2023 NFL Discussion Thread

[BrewerFan]

39 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

As a Packer fan living in the MPLS area, I'm very much looking forward to watching the Vikings play on the road in Philly tomorrow night against that front 7....their O-line got exposed at home pretty significantly by a good Buccaneer front 7, but I think this could be one of those race to the QB type evenings and come Friday morning that 13-4 2022 record that included an unfathomable 11-0 record in 1 score games is going to look like ancient history.

I didn't see the Vikings game, but if the Tampa front was abusing the Vikings OL...yeah, Philly is going to just tee-off on them. 

Jevon Carter looks like a superstar, but they've got speed on the edges and Jordan Davis, Cox is still a nice rotational player. Philly is the blueprint that smart teams are following.

They control both sides of the LOS. We saw how much easier that makes the game for Love and how it makes it impossible for Fields. Cousins could definitely be in for a blood bath!

[CheezWizHed]

45 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

As a Packer fan living in the MPLS area, I'm very much looking forward to watching the Vikings play on the road in Philly tomorrow night against that front 7....their O-line got exposed at home pretty significantly by a good Buccaneer front 7, but I think this could be one of those race to the QB type evenings and come Friday morning that 13-4 2022 record that included an unfathomable 11-0 record in 1 score games is going to look like ancient history.

Here's to us MPLS Cheeseheads!

6 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I didn't see the Vikings game, but if the Tampa front was abusing the Vikings OL...yeah, Philly is going to just tee-off on them. 

Jevon Carter looks like a superstar, but they've got speed on the edges and Jordan Davis, Cox is still a nice rotational player. Philly is the blueprint that smart teams are following.

They control both sides of the LOS. We saw how much easier that makes the game for Love and how it makes it impossible for Fields. Cousins could definitely be in for a blood bath!

One of my Viking fan coworkers said that 2/5th of the Viking's already bad OL might be out for the game too. I actually feel bad for Cousins because they have never given him good protection.  And since he is not mobile at all (or ever was), he is very susceptible to pressure. That would be his Achilles heal... (too soon?)

[BrewerFan]

2 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

One of my Viking fan coworkers said that 2/5th of the Viking's already bad OL might be out for the game too. I actually feel bad for Cousins because they have never given him good protection.  And since he is not mobile at all (or ever was), he is very susceptible to pressure. That would be his Achilles heal... (too soon?)

Too soon? I don't know...there are a LOT of Packers fans really up on their soap box yelling...into the void at Packers fans who are disappointed because they won't be getting a 1st round pick now because "a mans health is at stake!"

Not for me. It sucks and it's sad for him and I certainly wasn't rooting for it, but I have a little trouble mustering the emotional response(again, back to Twitter, I saw grown men talking about how they couldn't talk about it without tearing up!) others have.

He's not the only guy to tear his Achilles that DAY! 

So I thought it was funny.

 

As for the Vikes OL, I guess I didn't realize how bad it was. I knew they had two really good OTs in O'Neil and Darrisaw. I thought Bradburry was alright and then seemed like Ingram and their other guard...he was a 2nd rd pick 2-3 years ago. I thought they'd finally built him a decent OL. My heart breaks for the Vikings to find out they can't hold up!😏

[CheezWizHed]

There was much ado about Darrisaw last TC after they drafted him, but I don't think he was much more than "meh" last year.  Perhaps he has improved?  Bradbury is below average and doesn't holdup to a strong NT. 

I have a feeling that coaching might be an issue for them since it doesn't really matter who they get... it continues to be an issue for them.  Meanwhile the packers continue drafting 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th rounders (with our 7th and UDFA looking not bad either) to build a strong OL.  

[BrewerFan]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:35 AM, CheezWizHed said:

There was much ado about Darrisaw last TC after they drafted him, but I don't think he was much more than "meh" last year.  Perhaps he has improved?  Bradbury is below average and doesn't holdup to a strong NT. 

I have a feeling that coaching might be an issue for them since it doesn't really matter who they get... it continues to be an issue for them.  Meanwhile the packers continue drafting 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th rounders (with our 7th and UDFA looking not bad either) to build a strong OL.  

I'm not sure what TC means here.

Last year his PFF grade was the 2nd highest behind Trent Williams among I think OTs, but maybe it was just LTs.

I see he had a pretty bad game vs Tampa. 

They DEFINITELY aren't developing OL like the Packers who can take Zach Tom, Jenkins, JRJ in the 6th or Walker in the 7th and build a pretty good OL.

The only mistake I'd say they've made is the Myers over Creed pick a couple years ago, but there is no question they develop much better than the Vikings. The same as been true for all the teams in the NFC North...though the Lions seem to have figured it out and the Bears...maybe did.

Whatever Darrisaw is, if he's the 90 grade PFF gave him last year or if he's closer to the ~73 he was given in 2021, or last year, I don't know. I haven't watched him. 

Week 1 though, Tom was the 3 overall graded OT...though Braxton Jones had a 90 pass blocking grade before he lost points for the 3 HUGE penalties lowering his grade to 62. OR the fact that both Fields and Love got the same grade for the play they fumbled the ball...despite the fact Fields lost it while Love picked it up and completed a 50 yards pass. 

 

So PFF is definitely not the end all, but I'd thought Darrisaw was viewed in a group with Schlater and Wirfs(not quite the later) as the elite young OTs. I don't know that's true.

I do know the middle of that OL is going to be just mush and with Cousins lack of mobility, Philly has to be a huge favorite tonight. 

I THINK I'm going to take Philly tonight in my survivor pool. 4 days off, Philly is at home and you've got Carter, Davis, Cox as part of their 3 man rotation and I expect them to just dominate the Vikings tonight. 

[HarveysWBs]

The Vikings start 0-2 and are officially on doom watch.  An 0-3 start drops their historical playoff odds to a minuscule amount—well under 5% of 0-3 teams end up in the postseason.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Darrisaw is a damn good LT...when he's healthy enough to be on the field - however that is becoming an issue for the young man.

 

[homer]

 

 

[homer]

Last year the Vikings were 11 - 0 in one score games.

This year they are 0 - 2 in one score games. 

Regression to the mean, like death, comes for us all.

[Fear The Chorizo]

25 minutes ago, homer said:

Last year the Vikings were 11 - 0 in one score games.

This year they are 0 - 2 in one score games. 

Regression to the mean, like death, comes for us all.

It started with the playoff loss last season to the Giants...they had the mother of all horseshoes most of last season but this year's schedule and the fact they still have a very thin roster at key position groupings is going to make for very tough sledding this year.  Some of that is the GM in his second year continuing a much-needed rebuild - but part of that is his own doing with a few poor high draft picks.  They've got undrafted FA safeties and a Harrison Smith fossil playing safety over his 1st draft pick that has barely seen the field due to a poor 2022 start/broken leg/even worse 2023 training camp (Cine), and Ingram (2nd round 2022 draft) is probably their weakest starting OL.

 

Their defensive scheme after two weeks seems like they know they have to blitz constantly to generate pressure (its either sending 5+ or faking a zero blitz and dropping 8 back into coverage on 3rd and long situations), and they hope the quarterback isn't good enough to gouge them.  And not being able to stop the run when teams actually dedicate to it is going to lead to some bad time of possession team stats, because their offense is terrible at running the ball so far.

[homer]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

It started with the playoff loss last season to the Giants...they had the mother of all horseshoes most of last season but this year's schedule and the fact they still have a very thin roster at key position groupings is going to make for very tough sledding this year.  Some of that is the GM in his second year continuing a much-needed rebuild - but part of that is his own doing with a few poor high draft picks.  They've got undrafted FA safeties and a Harrison Smith fossil playing safety over his 1st draft pick that has barely seen the field due to a poor 2022 start/broken leg/even worse 2023 training camp (Cine), and Ingram (2nd round 2022 draft) is probably their weakest starting OL.

 

Their defensive scheme after two weeks seems like they know they have to blitz constantly to generate pressure (its either sending 5+ or faking a zero blitz and dropping 8 back into coverage on 3rd and long situations), and they hope the quarterback isn't good enough to gouge them.  And not being able to stop the run when teams actually dedicate to it is going to lead to some bad time of possession team stats, because their offense is terrible at running the ball so far.

They also signed Dean Lowry to play significant snaps. He was getting pushed all over the place last night. I was having flashbacks.

[Outlander]

I'm not one to defend the Vikings but it is getting ridiculous how much leeway tackles are getting without getting called for a false start. This led to a TD.

[CheezWizHed]

22 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I'm not sure what TC means here.

Training Camp

[homer]

37 minutes ago, Outlander said:

I'm not one to defend the Vikings but it is getting ridiculous how much leeway tackles are getting without getting called for a false start. This led to a TD.

I thought the NFL was going to crack down on that? Must be next week :)

[jerichoholicninja]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:57 PM, Outlander said:

I'm not one to defend the Vikings but it is getting ridiculous how much leeway tackles are getting without getting called for a false start. This led to a TD.

Can this be seen by the naked eye in real time? I haven't watched games closely enough to know.

How much other movement are the linemen allowed nowadays? It seems like every snap all the linemen are moving around and pointing as the ball is snapped. Like the whole guard slaps the center to snap the ball. How is that allowed?

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Can this be seen by the naked eye in real time? I haven't watched games closely enough to know.

How much other movement are the linemen allowed nowadays? It seems like every snap all the linemen are moving around and pointing as the ball is snapped. Like the whole guard slaps the center to snap the ball. How is that allowed?

You're allowed to move, you're not allowed move forward. It's effectively ruled like a balk(not the best analogy).

You can't twitch forward, but you can look around, communicate. You just need to be set before the snap.

[HarryDoyle]

Now there's talk that Rodgers could be back for the playoffs (which I doubt will happen) because of a new innovative surgery that he had a few days ago, to which I say BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Fear The Chorizo]

21 hours ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Can this be seen by the naked eye in real time? I haven't watched games closely enough to know.

How much other movement are the linemen allowed nowadays? It seems like every snap all the linemen are moving around and pointing as the ball is snapped. Like the whole guard slaps the center to snap the ball. How is that allowed?

I will say it's gotten to the point where tackles are obviously getting a half second half start in their pass pro drops before the ball is snapped.

[young guns]

Richardson out with a concussion.  This is why I would not want a running qb like that.  Too much of a risk despite the talent.

[HarryDoyle]

Justin Fields threw another pick 6 to seal the loss. I don't think there's been another player in NFL history to receive so much love for doing less.

[HarryDoyle]

Wow, just turned CBS on just in time to see Denver complete the Hail Mary. Couldn't get the 2 point conversion to send it to overtime though.

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, young guns said:

Richardson out with a concussion.  This is why I would not want a running qb like that.  Too much of a risk despite the talent.

There are different types though. There's the Andrew Luck, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts types and there are the Lamar, Russell Wilson...and I think Fields is in this second group.

The first group just lowers their shoulder trying to gain extra yards and the 2nd group seems to be so smooth and avoid those big hits. That is what I'd look at. Caleb Williams is a smooth runner who gets down. Kyler does a good job of getting down.

I haven't seen Richardson play much yet, but it sounds like he's lowering a shoulder and trying to run dude's over. Probably because at 6'4 245 and with that just freakish athletic ability, he's been able to do so his whole life. 

 

But I definitely agree. Especially now with QBs making 55M a year(effectively fully GTD for injury and play) and by the time Herbert signs and whoever else and then Mahomes gets his extension, it'll be 60M, if you're going to run...GET DOUWN!

 

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Justin Fields threw another pick 6 to seal the loss. I don't think there's been another player in NFL history to receive so much love for doing less.

Just...ONE more year please Chicago!

If they get Caleb Williams...which is really possible for that team with Carolina's 1st as well, now they're the team with the MVP QB. And while I still think we'd own them because they're just fundamentally inferior people to us, it's already annoying as hell to see a Justin Fields highlight where he completes a 10 yard out to Darrell Mooney spammed all over Twitter. 

Watching a modern day Archie Manning making awesome looking plays, even on a losing team is more than they deserve. They deserve Mitch Trubisky, Caleb Williams and then...Graham Mertz. Lets hope he has a huge year in the SEC and convinces a team he's a 1st Rd QB. Trubisky did it, no reason Mertz can't(aside from talent, but that's seldom been a priority for Chicago when picking QBs). 

[HarryDoyle]

Why are there two MNF games?

[nate82]

Apparently I got it wrong and it is the NFL filing a grievance against the NFLPA for RB’s and their negotiating tactics and not the NFLPA filing the grievance for RB’s.

https://theathletic.com/4875371/2023/09/18/nfl-nflpa-running-backs-grievance/?source=user_shared_article