Brewers (Woodruff) vs White Sox (Scholten): 8/12/23, 6:10pm

[adambr2]

14 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Unless you make an offer that can't be refused. Brewers have 5 of the top 60 prospects in baseball. That's pretty good place to start. By the time they get to the show there pitching will be all gone. Now is the time.

There's no one that they could have acquired even if they traded all 5 prospects that would have made them better than the Braves. They've still got some pretty good foundational pieces for the future in their system even if they lose Woodruff and Burnes. I'd rather roll with who we got and be patient with the prospects rather than offer a clear overpay just move the needle some and still need a lot of luck to get past the Braves or Dodgers. I don't want to enter a 5 year rebuild after 2024.

[markedman5]

Devin “ it wasn’t a bad pitch but it wasn’t where I wanted to throw it”

 

[markedman5]

“Making an offer that can’t be refused”  works much better in the mafia then in the baseball business……..

 

[sveumrules]

26 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

So do nothing by adding Santana? Ok. See you in February I guess. 

They added Santana/Canha to address black hole production from 1B/DH and Chafin for bullpen depth. That’s more than nothing.

No realistic combination of moves could have gotten them to the Braves (current WS odds of 25.2% FG | 19.4% BPro) or even the Dodgers (15.4% FG | 16.3% BPro) level.

Last year, when the Padres traded for Soto, Hader, Bell and Drury their WS odds went from 4.3% to 9.1%.

[BrewerFan]

18 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Unless you make an offer that can't be refused. Brewers have 5 of the top 60 prospects in baseball. That's pretty good place to start. By the time they get to the show there pitching will be all gone. Now is the time.

Yeah...those guys are pretty good. That's why they're highly rated. So pretty good chance the Brewers will be good when all those guys come up...in addition to all the guys who are already up and the guys who are up behind them. 

[Bulldogboy]

2 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Yeah...those guys are pretty good. That's why they're highly rated. So pretty good chance the Brewers will be good when all those guys come up...in addition to all the guys who are already up and the guys who are up behind them. 

Not without any pitching 

[Bulldogboy]

11 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

There's no one that they could have acquired even if they traded all 5 prospects that would have made them better than the Braves. They've still got some pretty good foundational pieces for the future in their system even if they lose Woodruff and Burnes. I'd rather roll with who we got and be patient with the prospects rather than offer a clear overpay just move the needle some and still need a lot of luck to get past the Braves or Dodgers. I don't want to enter a 5 year rebuild after 2024.

So I ask again. What is the plan? Shrug your shoulders let the pitchers walk then win 84 games a year and bow out in round one for the next five years? How do you win a world series? That's the goal.

[willie key]

I don’t know if this years team is in the go for it stage.      Unless we traded for ohtani and was able to keep him for some years then go ahead and trade top guys

 

[BrewerFan]

8 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

There's no one that they could have acquired even if they traded all 5 prospects that would have made them better than the Braves. They've still got some pretty good foundational pieces for the future in their system even if they lose Woodruff and Burnes. I'd rather roll with who we got and be patient with the prospects rather than offer a clear overpay just move the needle some and still need a lot of luck to get past the Braves or Dodgers. I don't want to enter a 5 year rebuild after 2024.

I mean...I think we could have probably added 3-4 bats. 

Just deal Chourio, Quero, Misiorowski, Black, Frelick. Baez(you're probably not getting full value for him, but just add him).
And I'm sure there are teams that would have pounced on that type of stupidity. 

Probably could have gotten Robert Jr and Jiminez for that package. Hell, the Cards would probably love that and would have give up Arrenado and Goldschmidt.

Then you stack everyone else back up and I'm guessing Boston would have traded Turner if you gave up Gasser, Rodriguez(just all of them, Carlos the CF, RF), Yophery, Adams. Ashby isn't helping now. So Boston gives you Turner and maybe Yoshida?

 

 

I love the game threads! It feels like even during a winning streak, you can always squeeze some negative in there!

[wiguy94]

7 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Not without any pitching 

Crazy how the Brewers will have no pitching in 2 years. Absolutely none.

[Brock Beauchamp]

31 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Unless you make an offer that can't be refused. Brewers have 5 of the top 60 prospects in baseball. That's pretty good place to start. By the time they get to the show there pitching will be all gone. Now is the time.

It's always possible the Brewers missed an opportunity to trade for a player... but look at all of MLB. Nobody of note offensively was traded to anyone. A few contenders didn't trade for anyone at all because the market was so thin.

I think there's pretty strong evidence that there simply weren't any game-changers available, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.

[willie key]

Just wanted to let everyone know that montaserio got a couple of hits tonight again

just in case you missed it

[BrewerFan]

7 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Not without any pitching 

Oh...and they won't have ANY pitching in the future?

They developed Burnes and Woodruff and now that's it. It's OVA! We're just gonna rotate utility men and put them on the mount?

You see that Misiorowski guy? He looks pretty good. Gasser was just one of those top 100 prospects. Pertalta...under contract.

Uribe, Payamps, Pegeuro, all under control for the next 4-6 years. Ashby I thought was pretty talented. Carlos Rodriguez.

The same group that found pitching in the 4th round from St Marry's and in the 11th round from Miss State also won't be able to find some other pitchers? Like Knoth, or Woesser or...I don't know, any number of arms they have or will draft in the future.

 

I'm thinking the "we won't have ANY pitching," during the Chourio/Quero years may be just a tiny bit premature.

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Not without any pitching 

The Brewers haven’t had much pitching this year.

As a staff they have a 23.1 K% (14th), an 8.3 BB% (14th) and a 1.29 HR/9 (24th).

Put it all together and their 4.39 FIP ranks 21st.

But add in the position player’s defense (+47 DRS | 2nd), and suddenly the staff’s ERA is a more respectable, but still not good, 4.06 (13th).

The only thing holding up the pitching staff has been Burnes and the mismanaged bullpen that has posted an MLB best +6.79 WPA.

[willie key]

Just now, BrewerFan said:

Oh...and they won't have ANY pitching in the future?

They developed Burnes and Woodruff and now that's it. It's OVA! We're just gonna rotate utility men and put them on the mount?

You see that Misiorowski guy? He looks pretty good. Gasser was just one of those top 100 prospects. Pertalta...under contract.

Uribe, Payamps, Pegeuro, all under control for the next 4-6 years. Ashby I thought was pretty talented. Carlos Rodriguez.

The same group that found pitching in the 4th round from St Marry's and in the 11th round from Miss State also won't be able to find some other pitchers? Like Knoth, or Woesser or...I don't know, any number of arms they have or will draft in the future.

 

I'm thinking the "we won't have ANY pitching," during the Chourio/Quero years may be just a tiny bit premature.

To be fair you don’t know if any of those guys can develop into a woodruff and burnes.      Minor league guys are always overhyped by hometown fans

trying to evaluate pitching is a crapshoot.    

[willie key]

Just now, sveumrules said:

The Brewers haven’t had much pitching this year.

As a staff they have a 23.1 K% (14th), an 8.3 BB% (14th) and a 1.29 HR/9 (24th).

Put it all together and their 4.39 FIP ranks 21st.

But add in the position player’s defense (+47 DRS | 2nd), and suddenly the staff’s ERA is a more respectable, but still not good, 4.06 (13th).

The only thing holding up the pitching staff has been Burnes and the mismanaged bullpen that has posted an MLB best +6.79 WPA.

I agree with this.    That’s why I wasn’t in the “go for it” stage

[Bulldogboy]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

It's always possible the Brewers missed an opportunity to trade for a player... but look at all of MLB. Nobody of note offensively was traded to anyone. A few contenders didn't trade for anyone at all because the market was so thin.

I think there's pretty strong evidence that there simply weren't any game-changers available, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.

Ok. You guys win. There is nothing that could be done. We must accept our fate as a first round exits and continue on the road to year 52 without a world series appearance much less win..I don't know who they could have gotten however just saying it doesn't make it so. I get it Brewers are going to win the rough and tumble central division. Pop champagne and douse Uke again. I guess that's the goal. Wild.

[Bulldogboy]

4 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Oh...and they won't have ANY pitching in the future?

They developed Burnes and Woodruff and now that's it. It's OVA! We're just gonna rotate utility men and put them on the mount?

You see that Misiorowski guy? He looks pretty good. Gasser was just one of those top 100 prospects. Pertalta...under contract.

Uribe, Payamps, Pegeuro, all under control for the next 4-6 years. Ashby I thought was pretty talented. Carlos Rodriguez.

The same group that found pitching in the 4th round from St Marry's and in the 11th round from Miss State also won't be able to find some other pitchers? Like Knoth, or Woesser or...I don't know, any number of arms they have or will draft in the future.

 

I'm thinking the "we won't have ANY pitching," during the Chourio/Quero years may be just a tiny bit premature.

Don't forget Ethan Small. He's certainly in the mix being a top prospect and first rounder. Lol

[Bulldogboy]

6 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Oh...and they won't have ANY pitching in the future?

They developed Burnes and Woodruff and now that's it. It's OVA! We're just gonna rotate utility men and put them on the mount?

You see that Misiorowski guy? He looks pretty good. Gasser was just one of those top 100 prospects. Pertalta...under contract.

Uribe, Payamps, Pegeuro, all under control for the next 4-6 years. Ashby I thought was pretty talented. Carlos Rodriguez.

The same group that found pitching in the 4th round from St Marry's and in the 11th round from Miss State also won't be able to find some other pitchers? Like Knoth, or Woesser or...I don't know, any number of arms they have or will draft in the future.

 

I'm thinking the "we won't have ANY pitching," during the Chourio/Quero years may be just a tiny bit premature.

Maybe by year 60 without a series these guys will all hit. Stop it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Ok. You guys win. There is nothing that could be done. We must accept our fate as a first round exits and continue on the road to year 52 without a world series appearance much less win..I don't know who they could have gotten however just saying it doesn't make it so. I get it Brewers are going to win the rough and tumble central division. Pop champagne and douse Uke again. I guess that's the goal. Wild.

[wiguy94]

8 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Oh...and they won't have ANY pitching in the future?

They developed Burnes and Woodruff and now that's it. It's OVA! We're just gonna rotate utility men and put them on the mount?

You see that Misiorowski guy? He looks pretty good. Gasser was just one of those top 100 prospects. Pertalta...under contract.

Uribe, Payamps, Pegeuro, all under control for the next 4-6 years. Ashby I thought was pretty talented. Carlos Rodriguez.

The same group that found pitching in the 4th round from St Marry's and in the 11th round from Miss State also won't be able to find some other pitchers? Like Knoth, or Woesser or...I don't know, any number of arms they have or will draft in the future.

 

I'm thinking the "we won't have ANY pitching," during the Chourio/Quero years may be just a tiny bit premature.

Also forgetting Ashby who has a 3.95 FIP, 3.24 xFIP, and 3.59 xERA in his career so far and is under a bunch of team control.

[Bulldogboy]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

Also forgetting Ashby who has a 3.95 FIP, 3.24 xFIP, and 3.59 xERA in his career so far and is under a bunch of team control.

Super reliable 👏 

[BrewerFan]

Just now, willie key said:

To be fair you don’t know if any of those guys can develop into a woodruff and burnes.      Minor league guys are always overhyped by hometown fans

trying to evaluate pitching is a crapshoot.    

Yeah, but the Brewers have been pretty good at finding pitching.

I also don't know that adding Judge and Ohtani would have gotten us to the World Series...if those two players were on the market and we could take on their salaries. I DO know if you're trading those top 5 prospects, then it really doesn't matter if you do find the next Burnes or Woodruff(and you likely just traded the most likely ace in Misiorowski away) because you're going to be pretty bad.

 

I think the plan should be pretty simple. Develop players. And I think we're doing that better now than we ever have. I think this team is fun and as always, getting into the playoffs gives you a chance, but if you really wanted a plan to build a WS Contender, it'd be on the back of franchise cornerstone type players like Chourio, Frelick, Quero and then the return you get for Burnes and then I'd imagine in a year or two for Contreras, you try and fill in.

 

I think we've established we've got a pretty good plan. We've gotten by without Woodruff for most of this year and Burnes hasn't been ace like for a good chunk of it. We've cobbled together a rotation with Rea, Teheran, smart signings like Miley and a deep, talented BP.

 

And we're attacking the pitching by going after volume. Knoth, Letson, a bunch of prep arms we drafted to go with the arms in the upper levels and more projectable LA pitchers. I think there's a pretty clear path to field a more talented team in 3-4 years than we have right now. And I still think this team COULD win. 

[BrewerFan]

5 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Maybe by year 60 without a series these guys will all hit. Stop it.

ALL of them hit? Gee...I was just hoping a couple of them would, but that'd be great if ALL of them hit!

Of course I did include several pitchers who are pitching great right now, but...sure.

[Bulldogboy]

20 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

So I ask again. What is the plan? Shrug your shoulders let the pitchers walk then win 84 games a year and bow out in round one for the next five years? How do you win a world series? That's the goal.

Nobody has answered my question so I will ask it again. What's the plan since the window with top notch pitching is closing.