2023-24 Wisconsin Basketball season thread

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Northwestern and Wisconsin are weird mirrors of each other. Cats have had an easier schedule and are a little worse defensively, but they play a bit more together and create way more easy shot with movement and screening action. They also have Buie, who is a constant scoring threat. Those two things make a lot of difference. 

Do the numbers say NW is worse defensively? If true that's surprising to me. Eye test-wise, when I've seen them I feel they guard much better than we do.

The level Collins gets them to play at, despite recent injuries, is very impressive.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Do the numbers say NW is worse defensively? If true that's surprising to me. Eye test-wise, when I've seen them I feel they guard much better than we do.

The level Collins gets them to play at, despite recent injuries, is very impressive.

Yeah, KenPom has Northwestern at 86 in defensive efficiency. They were like 64 before getting torched by Iowa today, and they're also having some injury troubles, like you said. I'm impressed by them, but a lot of it is just that Buie is a killer. Put him on UW's roster, and this team has 4 more wins. So much of the Badgers' struggles are just not having a guy that scores. They're so much more balanced than, say, those Alando Tucker teams, but man did 'Do win them a bunch of games just by getting buckets.

After today, I'm firming up in Essegian needing more minutes, especially in these kind of games. You need the jump-shooting threat, and I'm not sure the defensive downgrade is big enough to offset it. This is a year I'd like to see more tactical switching too. I know the program is historical averse to ever running a zone, but, if you're ever going to throw it in on a couple of possessions, it'd be this year. Nobody'd be prepped for it, and your man-to-man has gotten crushed for the last few weeks. Plus, it does allow you some personnel flexibility. You could even play a little match-up and let Chuckie go for lots of steals.

[Jim French Stepstool]

37 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Yeah, KenPom has Northwestern at 86 in defensive efficiency. They were like 64 before getting torched by Iowa today, and they're also having some injury troubles, like you said. I'm impressed by them, but a lot of it is just that Buie is a killer. Put him on UW's roster, and this team has 4 more wins. So much of the Badgers' struggles are just not having a guy that scores. They're so much more balanced than, say, those Alando Tucker teams, but man did 'Do win them a bunch of games just by getting buckets.

After today, I'm firming up in Essegian needing more minutes, especially in these kind of games. You need the jump-shooting threat, and I'm not sure the defensive downgrade is big enough to offset it. This is a year I'd like to see more tactical switching too. I know the program is historical averse to ever running a zone, but, if you're ever going to throw it in on a couple of possessions, it'd be this year. Nobody'd be prepped for it, and your man-to-man has gotten crushed for the last few weeks. Plus, it does allow you some personnel flexibility. You could even play a little match-up and let Chuckie go for lots of steals.

I'm perfectly fine with a team mixing in a zone from time to time. Dick Bennett had what he called his 2-3 "hustle zone", and I remember him going to it for stretches & really disrupting an opponent. The problem is, I'm sure we practice it either very, very little, or not at all. I suspect the theory from Gard is to do fewer things & do them well, and of course he learned under a coach to whom a zone is something that you pay extra for when leaving it when you make a long-distance call in the 1960s. Plus I doubt he or anyone else anticipated the man-to-man struggling so mightily. It isn't without merit-----Storr has some length as does Blackwell, and it gives you pretty much your only chance of playing Winter with Crowl if you ever choose to do so. I just think, at this stage, it's akin to overhauling the batting mechanics of a Joey Wiemer in late August. I'd have zero problem with it being an occasional bullet in the chamber next season.

Every time Connor comes in I'm pulling for him to knock down a shot or two & maybe get more of a run. But not only did he miss his first look today, but made a couple dumb plays besides. Granted it was in a blowout, but his season high came against Rutgers who's coming in Thursday. So stay tuned I guess.

[Jim French Stepstool]

58 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

 So much of the Badgers' struggles are just not having a guy that scores. 

The first 20 games, that was Storr. He's definitely being coached to get to the rim more, which I'm fine with. But in retrospect maybe he's looser & more confident when they simply give him more leeway & live with the occasional bad shots as a lot of those went in in December & January.

Maybe give him the freedom they gave Johnny Davis, even though they aren't similar players.🤷‍♂️

[Jim French Stepstool]

Today also further cemented something I've felt for awhile---boy do they miss McGee.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

8 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'm perfectly fine with a team mixing in a zone from time to time. Dick Bennett had what he called his 2-3 "hustle zone", and I remember him going to it for stretches & really disrupting an opponent. The problem is, I'm sure we practice it either very, very little, or not at all. I suspect the theory from Gard is to do fewer things & do them well, and of course he learned under a coach to whom a zone is something that you pay extra for when leaving it when you make a long-distance call in the 1960s. Plus I doubt he or anyone else anticipated the man-to-man struggling so mightily. It isn't without merit-----Storr has some length as does Blackwell, and it gives you pretty much your only chance of playing Winter with Crowl if you ever choose to do so. I just think, at this stage, it's akin to overhauling the batting mechanics of a Joey Wiemer in late August. I'd have zero problem with it being an occasional bullet in the chamber next season.

Every time Connor comes in I'm pulling for him to knock down a shot or two & maybe get more of a run. But not only did he miss his first look today, but made a couple dumb plays besides. Granted it was in a blowout, but his season high came against Rutgers who's coming in Thursday. So stay tuned I guess.

This makes sense to me too.

The more I think about it, the more I think maybe it's not worth trying to change what this team is. They're good! But neither as good as they felt in January or as bad as they've felt for the last month.

[yourout]

59 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

This makes sense to me too.

The more I think about it, the more I think maybe it's not worth trying to change what this team is. They're good! But neither as good as they felt in January or as bad as they've felt for the last month.

I still maintain that over the second half of the season the Badgers haven't changed that much. its all the teams around us improved because they had much more room to grow. Badgers just got to their peak a lot earlier

[LouisEly]

Illinois is on some type of roll right now.

The previous game they played Minnesota.  Minnesota scored 97 points, shot 70% from 3, and committed 5 turnovers.

And Illinois won.

[Jim French Stepstool]

21 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Illinois is on some type of roll right now.

The previous game they played Minnesota.  Minnesota scored 97 points, shot 70% from 3, and committed 5 turnovers.

And Illinois won.

Yep, they're quite impressive offensively. One of those teams that can have any one of 3 or 4 guys easily go off for 25 pts in a given game. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't go deep into March. In their last 8 games, the only time they gave up less than 80 pts was at home to McDaniel-less Michigan. Now, their pace of play has much to do with that, but after watching them in person on Saturday there are some holes on that end. Not all that physical in the paint. They're susceptible to Orebs.

IMO they're one of those teams that can get hot, but to advance well into the tourney they'll have to STAY that way. Might not survive a grinder, especially if there's a post presence on the other team. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

Sounds like Kamari McGee has been practicing the past few days & is getting pretty close to returning to the floor. It may or may not be tonight, but whenever he's able to provide the energy & defensive intensity he showed earlier it'll be a welcome addition.

[yourout]

 

 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, yourout said:

 

 

 

Nice find!

Just to clarify, Batchelor is at the UW-Oshkosh satellite campus in Fond Du Lac, which is a 2 year school & plays a junior college schedule. The school is actually closing in June, so if he wants to continue playing college ball he HAS to transfer. He didn't receive much interest out of HS (Dodgeville) but putting up numbers like that indicates that his game has developed somewhat.

I wouldn't be surprised if he plays at UW-O or some other state school next season. If he garners any D-1 interest I would expect it to be from UWGB or St Thomas or someplace like that.

[yourout]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Nice find!

Just to clarify, Batchelor is at the UW-Oshkosh satellite campus in Fond Du Lac, which is a 2 year school & plays a junior college schedule. The school is actually closing in June, so if he wants to continue playing college ball he HAS to transfer. He didn't receive much interest out of HS (Dodgeville) but putting up numbers like that indicates that his game has developed somewhat.

I wouldn't be surprised if he plays at UW-O or some other state school next season. If he garners any D-1 interest I would expect it to be from UWGB or St Thomas or someplace like that.

Interesting backstory. My oldest son coached him as an eighth grade B teamer in Dodgeville.

Said he is a great kid.

[RedStickBrew]

 

welcome back

[BrewerFan]

Rutgers looks like a pretty talented team...that plays with absolutely ZERO discipline offensively. They just dribble the ball in circles, very little movement, just trying to win off the dribble. 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

During the non-conference portion of the season there was a game or two when Hepburn & McGee played on the floor together, and I was very impressed with the perimeter defense they turned in. I recall thinking Gard may have dropped the ball not going to that tandem when they had so much trouble defending Penn States' guards. Today those two, along with Blackwell, played some of the most disruptive defense I've seen all season & it took over a game that looked, for the first 24-25 minutes, all too familiar to what we've seen during the 2-7 stretch. Then McGee chips in with 11 pts as well. POTG in my book.

After McGee left with his 4th foul, Storr coming in & providing the lift that ballooned the lead to 19 was also a huge key. Crowl really came alive in the 2nd half as well.

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Rutgers looks like a pretty talented team...that plays with absolutely ZERO discipline offensively. They just dribble the ball in circles, very little movement, just trying to win off the dribble. 

 

They really rely on their defense, and their full court press that they trap out of is one of the best. Offensively they had one play where #25 came around on a simple curl & wound up with open 12-15 footers numerous times. Once we figured that out they looked lost. I think they really miss Mulcahy, the PG that transferred out. Their guards were no match for Blackwell, Hepburn & McGee once we locked in defensively.

[BrewerFan]

8 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

They really rely on their defense, and their full court press that they trap out of is one of the best. Offensively they had one play where #25 came around on a simple curl & wound up with open 12-15 footers numerous times. Once we figured that out they looked lost. I think they really miss Mulcahy, the PG that transferred out. Their guards were no match for Blackwell, Hepburn & McGee once we locked in defensively.

Sure, the defense looked good...like the old Razorbacks at times. But I saw a couple of occasions where one guy dribbled, attack, went under the basket, pulled it back out, attacked again, and then threw up a contested ~15-footer as the shot clock wound down.

And they just kinda switched off doing that for a few possessions. It was...lazy, ugly basketball. They just seemed talented, and aggressive, but not very disciplined. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

25 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Sure, the defense looked good...like the old Razorbacks at times. But I saw a couple of occasions where one guy dribbled, attack, went under the basket, pulled it back out, attacked again, and then threw up a contested ~15-footer as the shot clock wound down.

And they just kinda switched off doing that for a few possessions. It was...lazy, ugly basketball. They just seemed talented, and aggressive, but not very disciplined. 

That describes it pretty well, I think. It's like a bunch of 2-guards on the roster, but no one to get them organized & distribute.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

That describes it pretty well, I think. It's like a bunch of 2-guards on the roster, but no one to get them organized & distribute.

Sure, but that's more coaching to me. I mean, Kobe would look like Jason Kidd on that team(of course adjusted for talent level). 

Storr can do this a little, same with Jones or whoever from Marquette, but they're usually moving the ball, even if their great PGs are out. 

But what the hell do I care! It's Rutgers! Maybe all the "Fire Gard," folks can watch a talented team with poor coaching and appreciate we have a pretty damn good coach.

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

 

But what the hell do I care! It's Rutgers! Maybe all the "Fire Gard," folks can watch a talented team with poor coaching and appreciate we have a pretty damn good coach.

Many of those folks were crying for his head back when they won the B10 a couple years ago. They don't let common sense get in the way of whatever their agenda is.

I didn't hear it from where I was sitting, but apparently there were people complaining when Gard pulled McGee from the game in the 2nd half. I guess they don't understand the concept of pulling someone when they pick up their 4th foul with about 9-10 minutes left to play. I mean, talk about watching the game from the back seat of the short bus.......

I give Pikiell a bit of a pass this season. He's no John Wooden, but it really cut the head off their offense when their PG left for Washington. He had no one to fill that role--a brainy, pass first, toughness type, sort of like Davison w/o the scoring. Like you said, It really left them relying on a lot of ugly possessions.

[RedStickBrew]

17 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Many of those folks were crying for his head back when they won the B10 a couple years ago. They don't let common sense get in the way of whatever their agenda is.

I didn't hear it from where I was sitting, but apparently there were people complaining when Gard pulled McGee from the game in the 2nd half. I guess they don't understand the concept of pulling someone when they pick up their 4th foul with about 9-10 minutes left to play. I mean, talk about watching the game from the back seat of the short …….

I’m a bit disappointed with how the second half of this season has gone but the Gard hate by some is just crazy. 

In regards to McGee getting pulled, not only was it his 4th foul, it was also his first game action in quite a while and he logged pretty big minutes already. He looked pretty gassed to me.

I am relatively optimistic about the future.  Freitag coming in next year should help the team speed, athleticism, etc. Hopefully improvement by Winter with others returning should make for another decent team.  One thing that might change my mind on Gard is if recruiting really starts to fall off- he does need to step that up some IMO

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

50 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

 

I am relatively optimistic about the future.  Freitag coming in next year should help the team speed, athleticism, etc. Hopefully improvement by Winter with others returning should make for another decent team.  One thing that might change my mind on Gard is if recruiting really starts to fall off- he does need to step that up some IMO

 

There's a ton of talent in the next three recruiting classes in Wisconsin HS basketball, especially '25 & '27. They're working really hard on the '25 class & have Zack Kinziger from DePere committed. I'd describe him as a Ben Brust type with a little PG skill sprinkled in although he's a 2G. Word is they probably have Will Garlock (6'10") from Middleton if they want him, but I suspect they're waiting on Kai Rogers from Tosa West to decide first. He's being recruited nationally. And there are a few other talented wings led by Davion Hannah of Nicolet & Xzavion Mitchell from Oshkosh North.

Nice thing about Freitag is he can play either guard spot before taking over at PG. Gard is IMO targeting the right guys. This is still a program that's largely about development & projection (Wahl, Crowl, Blackwell). But with some of the talent the state is churning out, yeah, you certainly want to snag your share.

[Samurai Bucky]

On 3/8/2024 at 5:19 AM, BrewerFan said:

But what the hell do I care! It's Rutgers! Maybe all the "Fire Gard," folks can watch a talented team with poor coaching and appreciate we have a pretty damn good coach.

IIRC, Alando Tucker's attempted mutiny helped contribute to Gard's perception years go.

I do see that some things need to change, though.  I know there have been some changes in the rules on the defensive end, but the Wisconsin defense is poor.  Is that a coaching thing, or is it a talent thing?

I'm sure it is me, but it seemed like earlier in the year, guys weren't afraid of taking open shots early in the shot clock.  Even if there was somebody who was "almost" contesting, they would shoot.  That freedom and confidence produced better results.  Now, it seems like players are afraid to shoot.  Chucky had a handful of open looks in the lane with nobody around him against Rutgers.  He is not looking to score -- and he is coached to do that.

The turnovers against Rutgers, even before the circus at the end of the game, were very poor and very un-Wisconsin (even un-Gard) like.  Tyler Wahl is a good player and all, but it seems like he is a turnover waiting to happen.  Yes, I know he averages only 1.7 TOs a game, but his bad games seem to go one-for-one with his good games.

I'm not sure what to make of the team for the remainder of the year.  Are the Jekyll, or are they Hyde?  I think they will still make the NCAA tournament and for those of us who were fans before 1994, we will be happy with the berth.

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

IIRC, Alando Tucker's attempted mutiny helped contribute to Gard's perception years go.

I do see that some things need to change, though.  I know there have been some changes in the rules on the defensive end, but the Wisconsin defense is poor.  Is that a coaching thing, or is it a talent thing?

I'm sure it is me, but it seemed like earlier in the year, guys weren't afraid of taking open shots early in the shot clock.  Even if there was somebody who was "almost" contesting, they would shoot.  That freedom and confidence produced better results.  Now, it seems like players are afraid to shoot.  Chucky had a handful of open looks in the lane with nobody around him against Rutgers.  He is not looking to score -- and he is coached to do that.

The turnovers against Rutgers, even before the circus at the end of the game, were very poor and very un-Wisconsin (even un-Gard) like.  Tyler Wahl is a good player and all, but it seems like he is a turnover waiting to happen.  Yes, I know he averages only 1.7 TOs a game, but his bad games seem to go one-for-one with his good games.

I'm not sure what to make of the team for the remainder of the year.  Are the Jekyll, or are they Hyde?  I think they will still make the NCAA tournament and for those of us who were fans before 1994, we will be happy with the berth.

I mentioned awhile back that maybe Storr needs to be given a little more freedom, that we should just learn to live with the questionable looks as long as attacking the hoop is still foremost in his mind. I wonder if he was talked to towards that end because he was very effective vs Rutgers, especially in the 2nd half.

Don't know what the true answer to the defensive woes are regarding people like Klesmit, Crowl & Wahl. I thought those three were adequate to good defensively in the past but have been very hit-and-miss this season. I know when Hepburn, McGee & Blackwell were in the game together Thursday, they were disruptive & RU had no chance of getting anything established. Their guards were pretty poor at decision making anyway, but still a major improvement.

Hepburn passed up a couple great looks Thursday (one ended up in a made three) but he's been looking to score more recently. I trust his decision-making.

Until the loonytunes performance late from Lindsay & Essegian, I think UW turned the ball over something like twice in the 2nd half. Cleaning that up after halftime is par for the course, but I agree the early ones are pretty inexcusable. Agree, Wahl needs to be better.

As for Tucker, all I'll say is the blue font you used didn't need to be blue.