Brewers Designate Dinelson Lamet, Pedro Severino For Assignment

[brewcrewdue80]

11 hours ago, markedman5 said:

It’s not the 40 man it’s the 25 man

 

Must have *just* crossed 5yrs. Lamet was optioned by SD on 7/11. Then back for two games vs. Twins before the trade.

 

Boy. FO looks complete incompetent if they missed the boat that they couldn't option Lamet if they seriously intended to keep him as a piece in the trade. 

The luxury tax would have been 20pct for every $1 SD went over. The return for taking Lamet contract should have included a lottery prospect alone.  We also took Rogers and his contract off SDs hands. Why wouldn't you acquire another RP of SDs vs an underachieving high priced rental?  Because you were being fleeced.  

To the idea that this return may have been the best offered?  There was over 24hrs left to see offers come in before taking this fleecing.  Plenty of time to certainly to you know learn if Lamet could be optioned.

[monty57]

8 hours ago, UpandIn said:

So drafted in 2019...pitches well in an obviously small sample size.

2020-Covid, lost season, apparently impressed at the Alternate Training Site.

2021-Thoracic outlet surgery...a much more common surgery now with a much higher recovery rate. Not really "shoulder," surgery...in the traditional sense with pitchers. Nothing like Jimmy Nelson or a rotator cuff. Much higher recovery rate...and...he recovered from it. Came back throwing in the upper 90s again this year, slider was elite. So hard to see THAT particular injury being a real factor after he's fully recovered from it.

 

But...ok, Glasser is more advanced. That's a pretty small margin as Kelly was just far more dominant at the same level after coming back from, again, the Covid year and the TOS. Surely you'd agree that Kelly has far more upside, no?

As for when has Stearns done X, as I said, if you just want to say, you blindly trust Stearns...fine. If it's just trusting Stearns, ok. I don't believe Brewers fans 3 days ago would have argued for Glasser over Kelly as they are now. Kelly has performed similarly to Ashby, similar stuff(upper 90s, plus slider, command needs to improve). 

Higher floor, lower ceiling pitcher at the same level performing worse?

 

 

The reports I have read on Gasser was that he wasn't high on the prospect charts largely because of a FB that topped out around 90 MPH. During the 2020 Covid lockdown, he committed himself to working out and that added velocity and tightened up his slider. He now throws 93 regularly and can hit the mid-90's, and he has a "plus" slider, with a change-up that could turn into a plus pitch. 

This year, he has thrown 90.1 innings, and has a 115:28 K:BB ratio (4.11 K's per every BB). I've always like this ratio for pitchers, as K's are really helpful to pitchers, while walks are really harmful. Kelly has thrown 91 innings, with a 119:52 ratio (about 2.29 K's per BB). For better or worse, the Brewers seem to be looking for hitters that make contact, play good defense, and have good eyes at the plate, and pitchers with good command and the ability to strike guys out. Melvin liked hitters with one "plus, plus" tool (usually power), and pitchers with big arms with questionable command, Stearns does not. Kelly would probably have been more of a "Melvin guy," trying to harness the big arm and fix the command. Gasser is more of a "Stearns guy," already having the command and polishing up his game. It doesn't make one good and one bad, but Stearns is the guy pulling the strings these days.

They are both prospects, so their is risk to both. I don't follow prospects closely, so I have to rely on what reports say, and yes, I have to have faith in the Brewers. Stearns called Gasser something to the effect of "the best pitching prospect in baseball," so that was kind of surprising. This goes beyond simply talking a guy up. Stearns inherited a franchise that looked doomed to a long rebuild process, and quickly turned it into a playoff contender, and he has been slowly turning a bad farm into a good one. It looks like he feels Gasser has a better shot at helping the Brewers at the MLB level than Kelly does. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

As for when has Stearns done X, as I said, if you just want to say, you blindly trust Stearns...fine. If it's just trusting Stearns, ok. I don't believe Brewers fans 3 days ago would have argued for Glasser over Kelly as they are now. 

I didn't see a specific pitching prospect you mentioned in this statement that Stearns has traded away from the Brewers who is now thriving at the MLB level - so do you just blindly mistrust Stearns since you can't come up with one?

Would you rather the Brewers have kept Kelly to see if he could command his stuff effectively enough to become a reliever at the MLB level around 2025 while having to stash him on their 40 man roster the next 2.5 years when other prospects appear to be ready sooner and in need of that roster spot?  IMO that's as big a reason Kelly is no longer with the Brewers as anything.

And I don't think its fair to directly compare Gasser and Kelly as prospects without also including where they are in terms of minor league service time/40 man roster limitations.  Gasser is older but has much more minor league control tied to his development before he would need to be added to a 40 man roster - Kelly does not because he was drafted as a 19yr old, missed a full season of professional development due to COVID and then most of another year due to arm surgery.  Kelly will always have more upside simply because he throws harder than Gasser, but he also has a much lower floor and has a long ways to go before realizing that upside consistently.  Gasser was a high floor 2nd round draft pick 1 summer ago who has improved his ceiling with increased velo/stuff.

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

We also took Rogers and his contract off SDs hands. 

The Twins were already paying pretty much his entire salary this year (financial gymnastics, as part of the trade between the Twins and Padres last offseason included the Padres essentially shipping most of the $7M in cash to Minnesota - but Rogers counted almost zilch towards San Diego's luxury tax threshold this season because of it).

Including Lamet in the trade offsets the luxury tax ramifications for the Padres of adding what's left of Hader's 2022 salary from their perspective.  I do think there was another move or two involved that was going to include Lamet at the deadline, and it fell through from the Brewers' perspective.  With pitchers coming off the injured list there was just no room

[RWeeksFan23]

18 hours ago, JosephC said:

Somewhere on the first page of this thread somebody posted a tweet that indicates that Lamet was included so the Padres could stay under the luxury tax threshold.  After adding Soto, Cots Baseball Contracts has the Padres just 314k over the threshold, and while their calculations have historically been pretty good, it's reasonable to think they may be 500k off and the Padres are barely under the threshold.  So it's perfectly reasonable to think the 1.7 million the Brewers take on with the Lamet contract really does keep the Padres under the threshold.

IMO the bad look is more among the Brewer fans who thought Milwaukee would get an absolute haul for Hader.  Now the package is a rental reliever, 2 prospects who likely rank as back end top 300 prospects (certainly nowhere near top 100), and in order to get that they also have to take on a contract they didn't want.  Not much of a return at all.   

How is Ruiz nowhere near a top 100 prospect? Lol

Have you seen the guy's stats?

[UpandIn]

7 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

As for when has Stearns done X, as I said, if you just want to say, you blindly trust Stearns...fine. If it's just trusting Stearns, ok. I don't believe Brewers fans 3 days ago would have argued for Glasser over Kelly as they are now. 

I didn't see a specific pitching prospect you mentioned in this statement that Stearns has traded away from the Brewers who is now thriving at the MLB level - so do you just blindly mistrust Stearns since you can't come up with one?

Would you rather the Brewers have kept Kelly to see if he could command his stuff effectively enough to become a reliever at the MLB level around 2025 while having to stash him on their 40 man roster the next 2.5 years when other prospects appear to be ready sooner and in need of that roster spot?  IMO that's as big a reason Kelly is no longer with the Brewers as anything.

And I don't think its fair to directly compare Gasser and Kelly as prospects without also including where they are in terms of minor league service time/40 man roster limitations.  Gasser is older but has much more minor league control tied to his development before he would need to be added to a 40 man roster - Kelly does not because he was drafted as a 19yr old, missed a full season of professional development due to COVID and then most of another year due to arm surgery.  Kelly will always have more upside simply because he throws harder than Gasser, but he also has a much lower floor and has a long ways to go before realizing that upside consistently.  Gasser was a high floor 2nd round draft pick 1 summer ago who has improved his ceiling with increased velo/stuff.

 

1-Drew Rassmussen seems like he's doing alright. And no, I don't "blindly mis-trust Stearns," but I also haven't changed my opinion exclusively because we've traded one and acquired the other. 

2-Kelly was on the brink of AA...and now he's 3 years from MAYBE might possibly being a reliever? 

I wonder how Ashby made his way to the majors based on that time frame.

[UpandIn]

7 hours ago, monty57 said:

The reports I have read on Gasser was that he wasn't high on the prospect charts largely because of a FB that topped out around 90 MPH. During the 2020 Covid lockdown, he committed himself to working out and that added velocity and tightened up his slider. He now throws 93 regularly and can hit the mid-90's, and he has a "plus" slider, with a change-up that could turn into a plus pitch. 

This year, he has thrown 90.1 innings, and has a 115:28 K:BB ratio (4.11 K's per every BB). I've always like this ratio for pitchers, as K's are really helpful to pitchers, while walks are really harmful. Kelly has thrown 91 innings, with a 119:52 ratio (about 2.29 K's per BB). For better or worse, the Brewers seem to be looking for hitters that make contact, play good defense, and have good eyes at the plate, and pitchers with good command and the ability to strike guys out. Melvin liked hitters with one "plus, plus" tool (usually power), and pitchers with big arms with questionable command, Stearns does not. Kelly would probably have been more of a "Melvin guy," trying to harness the big arm and fix the command. Gasser is more of a "Stearns guy," already having the command and polishing up his game. It doesn't make one good and one bad, but Stearns is the guy pulling the strings these days.

They are both prospects, so their is risk to both. I don't follow prospects closely, so I have to rely on what reports say, and yes, I have to have faith in the Brewers. Stearns called Gasser something to the effect of "the best pitching prospect in baseball," so that was kind of surprising. This goes beyond simply talking a guy up. Stearns inherited a franchise that looked doomed to a long rebuild process, and quickly turned it into a playoff contender, and he has been slowly turning a bad farm into a good one. It looks like he feels Gasser has a better shot at helping the Brewers at the MLB level than Kelly does. 

 

I don't think that's accurate...the distinction you're making between "Stearns guys," and "Melvin guys." I think Stearns has built this team around guys with power arms and questionable command who were developing.

It was Stearns who drafted Kelly, so...by definition he's a Stearns guy. We just drafted another Juco guy with a power arm and command issues and then paid him about a million over slot(more than the 1st round prospect).

Ashby was certainly a guy who had(and continues) to have command issues. Burnes had command issues coming out and in the lower levels. 

And Stearns said Glasser is "quietly one of the better," not the best. That's a...enormous difference. One of the better is...not meaningless, but doesn't really say much to me. Yeah, he's ONE of the better ones. Well, of course you've got to say that.

They were also talking up Lamet the day before they DFA'd him...so obviously they're going to say they like the prospects they got.

 

I can do two things, trust Stearns and still not change my opinion soley because we moved players out in a trade. A 6'6 lefty who came back hitting certainly with command issues, but also dominating A+ hitters getting both Ks and weak contact and throwing 99 with a plus slider after effectively missing two years vs a 6'1 lefty with less stuff and better control. I can trust Stearns track record...but the statement was made, 'if these players were in our system all year, performing like this, we'd be calling them untouchable.'

Well...we obviously wouldn't as we aren't in Kelly's case. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

2 hours ago, RWeeksFan23 said:

How is Ruiz nowhere near a top 100 prospect? Lol

Have you seen the guy's stats?

Oh boy.

Have you considered that GMs, scouts, and ranking services sometimes go deeper than one half season's stats. There's a discussion going on about this exact thing in the minor league forum in the August Prospect List Update.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

14 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Oh boy.

Have you considered that GMs, scouts, and ranking services sometimes go deeper than one half season's stats. There's a discussion going on about this exact thing in the minor league forum in the August Prospect List Update.

I can see that you are being somewhat contrarian simply to be contrarian, but it is totally OK to be excited about the new guy ... especially when as a fan we are trying to justify giving up the best relief pitcher in the majors. I don't care if Ruiz was playing his games on the moon, those numbers are enough to make anyone do a double-take.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

2 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I can see that you are being somewhat contrarian simply to be contrarian, but it is totally OK to be excited about the new guy ... especially when as a fan we are trying to justify giving up the best relief pitcher in the majors. I don't care if Ruiz was playing his games on the moon, those numbers are enough to make anyone do a double-take.

Not being contrarian, being realistic. Interesting that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "contrarian". The things I'm bringing up are things the scouting community pays close attention to. Thousands of prospects have put up eye opening numbers and not soared up scouting rankings in the same manner that fans have elevated them. There's a reason for this. And more often than not it's the scouting world that is the side more grounded in reality.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Not being contrarian, being realistic. Interesting that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "contrarian". The things I'm bringing up are things the scouting community pays close attention to. Thousands of prospects have put up eye opening numbers and not soared up scouting rankings in the same manner that fans have elevated them. There's a reason for this. And more often than not it's the scouting world that is the side more grounded in reality.

It isn't about you not agreeing with me. You are literally telling several people that they are flat out wrong for ranking Ruiz higher than the Brewers existing OF prospects, which is a totally subjective exercise. If that isn't contrarian, I'm not exactly sure what is.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Of course the scouting world is going to have a better read on talent than Joe Fan. But why not try and learn the things scouts look at when trying to put together a prospect ranking. If people don't want to put in the effort to do more than gloss over statistics, that's fine. But what's the harm in raising some of the things most people don't think to look at, that the professionals do?

Me doing that is contrarian? What board will we have here if that's frowned upon?

[brooks_quichenick]

Just now, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Of course the scouting world is going to have a better read on talent than Joe Fan. But why not try and learn the things scouts look at when trying to put together a prospect ranking. If people don't want to put in the effort to do more than gloss over statistics, that's fine. But what's the harm in raising some of the things most people don't think to look at, that the professionals do?

"Why can't you rubes evaluate players like me and the scouts do?"

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Quote

I get that he's the shiny new toy but do your homework.  C'mon guys, as fans and close followers of this team, we should be able to crank out a pretty good prospect list and this one is already on it's way to being a mess and clancy hasn't even posted his list yet.

Quote

Your basing everything on some wild, environment inflated, recent stats and ignoring everything else.

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You of all people should know how where a minor leaguer plays their games can inflate a prospect's stats and lead to unrealistic expectations and overrating. <cough> Joey Meyer </cough>

Quote

If too many start going only as deep as some gaudy, out of context stats, then we've got a multitude doing the same thing clancy is mocked for.

Quote

Everyone just posting their lists with zero discussion is real deep stuff.

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Oh boy. Have you considered that GMs, scouts, and ranking services sometimes go deeper than one half season's stats. 

You doing THIS is contrarian. Going the "holier than thou" route typically isn't a good look. 

[NBBrewFan]

This is just fascinating and a real example of the world we live in:

Joe 1: I've got an internet connection and I can google!  I'm an expert in anything!

Joe 2: There are ways the experts do things that are different, here is what they do...

Joe 3: You calling us "rubes" and we're "uneducated"?

Sure True Blue has a delivery issue, but this is literally happening all over the internet all the time. 

[monty57]

20 hours ago, UpandIn said:

 

I don't think that's accurate...the distinction you're making between "Stearns guys," and "Melvin guys." I think Stearns has built this team around guys with power arms and questionable command who were developing.

It was Stearns who drafted Kelly, so...by definition he's a Stearns guy. We just drafted another Juco guy with a power arm and command issues and then paid him about a million over slot(more than the 1st round prospect).

Ashby was certainly a guy who had(and continues) to have command issues. Burnes had command issues coming out and in the lower levels. 

And Stearns said Glasser is "quietly one of the better," not the best. That's a...enormous difference. One of the better is...not meaningless, but doesn't really say much to me. Yeah, he's ONE of the better ones. Well, of course you've got to say that.

They were also talking up Lamet the day before they DFA'd him...so obviously they're going to say they like the prospects they got.

 

I can do two things, trust Stearns and still not change my opinion soley because we moved players out in a trade. A 6'6 lefty who came back hitting certainly with command issues, but also dominating A+ hitters getting both Ks and weak contact and throwing 99 with a plus slider after effectively missing two years vs a 6'1 lefty with less stuff and better control. I can trust Stearns track record...but the statement was made, 'if these players were in our system all year, performing like this, we'd be calling them untouchable.'

Well...we obviously wouldn't as we aren't in Kelly's case. 

I probably went a bit too far on the "Stearns guy" vs "Melvin guy" stuff. I kind of drifted off from my original point, which is that while Gasser and Kelly have similar stats in some regards, Gasser's K:BB ratio is about twice that of Kelly, and that's pretty important. They both strike guys out, but Kelly walks too many.

That, along with the need to add Kelly to the 40-man roster or risk losing him makes it understandable why they would trade for Gasser while trading away Kelly. I am in no way calling Kelly a bad prospect. To the contrary, he had to be good enough to get 2.5 years of Bush, who was pitching well this year. I wish the best for Kelly in the future, but I sure hope Bush makes the trade worthwhile for the Brewers.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

1 hour ago, NBBrewFan said:

This is just fascinating and a real example of the world we live in:

Joe 1: I've got an internet connection and I can google!  I'm an expert in anything!

Joe 2: There are ways the experts do things that are different, here is what they do...

Joe 3: You calling us "rubes" and we're "uneducated"?

Sure True Blue has a delivery issue, but this is literally happening all over the internet all the time. 

Spot on, including the part about my delivery issue. I'm working on it.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Lamet claimed by Rockies.  That sounds like the place for him to figure out what's ailing him.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

You doing THIS is contrarian. Going the "holier than thou" route typically isn't a good look. 

You calling others "holier than thou" was the laugh I needed today. Thank you sir.

[edfunderburk]

I was disappointed in the Lamet DFA … but not sure he could add any value this year - especially with his injury history

I’m delighted Colorado took his salary

Only time will tell - 2023 & 2024 - if Ruiz & Gasser pan out & this becomes another Stearns “magic” trade with San Diego

I remember when early on the Grisham & Davies for Urius & Lauer trade was considered lopsided for San Diego

I believe that was a GREAT trade for the Brewers & will only get better in the next few years

Here’s hoping the same will one day be said for the most recent trade

 

[edfunderburk]

31 minutes ago, SoCalBrewfan said:

Lamet claimed by Rockies.  That sounds like the place for him to figure out what's ailing him.

At least we don’t have his salary on our books any more 

[edfunderburk]

I’m glad to keep Severino in our minor league system as a potential “bat” & backup catcher for 2023

His story is quite sad - the 80-game ban & inability to join us if we make the playoffs

Hopefully, he will rake next year

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Of course the scouting world is going to have a better read on talent than Joe Fan. But why not try and learn the things scouts look at when trying to put together a prospect ranking. If people don't want to put in the effort to do more than gloss over statistics, that's fine. But what's the harm in raising some of the things most people don't think to look at, that the professionals do?

Me doing that is contrarian? What board will we have here if that's frowned upon?

Scouts don’t put together prospect ranking. Those are made by journalists and  website content creators.

[monty57]

7 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Scouts don’t put together prospect ranking. Those are made by journalists and  website content creators.

Yeah, teams might get a bit upset if one of their scouts made their reports public. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Hey everybody. Let’s take a deep breath. The poster on the other end of the keyboard is not the enemy. The Brewers are in a frustrating stretch of play, take a moment to pause and consider whether going hard at another poster is really going to fix your frustration about the organization.