2023-24 Wisconsin Basketball season thread

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

do a better job with the rules---over/under screens as needed, switching, helping, hedging

If accomplishing the above is akin to hitting the bullseye on a dart board, tonight UW missed the board, threw the dart through an open window, and hit a little old lady sitting across the street. You seldom see a team as comfortable on offense as Providence was in the 1st half; virtually nothing was taken away. They shot over 50% from 3 & over 60% from 2, which often teams don't do even with open looks. But coming out as poorly on the defensive end as they did lets the opponent get comfortable & fuels that. And PU came out with a lot of defensive energy, we never got comfy on the offensive end, and your 4th-yr JR & 5th-yr SR bigs did nothing to stem the tide, on either end.

It's frustrating when veteran returnees aren't doing what they've done before. Why you aren't ready to face teams like this & defend better, with a mostly experienced group, is a head-scratcher. Wahl in particular, has disrupted teams with every bit the athleticism of this group they saw today--or more. During the intermittent stops where they did defend (mostly in the 2nd half), you could see how vulnerable PU could be in their decision-making. Just really spotty.

I hope Storr gets better in his decision making with the ball in his hands vs halfcourt pressure, because it was ugly tonight.

Blackwell is a good combination of active, and basketball smart.

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 hours ago, Oxy said:

  1-2 isn't a good start, and the schedule doesn't exactly get softer.

I can remember a lot of MSU teams that started out slow due to rough non-con skeds, then figured things out. Hopefully that happens here, that the sooner the warts are exposed, the sooner you can get players' attention & get it cleaned up. Good news is, they've played much better than this vs quality opponents in the past. IMO it isn't a case of not being "good enough".

[yourout]

Obviously they're better than they played tonight but his team is still too much glue and not enough wood.

[MrTPlush]

For as much as Wisconsin returns players and they are around 4-5 years. It is amazing how none of them ever seem to really progress their game.

 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

For as much as Wisconsin returns players and they are around 4-5 years. It is amazing how none of them ever seem to really progress their game.

 

Because the majority have already maxed out potential wise.  There really isn’t anything left to get out of them.  Even refining what they are is like squeezing blood out of a turnip.

[Jim French Stepstool]

22 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Because the majority have already maxed out potential wise.  There really isn’t anything left to get out of them.  Even refining what they are is like squeezing blood out of a turnip.

We're three games in. I think Hepburn has elevated his overall game from what I've seen ( I'll admit my timing in making this point is terrible because of the lousy day he had yesterday). The other returnees, again through three games, I'd have to agree. A caveat is that I don't believe Essegian is 100%.

Even a lot of Ryans' teams were "whole is greater than the sum of the parts" type squads. With just the same production they received last year from the vets I think they'll score enough points, given the addition of Storr & the freshmen. What has to happen is the team & individual defense needs to get a lot more consistent.

Wahl & Crowl don't have to dominate. But those two showing some consistency on both ends is vitally important to this team.

[Oxy]

22 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

For as much as Wisconsin returns players and they are around 4-5 years. It is amazing how none of them ever seem to really progress their game.

 

To me, this is the most concerning part about Gard, at least when compared to his predecessor. Guys like Jordan Taylor, Jon Leuer. and Frank Kaminsky were more the norm than the anomaly under Ryan.  Everybody who played for him was significantly stronger, better and more skilled as upperclassman than as freshmen.  It's been awhile since even ONE guy has progressed as well as say...Vitto Brown or Zac Showalter did.

[OldHeidelberg]

55 minutes ago, Oxy said:

To me, this is the most concerning part about Gard, at least when compared to his predecessor. Guys like Jordan Taylor, Jon Leuer. and Frank Kaminsky were more the norm than the anomaly under Ryan.  Everybody who played for him was significantly stronger, better and more skilled as upperclassman than as freshmen.  It's been awhile since even ONE guy has progressed as well as say...Vitto Brown or Zac Showalter did.

I was thinking of this the other day too, There were some guys like Bergrenn and Nankovil who I think had disappointing senior years but overall a Ryan team full of upperclassman was usually very good. With Gard it's almost like guys get worse...  

[yourout]

4 hours ago, OldHeidelberg said:

I was thinking of this the other day too, There were some guys like Bergrenn and Nankovil who I think had disappointing senior years but overall a Ryan team full of upperclassman was usually very good. With Gard it's almost like guys get worse...  

Wonder if Gards assistants are as good as Gard and Close were for Bo?

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 hours ago, Oxy said:

To me, this is the most concerning part about Gard, at least when compared to his predecessor. Guys like Jordan Taylor, Jon Leuer. and Frank Kaminsky were more the norm than the anomaly under Ryan.  Everybody who played for him was significantly stronger, better and more skilled as upperclassman than as freshmen.  It's been awhile since even ONE guy has progressed as well as say...Vitto Brown or Zac Showalter did.

I think that's fair. When you take both ends of the floor into account I think both Aleem Ford & D'Mitrik Trice left UW much better players, but obviously not at the level of some of the Ryan guys ( I think one of the best examples is Clayton Hansen).

Concerning this years' team, Steve Crowl has gotten off to a rocky start defensively, but despite the struggles with the 3-point shot he's increased his PPG by quite a bit each year. He, frankly, stunk at Providence. He needed to finish more often vs Tennessee but wound up with 14 & 9 rebounds vs one of the better defenses they'll see this year.

Wahl doubled his PPG each season here, then struggled last season, then got injured & came back at I suspect something less than 100%. If his first three games are indicative of his 23-24 season, yeah, big disappointment. Like Crowl, needs to make a much bigger statement defensively (and please Tyler, play as if a sniper is going to aim at you from the stands the next time you shoot from beyond the arc).

I don't know where the ceiling sits for Hepburn, but I think he's much improved from what I've seen.

I believe Max Klesmits' ceiling is what he's shown to be last season, which was IMO pretty solid. I don't think he was much better at Wofford, where he scored more but that's not surprising coming from the So Con. Certainly has gotten off to a sub-par start, especially defensively.

As for Essegian, I have to think the back isn't at 100%. I watched him during warmups before the Tennessee game & flat out told my wife I didn't think he'd be playing because he didn't even seem to be able to move well enough to get loose.

And here's a common thread--in their last game, which was far & away their worst so far, none of those mentioned above came close to playing well. I'd rather let them get a little deeper into the season before passing judgement. But looking at the program "big picture" I think the point you make has some merit.

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 hours ago, yourout said:

Wonder if Gards assistants are as good as Gard and Close were for Bo?

I once had a chance to converse with Lamont Parris, who went on to ETSU & is now at South Carolina, and came away with two thoughts 1) I wish he'd stay at UW forever, and 2) It's almost impossible he would.

I get pretty good vibes about Dean Oliver, but I too think the jury is out regarding exactly how good the staff is. Kirk Penney is an interesting recent add.

[CheezWizHed]

23 hours ago, Oxy said:

To me, this is the most concerning part about Gard, at least when compared to his predecessor. Guys like Jordan Taylor, Jon Leuer. and Frank Kaminsky were more the norm than the anomaly under Ryan.  Everybody who played for him was significantly stronger, better and more skilled as upperclassman than as freshmen.  It's been awhile since even ONE guy has progressed as well as say...Vitto Brown or Zac Showalter did.

Johnny Davis says "hi". 😉 Ironically JD could be the best NBA player Ryan or Gard ever had.

Bronson Koenig was a bit of a cross-over from Ryan to Gard who kept getting better.

Brad Davison kept getting better each year. Ethan Happ (except for FTs). 

We just don't get high ceiling players so they develop up to a certain point and then plateau.  Seeing someone peak their junior year and not progress their senior year seems pretty common with our players. 

 

 

[yourout]

Looks like Blackwell is a keeper.

A lot to like about his game.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, yourout said:

Looks like Blackwell is a keeper.

A lot to like about his game.

Things changed greatly for UW on the defensive end in the 2nd half tonite, especially when Blackwell & Kamari McGee were inserted. They really disrupted well in the half court. If not for 2-3 desperation threes RMU pulled out of their arse late in the shot clock they're held to around 25 pts or so in the half. They both played so much better than Klesmit, Essegian & Lindsey. Fortunately UW didn't miss the lack of perimeter offense because there was a big advantage inside. Wahl was better tonite. Crowl IMO still trying to find a comfort zone.

Hepburn seems effective guarding off the ball, Just don't know how often they can afford to have McGee out there to guard the point. His offense is limited.

Blackwell took just five shots from the floor, and scored 18pts. Wahl, same thing. Coaches love that stuff.

[Oxy]

16 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Johnny Davis says "hi". 😉 Ironically JD could be the best NBA player Ryan or Gard ever had.

Bronson Koenig was a bit of a cross-over from Ryan to Gard who kept getting better.

Brad Davison kept getting better each year. Ethan Happ (except for FTs). 

We just don't get high ceiling players so they develop up to a certain point and then plateau.  Seeing someone peak their junior year and not progress their senior year seems pretty common with our players. 

Johnny Davis was never an upperclassmen.

[Oxy]

The strange games continue vs Robert Morris.  Nothing to really complain about other than RM sticking around for too long and a too close winning margin-- but honestly their 3 point shooting was just ridiculous and ours sucked.  Normalize those percentages and it's a 20 point win.

The strangeness was in the rotations and playing time.  Last game, Isaac Lindsey was the back-up PG and McGee didn't get off the bench.  This game it was the opposite...except Hepburn and McGee ran together in order to more effectively guard RMs perimeter guys.  McGee was +17 in his 17 minutes. Has Max Klesmit been sick?  Just a complete nothing burger from MK.

There are a lot of interesting pieces with this team, but probably not enough complete pieces to put 5 guys on the floor without significant holes.  This leads to Gard needing to mix and match every game to find the magic sauce to get a W.  Some nights it will work and some nights will look ugly.

A good opportunity awaits in Fort Myers to get a couple of power 5 victories under their belt.

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 hours ago, Oxy said:

The strange games continue vs Robert Morris.  Nothing to really complain about other than RM sticking around for too long and a too close winning margin-- but honestly their 3 point shooting was just ridiculous and ours sucked.  Normalize those percentages and it's a 20 point win.

The strangeness was in the rotations and playing time.  Last game, Isaac Lindsey was the back-up PG and McGee didn't get off the bench.  This game it was the opposite...except Hepburn and McGee ran together in order to more effectively guard RMs perimeter guys.  McGee was +17 in his 17 minutes. Has Max Klesmit been sick?  Just a complete nothing burger from MK.

There are a lot of interesting pieces with this team, but probably not enough complete pieces to put 5 guys on the floor without significant holes.  This leads to Gard needing to mix and match every game to find the magic sauce to get a W.  Some nights it will work and some nights will look ugly.

A good opportunity awaits in Fort Myers to get a couple of power 5 victories under their belt.

GG mentioned how McGee practiced well the last couple days before Friday. The competition for minutes is that close, that something like that can make all the difference.

Klesmit has been an enigma, for sure. But just like Essegian, he's proven to be effective, even if he just plays at the same level as last year. Hopefully they put it together at some point.

On another note, Gus Yalden was in uniform for the UT & Providence games, but was deemed "unavailable" yesterday. I'm guessing he's deciding whether to redshirt. If he were to play right now, from what I've heard it sounds like whatever offense he'd give you would be more than given up on the other end.

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 hours ago, Oxy said:

 but honestly their 3 point shooting was just ridiculous and ours sucked.  Normalize those percentages and it's a 20 point win.

It was getting to the point in the 2nd half where they'd be defended really well for 28 seconds, then someone would get something off in desperation, & you knew, you just KNEW............

They shot it well in their previous game, and in their first two I think were around 25% from three. Hopefully a little payback coming from the basketball gods.

[CheezWizHed]

On 11/18/2023 at 5:22 AM, Oxy said:

Johnny Davis was never an upperclassmen.

Context was "stronger, better and more skilled" than as freshman, which he did significantly a sophomore.  Can't blame Gard because he jumped to the NBA before becoming an "upperclassman" (or maybe Gard developed him too well?).  

Clearly JD must be included in Gard's development dossier. 

[RedStickBrew]

Fairly predictable low scoring 1st half. WI has tightened up the D a bit but VA has also missed plenty of open looks. 

[RedStickBrew]

Good to see Crowl being aggressive on both ends of the floor. It really helps open things up offensively especially 

[homer]

First game I've been able to watch this year.  They looked great on both ends. Blackwell is gonna be a stud eventually.

[Jim French Stepstool]

The good news, the Hepburn-Mcgee-Blackwell combo provided great halfcourt defense, again. The better news, so did everyone else. No excuse to not continue the energy on that end because it looks like there's depth--depth that can defend--to give guys a blow. At least from what we saw today, that includes Gilmore. He had a very confident look to his game.

Klesmit was very solid, hopefully the funk is over for him. Next up (hopefully) Essegian. He actually looked OK guarding in his brief minutes. And Wahl, after a frustrating start, just kept playing & had a great 2nd half.

[Jim French Stepstool]

20 minutes ago, homer said:

 Blackwell is gonna be a stud eventually.

Such a bonus to be able to look down the bench & find someone with his athleticism & energy. And he's making shots, which if I was a betting man I'd say the coaches weren't expecting quite yet. As long as Klesmit gives them performances like today I'd keep Blackwell in this role.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, RedStickBrew said:

Good to see Crowl being aggressive on both ends of the floor. It really helps open things up offensively especially 

Agree 100%. Real assertive on both ends. And defending w/o fouling, which was true of just about everyone today.