Keston Hiura has a .984 OPS in Nashville

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, FanOutWest said:

I tip my cap to Keston and the hard work mentally and physically he has done in Nashville this season.  People complained about his K's, swing/miss, average, ops with the Brewers (rightfully so).  We can all see the adjustment he made in approach and mechanics to decrease K, increase average/ops,, worked to hit LHP, etc.  He adjusted to hitting more for average then just HR (21 thus far though).  What more will it take to be given another chance with Brewers?  "Terrible defense, a liability" but yet after playing almost every game (except while on il) he has 2 errors while playing 4 positions (1B, 2B, LF, and DH - people criticize his D while DH?), how many have trouble playing just 1 position? 

If he doesn't get the call-up this season so be it.  If Brewers intention is to bury him on the bench, let him play once or twice a week, then maybe Nashville is ideal where he can play regularly.  Some players can play sporadically and still be productive.  As of yet Keston has not shown this capability, his production is based on timing and it's difficult for him to stay sharp if played sporadically. 

This is a good point...which is why I think there's a CHANCE their plan is to keep him through this year and then bring him back for the 1.1M since he's not due to be a MiLB Free Agent yet(which if you've been following this board, @Mass Haashas outlined, if you haven't, someone can go into detail). 

But basically, if they bring him up now, they're likely going to give him sporadic ABs. If they leave him down and hand him the starting DH job next year, he could start all year and just be "the guy," and play everyday.

Not much has shown me they're willing to give him an everyday opportunity, but I'm hopeful. 

 

The other option is to just make him our DH. And I've been all for that, but it's almost Sept now, so again, very short leash, that leads to pressing and limited opportunities and isn't conducive for success. I fully expect another .280/.340/.480 25HR type season out of him if not multiple in his career. But I'm afraid that'll likely be elsewhere. 

[wallus]

I wish Keston would get a chance to succeed not only because I think he would be better than what we have but he seems like a good dude.

[Never Outhustled]

7 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Thats probably another reason he’s not in the majors: Hiura abandoned the very thing which got him to the major leagues in the first place.  Implying he has no confidence n his ability to consistently hit mlb pitching 

His changes were at the request of the Brewers coaches. Obviously, he doesn't have a confidence issue, as he was one of our best hitters a year ago. 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, Never Outhustled said:

His changes were at the request of the Brewers coaches. Obviously, he doesn't have a confidence issue, as he was one of our best hitters a year ago. 

They could be, and he could tell them that his swing got him to the majors, and he’s convinced it works against any pitcher 

[Jopal78]

6 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Here I thought the whole reason he's not in the majors was his old approach got exposed by MLB pitching and he needed to make a significant adjustment to be a mlb hitter longterm.  His willingness to go back to the drawing board and remake his swing is a sign of his confidence as a hitter IMO - if he didn't think he could hit any other way he'd still be trying to touch his chin with every leg kick in hopes he'd slug enough for a team to give him another shot.  And I'd add that the initial swing change Hiura made to try and generate a better launch angle/more HR pop was probably the main reason his production cratered in 2020-2021 - when he was drafted with a hit tool considered the best in his draft year, he was not considered to have 30+ HR power potential over the course of a full season, more of a high average doubles bat that would hit 20ish HRs a year.  What I'm seeing from Hiura now looks more like that type of player than the 2021-2022 version who would hit 35HR over 600 MLB plate appearances, but only hit around 0.215 and strike out 230+ times.

Hiura's OPS-ing close to 1.000, hitting over 0.300, and I think leading the organization in HR for the season despite missing about 1.5 months of the year due to a minor knee injury - the changes he's made to his approach need to be looked at when facing MLB pitching for an extended run, because the numbers he's putting up this year in AAA are that impressive...it's unfortunate that doesn't appear likely to happen with the Brewers, when they've spent most of this season desperate for RH pop in the lineup.

This is all circular, they dropped him in n March- meaning they did not care if he left the organization or not. Frankly, Hiura is in AAA so he can get paid. There’s no question in my mind if he was willing to refuse his salary in order to leave, the Brewers would have released him.

The Brewers have been bad at DH, the gambled on Winker and lost, Canha hasn’t been good, etc. But in spite of the DH struggles they remain in first place and have been there most of the year. Are they more in first place had they called Hiura up, nobody knows. 
 

With respect to the swing, making an adjustment is one thing, abandoning the swing that got scholarship, got drafted as a first round pick, and got 1000 PAs in the majors and trying to get back to the bigs with a different way of hitting is kind of nuts. 
 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

They could be, and he could tell them that his swing got him to the majors, and he’s convinced it works against any pitcher 

He obviously didn't say as much and his actions suggest he isn't convinced a hitting approach shouldn't be open to change - particularly because he has dabbled with different stances, hand placements, preswing loadings, and swing paths multiple times (including during his first few minor league seasons and offseasons before he initially did reach mlb).  

So, in short, there's absolutely no point to psychoanalyze a theory that isn't based in reality.  

[Jopal78]

2 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

He obviously didn't say as much and his actions suggest he isn't convinced a hitting approach shouldn't be open to change - particularly because he has dabbled with different stances, hand placements, preswing loadings, and swing paths multiple times (including during his first few minor league seasons and offseasons before he initially did reach mlb).  

So, in short, there's absolutely no point to psychoanalyze a theory that isn't based in reality.  

You’ve talked to him? You’ve seen him play in AAA? Reality… says you.
 

These are guys that have been the best player on their team since they were kids, to change your swing completely after getting significant major league experience, suggests to me someone who is lost and doesn’t know how to get back to success. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

10 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

This is all circular, they dropped him in n March- meaning they did not care if he left the organization or not. Frankly, Hiura is in AAA so he can get paid. There’s no question in my mind if he was willing to refuse his salary in order to leave, the Brewers would have released him.

The Brewers have been bad at DH, the gambled on Winker and lost, Canha hasn’t been good, etc. But in spite of the DH struggles they remain in first place and have been there most of the year. Are they more in first place had they called Hiura up, nobody knows. 
 

With respect to the swing, making an adjustment is one thing, abandoning the swing that got scholarship, got drafted as a first round pick, and got 1000 PAs in the majors and trying to get back to the bigs with a different way of hitting is kind of nuts. 
 

 

It's all circular to you I guess, because most of what you posted in this quote above either isn't entirely accurate or is your theory as to why different things happened.   I know I'm not going to change your opinion, and I hope you know whatever point you're trying to make about Hiura isn't going to resonate with me at all, either.

[Jopal78]

13 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

It's all circular to you I guess, because most of what you posted in this quote above either isn't entirely accurate or is your theory as to why different things happened.   I know I'm not going to change your opinion, and I hope you know whatever point you're trying to make about Hiura isn't going to resonate with me at all, either.

I guess I don’t understand your point if there is one. They gave him 1000+ PAs and released the guy because their baseball people concluded he couldn’t play. 

That he’s been in AAA as a result of contractual reasons is irrelevant to him getting another shot in Milwaukee , that the Brewers struggled at DH has proven irrelevant, that he’s changed his swing maybe out of desperation or maybe not is irrelevant.

Their baseball people decided back in March he’s not a player; to date that apparently hasn’t changed; and the Brewers haven’t been in panic mode yet where they’re willing to try anything to save the season.

There’s the Hiura saga in a nutshell. 

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I always think of this Pete Rose analysis when discussing Keston.

 

 

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

With respect to the swing, making an adjustment is one thing, abandoning the swing that got scholarship, got drafted as a first round pick, and got 1000 PAs in the majors and trying to get back to the bigs with a different way of hitting is kind of nuts. 

Why, when someone posts a reasonable, logical argument, backed up by evidence, do you suggest that THEY are nuts?

You are on the contrarian side enough that you might want to question whether you are the one who is nuts.

#mentalhealthcareisimportant

 

[Team Canada]

It's not productive to start debates about who's sane or not.

Frankly, this whole thread is circular at this point, there's not really anything new to say.

Keston's having a nice year in AAA. It may or may not be indicative of future success. I don't think many people are going to get upset if he's promoted, but ultimately there's not much to do - either the Brewers will bring him up or they won't. 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, Robocaller said:

Why, when someone posts a reasonable, logical argument, backed up by evidence, do you suggest that THEY are nuts?

Stop feeding the troll.

[Jopal78]

7 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Why, when someone posts a reasonable, logical argument, backed up by evidence, do you suggest that THEY are nuts?

You are on the contrarian side enough that you might want to question whether you are the one who is nuts.

#mentalhealthcareisimportant

 

Seriously, read more carefully. Not once did suggest the author was nuts, or demean them in anyway. But thanks for mocking me, very adult of you. 
 

Rather, a PLAYER abandoning the swing that made them a millionaire and allowed their wildest dreams to come true, is kind of nuts. 

 

[Team Canada]

23 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

a PLAYER abandoning the swing that made them a millionaire and allowed their wildest dreams to come true, is kind of nuts. 

 

Is it though, when they have demonstrated an inability to succeed at the highest level?

If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, it seems quite reasonable to attempt to rework a swing that has arguably failed.

Perhaps this is parsing language too finely, but I think "abandoning the swing" is overstating a bit. The swing itself looks pretty much the same to me, it's the stance and load that has been altered. 

[shanedog19]

Coming off of a 4 HR week, is today the day he gets the call? I could see it, or I could see it on September 1. I would be shocked if we don't see him up at some point in the next 10 days.

[owbc]

All the Brewers' woahs will be solvdd if only they call up Hiura. 

[rickh150]

3-5 HR, 2B…..997 OPS

I’m obviously bringing up Hiura…months ago. Just Curious at what point does this get nuts for you if it hasn’t yet.  Like would it take a few 2 HR games consecutively for this to get crazy?

We have a top 5 hitter in our system on fire at AAA, the DH spot is wide open, and everyone else is seemingly thought of more highly. It is more pride and stubbornness now. If he gets called up NOW and rakes, boy they look bad for sitting on him for months…. 
.997

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Never Outhustled]

Hiura 10-21 with 5 dingers in his last 5 games. Dump Rowdy or Anderson and get him up! Actually, I understand if they wait until September 1st, but either way, he'd help this team. 

[Never Outhustled]

16 hours ago, Team Canada said:

 

If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results

Technically, not even close to the definition of insanity ;)

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 hours ago, rickh150 said:

3-5 HR, 2B…..997 OPS

I’m obviously bringing up Hiura…months ago. Just Curious at what point does this get nuts for you if it hasn’t yet.  Like would it take a few 2 HR games consecutively for this to get crazy?

We have a top 5 hitter in our system on fire at AAA, the DH spot is wide open, and everyone else is seemingly thought of more highly. It is more pride and stubbornness now. If he gets called up NOW and rakes, boy they look bad for sitting on him for months…. 
.997

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's three previous seasons where, at his best, he was BARELY above replacement level with the bat, while adding negative value defensively. That's probably why. 

[sveumrules]

7 hours ago, rickh150 said:

If he gets called up NOW and rakes, boy they look bad for sitting on him for months…. 

Except they haven’t really sat on him for months.

Yes, he started out the year sizzling (155 wRC+ over his first 134 PAs), but then he got hurt.

When he returned from injury a month later, his pop was gone, 112 wRC+ over 119 PA from 6/16 to 7/25 with only 2 HR.

Since then he has hit for a 166 wRC+ over 88 PA with 8 HR, so the pop looks to have returned over the last few weeks.

I’d say there was reasonable justification for him not to make the OD roster, not to be called up after only six weeks, not to be called up while injured, and not to be called up after returning from injury with no pop and the trade deadline looming.

If they don’t call him up Sept. 1, the writing will really be on the wall though.

[SeaBass]

If it's just a September call up I wouldn't be holding my breath, they'll only get one extra position player. They've been cycling through Perkins (if healthy) and Toro enough to where I'd put my money on one of those guys ahead of Hiura. There's also Mitchell, Miller or Winker (if they're even going to bother with him),

I think Hiura is being kept in the minors so that they can bring him back next year at a reduced salary like some have mentioned. If they otherwise would have no reasons for avoiding bringing him up I think he'd have gotten his chance by now. I don't think dumping Anderson or Rowdy makes a lick of sense JUST to make room for Hiura.

I just don't see it happening. I'm sure that won't stop this thread growing another 10 pages over the next couple weeks.

[Frisbee Slider]

Tyler Black now with .826 OPS in 51 AB at Nashville. Keston might get bumped again.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It's three previous seasons where, at his best, he was BARELY above replacement level with the bat, while adding negative value defensively. That's probably why. 

Sigh - guessing Hiura would be among the league leaders in defensive range factor at the DH position...and if you'd look at a digital animation of his 2023 swing compared to what it looked like at various stages from 2020-2022 you wouldn't be able to tell it was the same player.

But sure, let's keep bringing up old and at this point worthless stats during sporadic at best playing time as reason why Hiura won't be able to hit if he was up in MLB again right now, while also neglecting to include his 2019 MLB stats that contradict the theory.

The reason why Hiura hasn't been called up this season is the Brewers value defensive versatility at the DH spot on their roster and they opted to pay ~$8M to Winker to OPS sub-600 at the MLB level and spend half the season in the minors himself rehabbing instead of DFA-ing him - both of which IMO is madness.  On top of that, they torched through Hiura's MiLB options far too readily in 2021 and 2022 because the other MLB vets who also weren't hitting at any given time didn't have options, so he's not on the 40 man roster at present, and a callup would require someone else to get DFA'd.   That makes even a September callup more difficult managing the roster than simply sending Hiura a plane ticket to Milwaukee on August 31.  A September callup would totally be the Brewers' way of managing Hiura at the MLB level once again - that would mean limited playing time, sporadic ABs, and even if he does hit well he wouldn't be eligible for the postseason roster.

IF there's anything to the weird extra year of roster control the Brewers have with Hiura due to him being on the MLB roster the full COVID season and it coming at a reduced salary being the reason why he hasn't been up in Milwaukee this season, his representation should look long and hard about filing a grievance with the players union.