Mets (Peterson) vs Brewers (Burnes): 4/5/23, 12:40pm

[StearnsFTW]

8 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Counsell benching top prospect rookies against lefties for second lefty. Loser manager making loser decisions.

I assume this is some sort of joke I'm missing?

 

Edit:  I see it's not a joke, it's just a horrendous take.

[StearnsFTW]

3 hours ago, hawing said:

After the walkoff call, when Bob was reading the list of radio network sponsors, he casually dropped in "Garrett Mitchell" among the Usinger's and Cedar Crest and West Bend The Silver Lining. 😄

He did it like 3 or 4 times.   It was great.

[wallus]

52 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I assume this is some sort of joke I'm missing?

 

Edit:  I see it's not a joke, it's just a horrendous take.

Second time that take has been posted so far this season too.

[KeithStone53151]

1 hour ago, wallus said:

Second time that take has been posted so far this season too.

Nobody has tried disputing it yet. Just say it's a horrendous take, and move on.

[KeithStone53151]

5 hours ago, LouisEly said:

I manage a team of young professionals who are all mid-early 20's, first to third job out of undergrad.  One of the very important things for leading people with little professional experience is to set them up for success and give them confidence.  Sometimes that involves avoiding putting them in difficult positions initially.  Throwing them to the wolves right away can sink their confidence, and once that is gone, it takes a long time to get it back. 

I see your point, it's just not the same. These guys are playing a game they've been playing all their lives. They are moving from one level to the next. Did managers protect them from lefties every time they moved from low a to high a or high a to AA? Did Bryce Harper get platooned when he hit the majors? Did Anthony Rizzo get platooned? Benching the top prospect young guys against lefties is simply counsell playing checkers like he always does lately. The creativity he had in 2017/2018 is long gone. How counsell used hiura last year is such a prime example. We will see if it continues, I'll gladly admit I reacted prematurely if a few weeks from now...turang and Mitchell start playing more consistently against lefties assuming they continue to rake. I just don't see it happening. Miller/Taylor/etc will end up playing against lh pitching while Mitchell/turang will only play against rh pitching. 

[MVP2110]

It's one thing to disagree with a lineup, but to say Counsell is a "trash manager" because of it just seems hyperbolic. I'd venture to guess that it has more to do with Miller, Voit, & Brosseau then with Turang & Mitchell. We know Counsell likes to have all 13 position players get starts and get somewhat consistent at bats and this is probably his way of doing that. I remember you also stating he would platoon Wiemer which hasn't happened yet

[CheezWizHed]

Reminder: Disagree and argue about a take is ok.  Direct insults about the person is not tolerated.

[StearnsFTW]

11 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Nobody has tried disputing it yet. Just say it's a horrendous take, and move on.

So, you're going to stand by your statement that Counsell is a loser manager?  Wanna clarify that in any way?

 

[CheezWizHed]

I do find it odd that you want to trash Counsell for a decision to sit Turang when:

• His replacement went 1 for 2.
• Turang still played in the game
• Turang is not Bryce Harper
• The Brewers are 5-1 and have regularly been a winning team under CC. 

Yes, I get it... Turang is hot and we all love him suddenly.  He is still a rookie and let's not immediately burn him out. We could also wait and see how often T sits against lefties before we call it a platoon. 

This also isn't a first.  Braun sat more than people wanted him to when he first came up.  Burnes and Big Woo started in the pen instead of at SP.  AAA to MLB is the biggest step for any ball player.  Letting him ease into it is a wise move and CC has shown himself to be a pretty smart manager. 

[brewcrewdue80]

46 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

I do find it odd that you want to trash Counsell for a decision to sit Turang when:

• His replacement went 1 for 2.
• Turang still played in the game
• Turang is not Bryce Harper
• The Brewers are 5-1 and have regularly been a winning team under CC. 

Yes, I get it... Turang is hot and we all love him suddenly.  He is still a rookie and let's not immediately burn him out. We could also wait and see how often T sits against lefties before we call it a platoon. 

This also isn't a first.  Braun sat more than people wanted him to when he first came up.  Burnes and Big Woo started in the pen instead of at SP.  AAA to MLB is the biggest step for any ball player.  Letting him ease into it is a wise move and CC has shown himself to be a pretty smart manager. 

I think part of the original loser take is actually starting Yelich over Mitchell coming off a 2HR game. 

Miller is RH and the original comment contained started with starting this LH but not that LH.  Which I agree fully. Mitchell is the much better defender and just had 2HRs. Yelich has 1 double on the season with 4 singles and 9ks in 24Pas prior to game start. Mitchell had the 2HRs a string of getting on base 2 times 3 straight games.  That included a triple.  Counsell has done thos so many times like a robot. Yelich&Adames no platoon. Everybody else who has a HR or 2HR game the day before, and great at bats for 2 or more games? Yeah he's on the wrong side of the platoon for SP he's gotta be benched today. Nevermind the 4 of last 5 games Yelich or Adames had nothing but terrible PAs. They can face the same side SP today.  

[Playing Catch]

Pretty sure, too, that Counsell has always wanted to get all of the guys AB's early in the season, before settling into routine lineups/platoons. You want your bench bats to stay involved as long as possible, and this helps to keep all of the players fresh.

[wallus]

I have no problem with anyone questioning a manager. My issue is calling him a loser (or any player/poster/person) which is not something this place would have ever put up with when it got started.

[KeithStone53151]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I do find it odd that you want to trash Counsell for a decision to sit Turang when:

• His replacement went 1 for 2.
• Turang still played in the game
• Turang is not Bryce Harper
• The Brewers are 5-1 and have regularly been a winning team under CC. 

Yes, I get it... Turang is hot and we all love him suddenly.  He is still a rookie and let's not immediately burn him out. We could also wait and see how often T sits against lefties before we call it a platoon. 

This also isn't a first.  Braun sat more than people wanted him to when he first came up.  Burnes and Big Woo started in the pen instead of at SP.  AAA to MLB is the biggest step for any ball player.  Letting him ease into it is a wise move and CC has shown himself to be a pretty smart manager. 

I don't really care that Owen Miller went 1 for 2 or that Turang still played. I don't want a pattern of CC not letting our LH rookies face left handed pitching. Top prospect rookies don't hit the majors and all of a sudden turn into platoon bats. That's not how it should work. Imagine not seeing a lefty for a month and all of a sudden you are forced to face a LH reliever with a nasty slider. They'd end up having bad numbers against lefties this season in very limited at bats and CC will be largely to blame in that case. That's what I forsee happening and it's quite frustrating to watch him inhibit their growth after how he just handled another young top prospect in Hiura. As far as sitting Turang/Mitchell a bit to not burn them out...fine I can understand that. But it should be a bit more planned regardless of the starting pitcher, the fact that Turang came in once the LH starter was pulled both times makes it abundantly clear that he's protecting Turang/Mitchell from lefties. Protecting them from lefties is bad for their growth, and bad for the Brewers as soon as later this season and into the future...and right now Owen Miller is at best a fractional improvement over Turang at 2b against LHP, probably closer to a rounding error than anything measurable. Being a freak about platoons and maximizing that is fine in October, not in April.

[MVP2110]

30 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I don't really care that Owen Miller went 1 for 2 or that Turang still played. I don't want a pattern of CC not letting our LH rookies face left handed pitching. Top prospect rookies don't hit the majors and all of a sudden turn into platoon bats. That's not how it should work. Imagine not seeing a lefty for a month and all of a sudden you are forced to face a LH reliever with a nasty slider. They'd end up having bad numbers against lefties this season in very limited at bats and CC will be largely to blame in that case. That's what I forsee happening and it's quite frustrating to watch him inhibit their growth after how he just handled another young top prospect in Hiura. As far as sitting Turang/Mitchell a bit to not burn them out...fine I can understand that. But it should be a bit more planned regardless of the starting pitcher, the fact that Turang came in once the LH starter was pulled both times makes it abundantly clear that he's protecting Turang/Mitchell from lefties. Protecting them from lefties is bad for their growth, and bad for the Brewers as soon as later this season and into the future...and right now Owen Miller is at best a fractional improvement over Turang at 2b against LHP, probably closer to a rounding error than anything measurable. Being a freak about platoons and maximizing that is fine in October, not in April.

What exactly did you dislike about his use of Hiura? Hiura was basically an everyday player for the first 2.5 seasons he was up 

[KeithStone53151]

15 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

What exactly did you dislike about his use of Hiura? Hiura was basically an everyday player for the first 2.5 seasons he was up 

Last year when he was one of the best hitters in baseball against RHP in limited atbats for the first few months of the season, CC kept only starting him against lefties and pulling him in favor of Tellez whenever possible when he faced a RH reliever. And eventually sporadic playing time was his downfall for the rest of the season.

[MVP2110]

11 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Last year when he was one of the best hitters in baseball against RHP in limited atbats for the first few months of the season, CC kept only starting him against lefties and pulling him in favor of Tellez whenever possible when he faced a RH reliever. And eventually sporadic playing time was his downfall for the rest of the season.

I guess that seems like a stretch to me. I fully understand why someone might have wanted Hiura to get ABs over Cutch last year, but to say that led to the downfall of his season seems harsh when he add ample evidence of Hiura just not being very good for the previous 2 seasons. It's also worth noting Hiura did get more ABs vs RHP than LHP last year so he wasn't exactly a platoon only guy 

[wiguy94]

20 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Last year when he was one of the best hitters in baseball against RHP in limited atbats for the first few months of the season, CC kept only starting him against lefties and pulling him in favor of Tellez whenever possible when he faced a RH reliever. And eventually sporadic playing time was his downfall for the rest of the season.

Because his success was not at all sustainable with his gigantic K-rate! Hiura got an extended run towards the end of the season and absolutely flopped. 

His success was entirely on the back of unsustainable HR/FB rates leaving his margin for error basically non-existent. 

 

[sveumrules]

21 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Last year when he was one of the best hitters in baseball against RHP in limited atbats for the first few months of the season

Could you link these splits?

I can find monthly splits, or splits vs RHP, but nothing combining the two.

Hiura had a 688 OPS and 47.6 K% over 42 PA when he was sent down on May 5th. That’s coming off a 72 wRC+ and 36.6 K% the two previous seasons.

He had done nothing since 2019 to earn playing time over McCutchen.

He was pretty hot upon his return, with a 1.298 OPS over 22 PA from May 18 to May 28, but cratered to a .537 OPS over his next 55 PA through June 25th.

He only got 119 total PA over the first half of the season (prolly because of that 46.2 K%) so we’re talking a minuscule sample with alarming underlying indicators.

[homer]

They weren't "benched" they simply didn't start. Both Turang and Mitchell had 2 ABs.  

 

 

[HarryDoyle]

On a lighter note, we all now know why the Mets got thrashed this series, LOL

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/mets-jeff-mcneil-grass-brewers-stadium-field-conditions-tantrum-video-reaction?csp=trueanthem&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0etZWx6ODPf4lLH_Xj_YLxUiEbWYbqu-p4KCNyvek0-ECtzj0YEm0j2z8

[Brewcrew82]

May this forever live on as the game thread that never ends! 😀

[Jake McKibbin]

8 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

On a lighter note, we all now know why the Mets got thrashed this series, LOL

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/mets-jeff-mcneil-grass-brewers-stadium-field-conditions-tantrum-video-reaction?csp=trueanthem&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0etZWx6ODPf4lLH_Xj_YLxUiEbWYbqu-p4KCNyvek0-ECtzj0YEm0j2z8

Turang had no issues... 👀