Lauer to Front Office: "Time to put up or shut up"

[rickh150]

23 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Attendance hasn’t recovered to pre-Covid levels across all of MLB (not just Milwaukee) and Burnes will likely end up being too expensive to retain, but everything else is either conjecture or personal opinion, not really objective truth or even all that troubling necessarily depending on one’s POV.

If you think AmFam maintenance is inevitably going to be too costly for MLB to remain financially viable in Milwaukee, enjoy the death knell I guess? Brutal as it may be.

I thought I was stating the obvious. 
The clubhouse is thrilled with management? People enjoyed watching the offense this year? Stearns gets a good grade at deadline? The AmFam report and its (at least) hundreds of millions of upkeep is minor business, not a challenge? I guess it’s opinion but it is fairly vanilla and fairly accurate.
 

[UpandIn]

2 hours ago, rickh150 said:

I thought I was stating the obvious. 
The clubhouse is thrilled with management? People enjoyed watching the offense this year? Stearns gets a good grade at deadline? The AmFam report and its (at least) hundreds of millions of upkeep is minor business, not a challenge? I guess it’s opinion but it is fairly vanilla and fairly accurate.
 

You weren't. 

There's nothing easier than winning an argument by arguing points that nobody made. 

Quote

-"The Clubhouse is thrilled with management?"

Missed that claim.

Quote

-"People enjoyed watching the offense this year?" 

Whaa? You didn't make this argument even in a snide way and nobody argued otherwise. You're literally just making things up. 

2 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Stearns gets a good grade at deadline?

Where was that argument made?

Quote

The AmFam report and its (at least) hundreds of millions of upkeep is minor business, not a challenge?

Now...AGAIN, did ANYONE say it wasn't a "challenge?"

Because I read....

Quote

If you think AmFam maintenance is inevitably going to be too costly for MLB to remain financially viable in Milwaukee, enjoy the death knell I guess? Brutal as it may be.

Maybe he's just not as fatalistic as you are? Also, what does "at least hundreds of millions" mean? Are you arguing it could take billionS? Which would still be hundreds of millions, but as long as this is going to be intellectually dishonest, lets do this. 

Now, from the MJS;

Quote

 

The lease requires the stadium district to pay for improvements.

That includes work needed to keep up American Family Field to the evolving standards of other MLB stadiums.

The stadium district board, in its unanimous vote to drop the tax, relied on a report reviewing future improvements from Minneapolis-based construction firm M.A. Mortenson Co.

The Mortenson report said the district's cost estimates for future projects were reasonable, and would be covered by an $87 million reserve fund created with stadium sales tax revenue and payments by the Brewers.

The reserve fund's future projects include such items as improvements to the sound system, replacing seats and repairs to the ballpark's signature retractable roof.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2022/04/14/mark-attanasio-intends-to-maintain-high-level-at-a.html

The chasm between 

"If you think AmFam maintenance is inevitably going to be too costly for MLB to remain financially viable in Milwaukee, enjoy the death knell I guess? Brutal as it may be."

And 
"The AmFam report and its (at least) hundreds of millions of upkeep is minor business, not a challenge?"

Is staggering and...to what end?

Quote

 I guess it’s opinion but it is fairly vanilla and fairly accurate.

Wait, so you mean to tell me you think YOUR opinion and your take is "fairly accurate?"

Yeah, or it's a overly fatalistic interpretation in which you...seem to know more and speak with more authority than the actual experts on the Brewers long term viability in the city. 

I suppose one person's definition of "fairly accurate" can deviate quite a bit from another's. For instance, Would you say any of your interpretation of the previous post you just quoted was "fairly accurate?"

Because I can tell you...objectively speaking, it was not. 

Also, how nice would it be if this topic stuck to the actual Brewers...OR if the Brewers and the City were already discussing some ways to generate revenue to address the problem beyond the ~100M already ear marked for it?

https://www.wuwm.com/2022-06-08/milwaukee-brewers-to-look-at-entertainment-district-idea-ahead-of-major-cost-debate-at-stadium

Quote

 

The Milwaukee Brewers say they'll take a closer look at a county supervisor's idea to develop an entertainment district near American Family Field, as a way to help pay for future stadium improvements.

That word comes as the team, the public and politicians have entered another era of debate over how to pay to keep big-league baseball in Milwaukee.

 

 

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, Robocaller said:

I see zero reason to acquire Bell.

 

He's a nice player. Zero reason? I guess it depends. 3/30? That'd be worth it...if you didn't get Abreu.

Career hitter;

.262

.351

.459

.810

He's a nice switch hitting DH. I suspect he'll end up getting overpaid, but...there is definitely reason to sign Bell.

[rickh150]

On 11/12/2022 at 12:40 AM, UpandIn said:

You weren't. 

There's nothing easier than winning an argument by arguing points that nobody made. 

Missed that claim.

Whaa? You didn't make this argument even in a snide way and nobody argued otherwise. You're literally just making things up. 

Where was that argument made?

Now...AGAIN, did ANYONE say it wasn't a "challenge?"

Because I read....

Maybe he's just not as fatalistic as you are? Also, what does "at least hundreds of millions" mean? Are you arguing it could take billionS? Which would still be hundreds of millions, but as long as this is going to be intellectually dishonest, lets do this. 

Now, from the MJS;

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2022/04/14/mark-attanasio-intends-to-maintain-high-level-at-a.html

The chasm between 

"If you think AmFam maintenance is inevitably going to be too costly for MLB to remain financially viable in Milwaukee, enjoy the death knell I guess? Brutal as it may be."

And 
"The AmFam report and its (at least) hundreds of millions of upkeep is minor business, not a challenge?"

Is staggering and...to what end?

Wait, so you mean to tell me you think YOUR opinion and your take is "fairly accurate?"

Yeah, or it's a overly fatalistic interpretation in which you...seem to know more and speak with more authority than the actual experts on the Brewers long term viability in the city. 

I suppose one person's definition of "fairly accurate" can deviate quite a bit from another's. For instance, Would you say any of your interpretation of the previous post you just quoted was "fairly accurate?"

Because I can tell you...objectively speaking, it was not. 

Also, how nice would it be if this topic stuck to the actual Brewers...OR if the Brewers and the City were already discussing some ways to generate revenue to address the problem beyond the ~100M already ear marked for it?

https://www.wuwm.com/2022-06-08/milwaukee-brewers-to-look-at-entertainment-district-idea-ahead-of-major-cost-debate-at-stadium

 

Players are questioning the direction of the team. Lauer’s comments and Burnes blame https://fansided.com/2022/09/13/corbin-burnes-blames-brewers-contract/  fall on the team.  These are just two guys in the clubhouse so I think it is fair to say that the team is not thrilled with management as a whole and that this is a problem stemming from the Hader trade. 
”At least hundreds of millions” means just that. Yes, it could be over a billion dollars for team/city/county if you are to include and add other projects around the ballpark that include the team….like reconfiguring interstate 94 being one. If you look at Toronto’s renovation, it is in the 300 million dollar range. However, the kicker is that this is not what they all think should be done.  This isn’t even the major renovation that needs to happen in 10-12 years.   https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/news/blue-jays-unveil-2023-2024-rogers-centre-renovation    Oh, and the Orioles are borrowing 1.2 Billion dollars from the state (allowing 600 million in debt at any time). https://ballparkdigest.com/2022/04/24/state-funding-approved-for-oriole-park-renovations-milb-ballpark-upgrades/

 

[UpandIn]

5 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Players are questioning the direction of the team. Lauer’s comments and Burnes blame https://fansided.com/2022/09/13/corbin-burnes-blames-brewers-contract/  fall on the team.  These are just two guys in the clubhouse so I think it is fair to say that the team is not thrilled with management as a whole and that this is a problem stemming from the Hader trade. 
”At least hundreds of millions” means just that. Yes, it could be over a billion dollars for team/city/county if you are to include and add other projects around the ballpark that include the team….like reconfiguring interstate 94 being one. If you look at Toronto’s renovation, it is in the 300 million dollar range. However, the kicker is that this is not what they all think should be done.  This isn’t even the major renovation that needs to happen in 10-12 years.   https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/news/blue-jays-unveil-2023-2024-rogers-centre-renovation    Oh, and the Orioles are borrowing 1.2 Billion dollars from the state (allowing 600 million in debt at any time).

II do not know what you are talking about. Yes, they haven't tried to sign Burnes. This was the subject of a VERY long thread that has been discussed and is continually discussed on this forum. What POINT are you making with regard to this ACTUAL discussion?

The Rams stadium cost 5 billion dollars. That's not the BREWERS. We're talking about maintaining AmFam, not building a brand new stadium in an entirely different location. 

Lets just recap the ACTUAL statement made...

On 11/11/2022 at 9:55 PM, rickh150 said:

If you think AmFam maintenance is inevitably going to be too costly for MLB to remain financially viable in Milwaukee, enjoy the death knell I guess? Brutal as it may be.

Now how you interpreted it;

Quote

The AmFam report and its (at least) hundreds of millions of upkeep is minor business, not a challenge?

You...seeing the disconnect or...no?

 

[Robocaller]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:46 AM, UpandIn said:

He's a nice player. Zero reason? I guess it depends. 3/30? That'd be worth it...if you didn't get Abreu.

Career hitter;

.262

.351

.459

.810

He's a nice switch hitting DH. I suspect he'll end up getting overpaid, but...there is definitely reason to sign Bell.

There's zero reason for the Brewers to sign Bell, unless they make a trade. Abreu is a much better hitter.

[UpandIn]

29 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

There's zero reason for the Brewers to sign Bell, unless they make a trade. Abreu is a much better hitter.

If the question was is there a reason to sign Bell over Abreu, sure, "zero reason" makes sense.

Beyond that...the fact that he's a switch hitter...and his 128 OPS+ would have led the Brewers last year. So that seems like a reason. Also...hit lefties this past year. That'd certainly help. 

Abreu would be a...MUCH better choice obviously. 

[Robocaller]

58 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

If the question was is there a reason to sign Bell over Abreu, sure, "zero reason" makes sense.

Beyond that...the fact that he's a switch hitter...and his 128 OPS+ would have led the Brewers last year. So that seems like a reason. Also...hit lefties this past year. That'd certainly help. 

Abreu would be a...MUCH better choice obviously. 

You can't count on Bell to actually be good, as he has frequently shown in the past, including after he was traded.

[UpandIn]

19 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

You can't count on Bell to actually be good, as he has frequently shown in the past, including after he was traded.

But you really can. Outside the 60 game Covid season, he's been VERY consistent from year to year. 

It's basically Abreu option #1, and then...who is the 2nd option then? There are no 3B. We don't need a SS or 2B. 

Bell probably will be more expensive anyway, so I'd likely won't matter. 

[nate82]

15 hours ago, Robocaller said:

You can't count on Bell to actually be good, as he has frequently shown in the past, including after he was traded.

Bell can be counted for being good in one of the halves of the season.  Just which one is going to be the question.  He only has one full season where he was basically the same all year for the most part in 2018.  

2017

2018

2019

2021

 

2022

Career

[rickh150]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:18 PM, UpandIn said:

II do not know what you are talking about. Yes, they haven't tried to sign Burnes. This was the subject of a VERY long thread that has been discussed and is continually discussed on this forum. What POINT are you making with regard to this ACTUAL discussion?

The Rams stadium cost 5 billion dollars. That's not the BREWERS. We're talking about maintaining AmFam, not building a brand new stadium in an entirely different location. 

Lets just recap the ACTUAL statement made...

Now how you interpreted it;

You...seeing the disconnect or...no?

 

I am seeing your disconnect when you bring up the Rams stadium. I brought up two current MLB teams (with stadiums) with renovation projects with big price tags. I think the Brewers upkeep/renovations/plans will be of similar cost. That will be a challenge for the club. You must not have been around in 1995 and 1996 when talk began between city/state/ counties for a new ballpark. Thinking our owner is going to take on all this cost himself without public assistance is naive.  I see friction on the horizon there.

The Brewers are not a feel good story in 2022… lots of team and fan question marks and negative feelings about low payroll, lack of extensions to star players, decreased attendance, and the unknown future of the ballpark and its undoubtedly high price tag. 

My initial post in this thread was to Beauchamp’s point…I thought it might be worth it as an organization to spend big the next two years even if followed by lean years with low payroll. Why? To potentially combat the question marks/negatives mentioned.

[superfly]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:47 PM, JimH5 said:

Of all the players to spout off about what the front office should do, Eric Lauer isn't the guy.  That kind of bluster is reserved for top talent foundational stars, not a guy who allowed 27 HR in 158.2 IP.

Eric lauer saved this teams bacon while the Housers and Freddies sat on the DL half the year. Why is he not allowed to voice his opinion?

[UpandIn]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:47 PM, rickh150 said:

I am seeing your disconnect when you bring up the Rams stadium. I brought up two current MLB teams (with stadiums) with renovation projects with big price tags. I think the Brewers upkeep/renovations/plans will be of similar cost. That will be a challenge for the club. You must not have been around in 1995 and 1996 when talk began between city/state/ counties for a new ballpark. Thinking our owner is going to take on all this cost himself without public assistance is naive.  I see friction on the horizon there.

Again, I really don't know how to discuss these things when you start arguing against things that I just NEVER said;

As for the Rams stadium, you were just throwing out ridiculous comps about this going into the billions, so I thought I'd throw one out as well. 

They've got ~100 million in a fund for upgrades. They're asking for 100M in public funding. So yeah, JUUUST like the situation in Baltimore where they're earmarking 1.2 billion for upgrades to Camden, 9 minor league parks AND money earmarked for the Ravens stadium. That is...definitely an apples to apples comp. 

And of course, all of this means I must not have been around and aware of the difficulties that went with building Miller Park in the 90s....that I guess tracks with the rest of this conversation. 

On 11/14/2022 at 10:47 PM, rickh150 said:

The Brewers are not a feel good story in 2022… lots of team and fan question marks and negative feelings about low payroll, lack of extensions to star players, decreased attendance

And this...AGAIN is your argument to Robocaller's comment of;

Quote

You might be spoiled. The last 6 years is probably the second-best 6-year period in team history. We've never had a top of the rotation like our current team.

Also, it was pointed out that payroll was down across the league.

We had the highest payroll in team history. 

Quote

and the unknown future of the ballpark and its undoubtedly high price tag. 

Generally how the future works. We have some idea about the "undoubtedly high price tag" though.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2022/03/11/milwaukee-brewers-may-seek-100-million-funding-amfam-field/9376424002/

On 11/14/2022 at 10:47 PM, rickh150 said:

My initial post in this thread was to Beauchamp’s point…I thought it might be worth it as an organization to spend big the next two years even if followed by lean years with low payroll. Why? To potentially combat the question marks/negatives mentioned.

Great. 

And MINE was post was in response to your comments to Svuem that was absolutely nothing but strawmen. 

 

[UpandIn]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:50 PM, nate82 said:

Bell can be counted for being good in one of the halves of the season.  Just which one is going to be the question.  He only has one full season where he was basically the same all year for the most part in 2018.  

2017

2018

2019

2021

 

2022

Career

Now look at Willy Adames 1st and 2nd half splits. 

Most players have one half of the season that's better than the other. 

The "Bad" halfs here include a .756, a .780 with an MVP caliber 1st half, .738 and .793.

The Brewers had ONE regular with an OPS over .770 this past year.  I think he'd help. I think Abreu would help more, but I think he'd help even with the 'bad' halves. 

 

[rickh150]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:28 AM, UpandIn said:

Again, I really don't know how to discuss these things when you start arguing against things that I just NEVER said;

As for the Rams stadium, you were just throwing out ridiculous comps about this going into the billions, so I thought I'd throw one out as well. 

They've got ~100 million in a fund for upgrades. They're asking for 100M in public funding. So yeah, JUUUST like the situation in Baltimore where they're earmarking 1.2 billion for upgrades to Camden, 9 minor league parks AND money earmarked for the Ravens stadium. That is...definitely an apples to apples comp. 

And of course, all of this means I must not have been around and aware of the difficulties that went with building Miller Park in the 90s....that I guess tracks with the rest of this conversation. 

And this...AGAIN is your argument to Robocaller's comment of;

Also, it was pointed out that payroll was down across the league.

We had the highest payroll in team history. 

Generally how the future works. We have some idea about the "undoubtedly high price tag" though.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2022/03/11/milwaukee-brewers-may-seek-100-million-funding-amfam-field/9376424002/

Great. 

And MINE was post was in response to your comments to Svuem that was absolutely nothing but strawmen. 

 

It is of my opinion that the Brewers will be asking for public funding for the ballpark and projects around the ballpark in the near future. Safe bet, I think.  How the team will look for this money is anyone’s guess.  I think the Am Fam report will be talking about upgrades that will total a few hundreds of millions of dollars that will upgrade and add to the ballpark area (ballpark village, hotel?).  It will be a long term vision, I feel.  Add the restructuring of roads and construction costs to that sends the numbers much higher for the city/county.  The public will need to pick up this tab in some way.

I also think it would be wise to not trade star players now, considering the negativity I feel is still around the team. Trading Burnes will not sit well with team or fans. Even lower attendance and negativity within the clubhouse would not be what the front office wants when announcing to fans that the team is looking for public financing. Adding to the team core now and keeping us competitive for the playoffs for the next two years might be wise if seeking support for the team both now and in the long term building projects.

[Hopper]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:56 PM, superfly said:

Eric lauer saved this teams bacon while the Housers and Freddies sat on the DL half the year. Why is he not allowed to voice his opinion?

Yeah, his opinion matters as much as anyone else's.  He's part of the team, he has an opinion, it matters no more or less than anyone else's.

[brewmann04]

hopefully the Brewers make some big move the fan base deserves a ws 

[UpandIn]

5 hours ago, rickh150 said:

It is of my opinion that the Brewers will be asking for public funding for the ballpark and projects around the ballpark in the near future. Safe bet, I think.  How the team will look for this money is anyone’s guess.  I think the Am Fam report will be talking about upgrades that will total a few hundreds of millions of dollars that will upgrade and add to the ballpark area (ballpark village, hotel?).  It will be a long term vision, I feel.  Add the restructuring of roads and construction costs to that sends the numbers much higher for the city/county.  The public will need to pick up this tab in some way.

I also think it would be wise to not trade star players now, considering the negativity I feel is still around the team. Trading Burnes will not sit well with team or fans. Even lower attendance and negativity within the clubhouse would not be what the front office wants when announcing to fans that the team is looking for public financing. Adding to the team core now and keeping us competitive for the playoffs for the next two years might be wise if seeking support for the team both now and in the long term building projects.

I get all that, but Attanasio just said at the start of this past season, the Brewers didn't need public financing to maintain AmFam. So I suspect, IF he changes his tune or when he changes his tune on that, it'll be a couple years down the road.

I'm not now and never have been an advocate for trading Burnes. He's the type of player you should re-sign. BUT...if the Brewers are offered some of the proposed deals, and Burnes doesn't want to sign...then I don't think it makes sense to lose Burnes for a comp pick because in the back of your mind you're going to have to come to the Brewers fan base and ask for money.

I want to see the Brewers win...independent of a possible funding for the stadium in the near future...but what's really going to hurt is if the Brewers hold onto Burnes, Woodruff and Adames and then end up losing them for qualifying picks. 

I'd prefer to sign Burnes. I think that'll be the Brewers priority and I don't think it's as crazy as many on the board seems to believe. And if they don't sign him, Woodruff, then Adames. But if they can't...I just can't see them letting them walk in Free Agency. This isn't like the Prince team. This team has a lot of young talent in their farm system...and they've actually been able to develop pitching. I wouldn't count on developing guys like Burnes regularly, but Gasser, Misiorowski, Ashby, Peralta, if they could get a couple of high end arms to go with Chourio, Quero, Frelick, Black, Turang, Mitchell, Wiemer and all those players coming up.

It's easier to sell the fanbase on an organization that's successful year after year. It also helps that local lawmakers have advocated for developing the area surrounding Miller Park.

 

The Brewers are going into this year with the plan to build around their core. I'd only deviate if it was something like one of the Dodgers proposals(Vargas/Miller/Stone/Pepiot) 3 of them or...whatever, that's been discussed to death. But you're saying the next TWO years. If they don't sign Burnes, you'd be comfortable just letting those three players who make-up the core for QO's and comp picks? I think that would probably hurt the scenario you're talking about more than help it. 

I don't know though. Right now AmFam is fine, they've spent money to keep it up to date, the Brewers are keeping their players together for 2023, they have young exciting players...maybe the most exciting prospect they've had in a VERY long time. Things seem pretty good to me all in all. 

 

[UpandIn]

5 hours ago, brewmann04 said:

hopefully the Brewers make some big move the fan base deserves a ws 

Revenue is up, this might be the last best chance to win it with Burnes, Woody and Adames(unless we plan on letting them walk in Free Agency). 

We just saw the Phillies go toe to toe with the Astros.

I can't find a whole lot of Free Agents that fit. I love Abreu.  I think you'd be fine with Tellez and Abreu if you've got a bunch of young OFers who can play all 3 spots, a bunch of IFers who are versatile...

Wilson Contreas would also make sense. An article in the The Athletic actually had him getting a 3/36M contract. That seems about 2 years and...close to 70M short of what I think he's going to get, but...whatever. 3/60M would actually make sense for a player like him.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-top-50-free-agents/

Fangraphs has him at 4/80 but they talk about potentially moving him out from behind the plate...to DH, corner OF. Obviously that'd be...pointless for the Brewers. I haven't dug too far into his defensive metrics, but he's always passed the 'ole unreliable eye test. 

Josh Bell projection 1/9M. That is...not going to happen, but would also be worth it. I know some don't like him as he's been inconsistent, but for 1/9, I'll take him. 

They have Rodgers getting 3/30. I know he's better than he was in Milwaukee, but I'll still pass. I'm sure he'll be better at his next stop, but he'll be tied to the Hader deal. 

One kinda out of the box type idea, Carlos Rodon at 5/120? Reasonable contract, get a Burnes/Woodruff/Rodon trio for a year with Peralta and I guess Lauer as Ashby and Houser strike me as better relievers. 

I don't have a single clue what the hell this team is gonna do, but I hope it's something. I think Rodon and Contreras have good value at ~20 a year for 4-5 years. It'd hurt with Yelich, but if you're gonna make a big move, those would be big moves. Also risky ones as we need a guy who can stick at C and or a 3rd pitcher. 

 

I'm GUESSING we'll be sitting out the deGrom sweepstakes that fangraphs projects will get him a 3/141(I said 3/135 and someone thought I was crazy...and they probably weren't wrong, but a guy that talented, teams probably will get a little ridiculous). 

[Axman59]

I really wish MLB teams could go back to parks for the purposes of watching baseball. Instead of the clown show circus they expect today.

Does the field have good sight lines from the stands? Yes - I'm in.

Does the park have 8 million play areas, luxury suites, restaurants, and shops? Don't care. Stop wasting my tax dollars.

[sveumrules]

6 hours ago, Axman59 said:

I really wish MLB teams could go back to parks for the purposes of watching baseball. Instead of the clown show circus they expect today.

Does the field have good sight lines from the stands? Yes - I'm in.

Does the park have 8 million play areas, luxury suites, restaurants, and shops? Don't care. Stop wasting my tax dollars.

MLB teams care (& for the most part have always cared) more about economics than actual baseball.

Cut out all the revenue generators at AmFam Field and the deck would be stacked against the Brewers even more than it already is.

I’ll always hold romantic notions about baseball, but also understand it’s really just a vehicle for Capitalism hoping to prey on those romantic notions at every turn.