any man who mixes mayo with their coffee cannot lead an NFL team and frankly should be shunned from society. But seriously, I'd go with Love. I'd try to make sure Clement stuck around. I think we're seeing the impact he's having with Love, and I'd hope we hit. With Love, with a 2nd Rd QB. People always act like the Packers absolutely knew Rodgers was "that dude," right away and I think they were confident, but they still took Brian Brohm, a guy who went back to school when many thought he was a potential top 10 pick. 

So I'd absolutely also be using a high pick on protection against him NOT hitting. With the defense the Packers have built, the OL, the scheme, we wouldn't need Love to be a top5 QB right out of the gate. If he becomes that...well, that'd be ideal. If he doesn't, Gutekunst and MLF are building this team differently. They're building it more like the 49ers built their team. 

So I'd hand it over to Love, grab at least one more young QB, another talented WRer, I'd probably move on from guys like Amos and...I don't know, Crosby and a few others as we re-set the salary cap so we're not in a constant state of handing out contracts with 3-4 void years so we can squeeze under the cap(I'm definitely re-signing Jenkins and Gary though) and try and win another way. 

 

 

So I'd do it, but it has nothing to do with what I think of Jordan Love or this weird obsession people have with him. It'd be strictly because we'd be heading into his 4th year with Rodgers still playing QB and...you'd either have to pick up the 5th year option and kinda hope Rodgers leaves(even then, Rodgers will have a big cap hit the year after he retires) or you'd have to give him a Taysom Hill type extension, but he doesn't provide any of the versatility Hill does. 

 

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

I really don't get the constant bashing of the Love pick.  I don't.  If you look back, without prejudice, to the time before that draft, Rodgers put up 2 pedestrian years (for Rodgers, but we pay him to be the BEST QB) and he was at an age that physical decline is the norm, not the exception.  The Packers got into a situation where a player they really liked was available for them to get and they did.  Since then Rodgers has been elite again.  That's a win right there. I think we all know enough about Aaron Rodgers to know that he needed that kick in the pants.  Sure, he may have returned to elite QB play without the Love pick, but I think the more likely scenario is that he needed that kick in the butt to wake him up.  So the constant whining about the pick from that standpoint is just crazy.  The other is that many of those same fans were focused on complaining about the Gary pick or not drafting a WR in the first, because they obviously know more than our GM and scouts/coaches. I think we can conclude that the Gary pick was right on and even with the WR room in it's current state THEY DIDN'T DRAFT A 1ST ROUND WR!!!!  It's not in their philosophy (or it's second to stud defenders yum yum). Fast forward 3 years and we are still hearing about their dislike no matter what happens on the field.  Sure, Love isn't perfect.  Oh my God why not!!!!! But as you said neither is the deity Aaron Rodgers and if they have any degree of perspective they would know how poorly Rodgers looked early in his career. I think HarryD is being facetious, but there's an army of the irate imbeciles who can't get enough of bashing the imperfections of Jordan Love.  Good luck with the rest of your lives.

Right...I'm not one who really believes that Rodgers play was improved because of the Jordan Love pick...I think he was banged up, the team was bad, McCarthy was there and then Yr1 of the Shanahan system, QBs usually don't play great. I get Stafford won the SB, but he also threw a LOT of picks and that team just got hot at the right time. 

I think it was just as simple as teams thought Love had a ton of upside(the Chargers didn't settle on Love over Herbert until a week before the draft) and they thought he was a unique, special QB. I don't think they made the decision based on much more than "Rodgers is getting older, 1st Rd QB gives you 5 years of control, we think this kid could be great."

 

But whatever the logic was...and there's some revisionist history now. People are talking about the WRers we should have drafted when at the time, it was that defensive front that had gotten absolutely abused by the 49ers when they ran for 200 yards before contact, they just thought Love had the upside to be a franchise QB. 

Gutekunst has drafted upside over need in pretty much every one of his drafts. Even Eric Stokes, they took the UGA CB who was ranked 2nd by most websites behind Campbell because he was long and freakishly athletic. 

Gary as you pointed out, he was playing a 3-4 DE and they moved him to OLBer. AND they'd just spent a lot of money on Za'Darius and Preston Smith...
Jaire was short and LITERALLY coached by Terrell Buckley...which made some fans skeptical. 

The safest pick he's made has been Josh Jackson, a guy who was mocked to us in the 1st round and most Packers fans would have been happy with THAT at that time.

 

So I'm good with a GM drafting for upside over need. I get others who want them to address specific positions when we're close, but...when it's 2-3 years later, it kinda feels like it's time to move on and just root for the young kid we picked to be good. 

[homer]

I was ok with the Love pick. I didn't like that they traded up to get him.