Keston Hiura has a .984 OPS in Nashville

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, RobertCrawley said:

Hiura has been given every opportunity in the past to perform at the major league level, and he just didn't get it done. I'm pretty sure he's out of minor league options. His fielding has always been a source of concern. 

Is he right for the team right now? I'm not convinced.

You say he didn't get it done but he was the second or third most productive hitter on the team last season and can we stop talking about his fielding which is irrelevant at DH where Hiura would be.

[brewers888]

This offense is atrocious and the front office continues to be concerned about the defensive abilities at DH.

[Brewcrew82]

3 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

You say he didn't get it done but he was the second or third most productive hitter on the team last season and can we stop talking about his fielding which is irrelevant at DH where Hiura would be.

Rowdy Tellez had a better OPS than Hiura last season (in a much larger # of at bats) and the season before that. He will be returning to DH within the next week or so. 

His fielding is certainly relevant because you're not going to waste two roster spots on guys who can only DH or play 1B. 

[RobertCrawley]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

You say he didn't get it done but he was the second or third most productive hitter on the team last season and can we stop talking about his fielding which is irrelevant at DH where Hiura would be.

If for some reason, they needed to call Kest-Daddy up, I'd love to see him return to 2019 form. That would be redemptive and thrilling.

I hate to say it, but I think his greatest value to the club is in trade. But I'm not sure other teams are that interested.

[rickh150]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Rowdy Tellez had a better OPS than Hiura last season (in a much larger # of at bats) and the season before that. He will be returning to DH within the next week or so. 

His fielding is certainly relevant because you're not going to waste two roster spots on guys who can only DH or play 1B. 

Rowdy playing defense… there is another one. Can’t really go to his offense this season so might as well go back a year or two and pine for his defense.  And tough to blame Hiura for having limited ABs in 2022, but it is being used against him here.
At what point do you bring him up and/or let him go? What scenario do you need to see?

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Rowdy playing defense… there is another one. Can’t really go to his offense this season so might as well go back a year or two and pine for his defense.  
At what point do you bring him up and/or let him go? What scenario do you need to see?

You point to last year’s OPS for Keston. Rowdy had a better OPS last season than Keston and the year before that and the year before that. 

Neither are good defenders, but that right there is why Rowdy’s going to get the shot over Keston. Before Rowdy’s injury in June, he was OPSing over .800.

I never talked about Rowdy’s defense. I simply said the Brewers are not going to have more than one DH only type on their roster and Rowdy’s going to get the first shot over Keston.

[rickh150]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You point to last year’s OPS for Keston. Rowdy had a better OPS last season than Keston last year and the year before that and the year before that. 

Neither are good defenders, but that’s why Rowdy’s going to get the shot over Keston. Before Rowdy’s injury in June, he was OPSing over .800.

I never talked about Rowdy’s defense. I simply said the Brewers are not going to have more than one DH only type on their roster and Rowdy’s going to get the first shot over Keston.

So at what point do YOU give Keston a shot? What do you need to see? Another words, if he is so bad do you just want them to let him go? Or like some do you just base opinions on what the team does and defend brass to the highest extent? 

[Brewcrew82]

3 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

So at what point do YOU give Keston a shot? What do you need to see? Another words, if he is so bad do you just want them to let him go? Or like some do you just base opinions on what the team does and defend brass to the highest extent? 

If Rowdy falters, then I think you have no choice but to give Keston a shot…But for now I just view him as a depth option.  

Conversely, like some do you just ignore the entire picture and defend Hiura to the highest extent?

[rickh150]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Rowdy Tellez had a better OPS than Hiura last season (in a much larger # of at bats) and the season before that. He will be returning to DH within the next week or so. 

His fielding is certainly relevant because you're not going to waste two roster spots on guys who can only DH or play 1B. 

And Rowdy had daily at bats in 2022, a set spot in lineup, normalcy…not Hiura.
And Brewers “certainly” did have Tellez and Winker on this team for months manning 1B and DH this year. Tellez and Winker are good enough defense, but Tellez and Hiura is not good enough? 

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

And Rowdy had daily at bats in 2022, a set spot in lineup, normalcy…not Hiura.
And Brewers “certainly” did have Tellez and Winker on this team for months manning 1B and DH this year. Tellez and Winker are good enough defense, but Tellez and Hiura is not good enough? 

Brewers have Santana now who they didn’t have then.

[rickh150]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

If Rowdy falters, then I think you have no choice but to give Keston a shot…But for now I just view him as a depth option.  

Conversely, like some do you just ignore the entire picture and defend Hiura to the highest extent?

I see the entirety and do not like it from any angle. I also didn’t like the way the team treated him last year.
Hiura should have been included as one of the 19 Brewers DH options in 2023 a long time ago. And if he falters, he falters. Move on. I just see him as a better or even much better option that 90% of the guys used at DH this season. And the bar is low. He doesn’t even need to hit .949 as DH, .866 against RHP, .765 overall. 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I see the entirety and do not like it from any angle. I also didn’t like the way the team treated him last year.
Hiura should have been included as one of the 19 Brewers DH options in 2023 a long time ago. And if he falters, he falters. Move on. I just see him as a better or even much better option that 90% of the guys used at DH this season. And the bar is low. He doesn’t even need to hit .949 as DH, .866 against RHP, .765 overall. 

Right, now you’ve got Santana and Rowdy. No room for Keston….

Those numbers that you keep pointing to were a small sample size, in which Keston had a plus 40% K rate and was significantly overperforming his xwOBA. Keston had an opportunity to force the Brewers to keep him on the 40 man in ST and he completely blew it, just like he did last September when he was finally given everyday at-bats. And in 2020-2021 when he was handed the starting 2B/1B gigs.

[brewers888]

47 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I see the entirety and do not like it from any angle. I also didn’t like the way the team treated him last year.
Hiura should have been included as one of the 19 Brewers DH options in 2023 a long time ago. And if he falters, he falters. Move on. I just see him as a better or even much better option that 90% of the guys used at DH this season. And the bar is low. He doesn’t even need to hit .949 as DH, .866 against RHP, .765 overall. 

Keston can and will outhit Winker, Canha, and Rowdy but for some reason the front office and Counsell hate the guy.

[Brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Keston can and will outhit Winker, Canha, and Rowdy but for some reason the front office and Counsell hate the guy.

Oh really? Keston literally hasn’t outhit Rowdy since 2019.

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Oh really? Keston literally hasn’t outhit Rowdy since 2019.

 19 DH….. 2.2 million salary….2nd best OPS among current Brewers last year and this year.  Stellar numbers at AAA which includes lower K rate.
I am asking for an opportunity. Fair, logical, and almost insane to not give a chance. Like a dying man of thirst in the dessert with a few jugs of water in this backpack saying, “I think I’ll check the next town for a bubbler instead.”

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, rickh150 said:

 19 DH….. 2.2 million salary….2nd best OPS among current Brewers last year and this year.  Stellar numbers at AAA which includes lower K rate.
I am asking for an opportunity. Fair, logical, and almost insane to not give a chance. Like a dying man of thirst in the dessert with a few jugs of water in this backpack saying, “I think I’ll check the next town for a bubbler instead.”

2nd best OPS among current Brewers last year and this year? That's absolutely not true (Yelich, Contreras, Monasterio, Mitchell all better)...And even if it were, you can't compare Hiura's MLB stats to guys such as Tellez, Adames, etc, who have played both seasons and have seen a much greater # of at-bats. 

And, again, you know who has had even better numbers at AAA this year than Hiura? Luke Voit....We all know how that turned out. AAA numbers mean relatively little and don't help your argument as much as you think it does. 

It's fair to ask for an opportunity given how awful our offense has been (though I think he's already been given plenty of opportunities) but this twisting and turning of the facts is getting tiring. 

[rickh150]

29 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

2nd best OPS among current Brewers last year and this year? That's absolutely not true (Yelich, Contreras, Monasterio, Mitchell all better)...And even if it were, you can't compare Hiura's MLB stats to guys such as Tellez, Adames, etc, who have played both seasons and have seen a much greater # of at-bats. 

And, again, you know who has had even better numbers at AAA this year than Hiura? Luke Voit....We all know how that turned out. AAA numbers mean relatively little and don't help your argument as much as you think it does. 

It's fair to ask for an opportunity given how awful our offense has been (though I think he's already been given plenty of opportunities) but this twisting and turning of the facts is getting tiring. 

1st paragraph… yes, we have discussed long enough now that we now have others above Hiura! Contreras solid and Monasterio having solid games and a little power.  You want to add Mitchell now, ok. Then add Frelick too. So a few more….point taken.

2 and 3…..yet Voit got a chance. You make it sound like I am 100% sure Hiura will succeed. I just want him to get an opportunity! 

Putting this to bed for a week or two…

[BrewerFan]

10 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Not only was Hiura hurt when Singleton was called up, but Winker was of course going to get more opportunities than Hiura when we traded for him in the offseason and he was an above average to elite hitter every single season of his career until this year. Whereas Hiura's track record since his rookie season was much more spotty, to the point where the Brewers had little option but to remove him from the 40 man after an atrocious ST. 

 

I get giving Winker a long leash, but it got a little ridiculous given how much his production dropped off last year and then he went and had two pretty significant injuries. 

Removing him from the 40 isn't the issue. It's not adding him back at SOME point. 

There were games when he was healthy in June where Tellez, Winker, Tapia and Urias were all starting. 

This was in the midst or Tellez putting up a ~350 OPS over the previous month. 

 

I'll understand all of this if the Brewers retain him on a 1.1M salary next year and he ends up not being a MiLB FA. Outside of that(which seems to be reliable)...I just can't see a justification...and this is getting extremely old at this point. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

12 hours ago, rickh150 said:

And Rowdy had daily at bats in 2022, a set spot in lineup, normalcy…not Hiura.
And Brewers “certainly” did have Tellez and Winker on this team for months manning 1B and DH this year. Tellez and Winker are good enough defense, but Tellez and Hiura is not good enough? 

When Hiura got daily ABs and a set spot in the lineup last year in September, he OPS'd a very pitcher-like .522, and struck out at a 50% clip. Granted he was very good in August of last year, which led to that regular action in the first place. But when they really needed him to step up ... when they were fighting for a playoff spot in September, he was a black hole. Granted he was not the only Brewer that faltered significantly down the stretch, but he also did nothing to help. That's why we haven't seen him this year. 

[edfunderburk]

4 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

When the Brewers needed Hiura to step up ... when they were fighting for a playoff spot in September … he was a black hole

This is true & I believe this is why he will never take another meaningful AB as a Brewer

[Fear The Chorizo]

7 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

When Hiura got daily ABs and a set spot in the lineup last year in September, he OPS'd a very pitcher-like .522, and struck out at a 50% clip. Granted he was very good in August of last year, which led to that regular action in the first place. But when they really needed him to step up ... when they were fighting for a playoff spot in September, he was a black hole. Granted he was not the only Brewer that faltered significantly down the stretch, but he also did nothing to help. That's why we haven't seen him this year. 

While all true, using a couple week stretch of ABs from last season, prior to the offseason adjustments Hiura made to his swing/approach in large part to try and get his K rate dropped, is not a good reason why Hiura has had 0 MLB at bats this year for this year's roster.  Hiura was very good in August 2022, also very good in limited July action and in May...but that didn't stop the team from sending him down to Nashville multiple times during the 1st half of the 2022 season.  The low 0.500's OPS he put up over 20 September games is a bad stretch of offense, no doubt (42% K rate over that time, not the 50% you mentioned, btw) - but many players go through extended bad stretches similar or worse than that at the plate while teams patiently wait for the hot streaks to come back that can carry them offensively.  

My problem with Hiura's usage the last 2+ seasons has always been that at the first weeklong or moderately extended stretch of struggles, he would get optioned back down to the minors - and even when he was hitting well enough to continue getting sporadic at bats in Milwaukee there were times he'd get optioned due to maintaining roster flexibility and/or not giving him an everyday spot in the lineup as the team's DH once it was implemented in the NL.  Slumping with a high k rate sticks out alot more than putting the ball in play weakly 90% of your ABs when you do make contact, but the end results actually look very similar in terms of offensive production.  

 

[young guns]

What is huira contract status for next year?  I'm pretty sure he's less than 6 years, but I don't know how that works after the DFA.  If we do/don't add him to the 40 man this year, is he a FA next year regardless?

[edfunderburk]

17 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Putting this to bed for a week or two…

Wonderful 👏🎉🙌

[rickh150]

2 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

Wonderful 👏🎉🙌

Hiura thread….and he’s 2-3 with 2RBIs and a double so far in the 5th.

 

[edfunderburk]

3 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Hiura thread….

 

Yes - “another” Hiura thread

He got his chances 2019 to 2022

He regressed 

He strikes out far too often

He doesn’t have a defensive position

He can’t hit LH pitchers

Time to move on