MLB 2023/2024 Free Agency Thread

[TURBO]

Giants sign Soler, 3 years 42 million.  Comes out to 14 million per season.

They will probably regret this decision in year 3 of this contract.  Maybe even in year 2.

If that was the going rate, I'm glad we were not in on that.  I'd have been fine with one year at 14 million, but no more.

 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

30 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Giants sign Soler, 3 years 42 million.  Comes out to 14 million per season.

They will probably regret this decision in year 3 of this contract.  Maybe even in year 2.

If that was the going rate, I'm glad we were not in on that.  I'd have been fine with one year at 14 million, but no more.

 

 

If he is their DH, absolutely no reason to be worried about years 2 and 3 of this contract.  Soler is 31, not 38.  

If the Giants plan to play him alot in the field, then yes this is a bad contract.  But I would have loved the Brewers to sign this guy to be their DH the next 3 seasons at that cost.

[wallus]

Assuming the Brewers could have signed him to that same contract, you pretty much had the option of Soler for 3 years at that money or Junis and Sanchez on one year contracts. The MO of the team seems to be to stick to short contracts that can't hurt you a ton.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just now, wallus said:

Assuming the Brewers could have signed him to that same contract, you pretty much had the option of Soler for 3 years at that money or Junis and Sanchez on one year contracts. The MO of the team seems to be to stick to short contracts that can't hurt you a ton.

True, but I also don't see a 3 yr contract for an established free agent DH in his early 30s to be a huge risk, and I think dramatically upgrading their weakest offensive position from last season is more valuable than what amounts to marginal upgrades/status quo at two roster spots with basically the same financial cost.  Particularly when the Brewers are already flush with catchers even without Sanchez.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

12 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

True, but I also don't see a 3 yr contract for an established free agent DH in his early 30s to be a huge risk, and I think dramatically upgrading their weakest offensive position from last season is more valuable than what amounts to marginal upgrades/status quo at two roster spots with basically the same financial cost.  Particularly when the Brewers are already flush with catchers even without Sanchez.

The Brewers are also flush with OFers, and Yelich's effectiveness in the OF isn't going to get any better as he ages. Unless he makes the move to 1B after Hoskins leaves, he'll eventually be the primary DH.

[Fear The Chorizo]

28 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

The Brewers are also flush with OFers, and Yelich's effectiveness in the OF isn't going to get any better as he ages. Unless he makes the move to 1B after Hoskins leaves, he'll eventually be the primary DH.

Soler is NOT an OF in my book, so the fact the Brewers have a trio of prearbitration OFs + Chourio who all play quality defense but haven't proven to be above average hitters for their positions doesn't really change my mind on what a hitter like Soler would have been to this roster the next 3 seasons.  He'd have been this roster's primary DH, Hoskins is the roster's primary 1B for 2024 - then the team doesn't have to get cute overplaying Yelich/Contreras at DH when they should be getting actual days off during the season.

And Yelich will not become a primary DH for this roster making $25+M a season, even if the Brewers have a bunch of good and young defensive OFs....at least until more than one of them (Chourio, Mitchell, Frelick, Wiemer) prove to be plus offensively for the OF positions they play. 

This is all besides the point with Soler now a Giant....although I'd have a similar take on JD Martinez for a 1-2 year deal as well. 

[CheezWizHed]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:26 PM, TURBO said:

 

I'm sorry, you've hit your cap limit on the number of times to post this picture this season.  Please try again next season.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

29 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

And Yelich will not become a primary DH for this roster making $25+M a season, even if the Brewers have a bunch of good and young defensive OFs....at least until more than one of them (Chourio, Mitchell, Frelick, Wiemer) prove to be plus offensively for the OF positions they play.

I hope you are right, and Yelich will be able to continue playing the OF at an acceptable level into his mid-30s. I am skeptical that is going to happen, though. 

[wallus]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

True, but I also don't see a 3 yr contract for an established free agent DH in his early 30s to be a huge risk, and I think dramatically upgrading their weakest offensive position from last season is more valuable than what amounts to marginal upgrades/status quo at two roster spots with basically the same financial cost.  Particularly when the Brewers are already flush with catchers even without Sanchez.

I was the biggest advocate to signing Soler on this board so I won't disagree. I understand the reasoning to signing another vet pitcher and a guy that can be your backup catcher (and a much better one than Haase and Nola) and DH against LHP. 

I am guessing the plan would be to have Yelich be the DH as soon as 2025 and then Soler has nowhere to play as he is pretty much a DH only at this point.

[jerichoholicninja]

Soler is so inconsistent there's no way you can give him multiple years. Factor in he's near the downside of his career and it just doesn't make sense.

[Outlander]

Soler kind of reminds me of Avisal Garcia with worse defense. I thought he might have ended up having to take a 1 year deal which is a Brewers Special. However, would not want him on this team for three year

[Fear The Chorizo]

9 minutes ago, Outlander said:

Soler kind of reminds me of Avisal Garcia with worse defense. I thought he might have ended up having to take a 1 year deal which is a Brewers Special. However, would not want him on this team for three year

Soler is a better hitter with more power than Garcia, and he is a DH.  Not a comparable player just because Soler played OF when he was younger.  

Again, if the Giants play Soler consistently in the OF, this contract is a mistake because his lack of defensive ability and propensity to get injured out there will negate his bat.  If they take away his glove and tell him to just worry about hitting 0.250 with 35+ HR and an OPS over 0.800 the next 3 seasons from the 5 or 6 spot in their order, this contract is a steal.

[jerichoholicninja]

25 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Soler is a better hitter with more power than Garcia, and he is a DH.  Not a comparable player just because Soler played OF when he was younger.  

Again, if the Giants play Soler consistently in the OF, this contract is a mistake because his lack of defensive ability and propensity to get injured out there will negate his bat.  If they take away his glove and tell him to just worry about hitting 0.250 with 35+ HR and an OPS over 0.800 the next 3 seasons from the 5 or 6 spot in their order, this contract is a steal.

He's only had 2 seasons like that his whole career. One was the super ball year and the other was last year - his contract year. Hitting in SF I doubt he puts up those numbers for even one season.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Someone explain it to me, based on a lot hitting metrics Soler isn't that much better than Sanchez.  Sanchez is cheaper and can play catcher decently.  Soler is an absolute butcher in the field and more expensive.  I don't see the appeal at all for the Brewers.

The giants absolutely need a power hitter so I can see why they went for it but I wouldn't want that contract on the Brewers.

[sveumrules]

7 hours ago, AdvantageSchneider said:

Someone explain it to me, based on a lot hitting metrics Soler isn't that much better than Sanchez.  Sanchez is cheaper and can play catcher decently.  Soler is an absolute butcher in the field and more expensive.  I don't see the appeal at all for the Brewers.

The giants absolutely need a power hitter so I can see why they went for it but I wouldn't want that contract on the Brewers.

Yeah, last three years it’s…

Sanchez (1178 PAs)
99 wRC+ | +15.8 DEF | 4.6 WAR

Soler (1488 PAs)
109 wRC+ | -36.8 DEF | 2.0 WAR

Soler is a great example for how high the bar is for bat only players to provide any meaningful value.

Last year he put up a 126 wRC+, that’s good, but still only worth 1.9 WAR when all you can do is DH on account of brutal OF defense.

The two years before that where he put up 908 PAs of only a 98 wRC+ he was a fraction above replacement level at 0.1 WAR, 147th of 151 players with at least 900 PAs from 2021-22.

[Fear The Chorizo]

56 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Yeah, last three years it’s…

Sanchez (1178 PAs)
99 wRC+ | +15.8 DEF | 4.6 WAR

Soler (1488 PAs)
109 wRC+ | -36.8 DEF | 2.0 WAR

Soler is a great example for how high the bar is for bat only players to provide any meaningful value.

Last year he put up a 126 wRC+, that’s good, but still only worth 1.9 WAR when all you can do is DH on account of brutal OF defense.

The two years before that where he put up 908 PAs of only a 98 wRC+ he was a fraction above replacement level at 0.1 WAR, 147th of 151 players with at least 900 PAs from 2021-22.

I think metrics in determining overall player value for DHs aren't worth very much - particularly when part of the argument against Soler being a valuable hitter for the next 3 seasons as a DH continues to lean on defensive metrics from earlier in his career that discount the offensive production he provided while playing a butcher in left or right field.   To me, a primary DH's value is better measured by traditional counting stats as an offensive player in the middle of a lineup - once it gets more nuanced beyond OPS I stop paying attention.  

Sanchez's career OPS is 780, while Soler's is 797.  Comparable, but Soler is a better hitter despite being pretty inconsistent due primarily to injury history in recent years.  Also, Sanchez hasn't had a season that significantly outperformed his career average OPS since 2019.  Soler OPS'd 0.853 last season.

 

 

[sveumrules]

6 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

particularly when part of the argument against Soler being a valuable hitter for the next 3 seasons as a DH continues to lean on defensive metrics from earlier in his career

The metrics aren’t just from earlier in his career, among 102 OF with at least 1,400 innings from 2021-23 Soler comes in at -17 DRS (93rd), -12 OAA (91st) and -10.9 UZR (95th).

The argument against him being a valuable hitter for the next three years from age 32-34 is that he was only a valuable hitter for one of the previous three seasons from age 29-31.

[Fear The Chorizo]

12 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

The metrics aren’t just from earlier in his career, among 102 OF with at least 1,400 innings from 2021-23 Soler comes in at -17 DRS (93rd), -12 OAA (91st) and -10.9 UZR (95th).

The argument against him being a valuable hitter for the next three years from age 32-34 is that he was only a valuable hitter for one of the previous three seasons from age 29-31.

Soler.is.a.primary.DH.at.this.stage.in.his.career....I don't care about his defensive runs saved stats no matter when they were from.

Two of those years he wasn't the primary DH and also spent a significant amount of time on the IL.  I'd also wager the Braves thought Soler's time in Atlanta in 2021 was pretty darn valuable when he OPS'd close to 0.900 for them.  Soler's injury history is definitely a concern, but getting him out of the outfield most of the time and just putting a bat in his hands, like what the Marlins did with Soler last season, absolutely makes him worth 3 years and $42M at ages ~32-34.

[DR28]

Im guessing the Sanchez signing probably makes the JDM wish, a pipedream now.

Bet we see a Bauers/Sanchez platoon at DH... We should have signed Joc Pederson to be our LH side of DH.

[sveumrules]

46 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I'd also wager the Braves thought Soler's time in Atlanta in 2021 was pretty darn valuable when he OPS'd close to 0.900 for them.

Right, even after winning World Series MVP with the Braves they didn’t think he was worth retaining at the 3/36 with  two opt outs he got from the Marlins.

[brewmann04]

still not to late to add a Fa  

[brewerfan82]

Pitchers and catchers are reporting today/tomorrow and there's still a lot of quality players looking for jobs (https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/free-agent-tracker):

• 7 of the 32 FAs proj for at least 1.5 fWAR still available
• 5 of the 18 FAs proj for 1.0-1.4 fWAR still available
• 16 of the 43 FAs proj for 0.5-0.9 fWAR still available

That's over 30% of the top 93 FAs!

[TURBO]

How many of them are Boras clients?

[TURBO]

I know Cabrera has been a target of many people here, the latest news:

According to Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the Pirates are in active trade talks with the Marlins to acquire right-hander Edward Cabrera.

 

Mackey confirms that the Pirates remain in active discussions to acquire a starter both via trade and free agency, but talks with the Marlins appear to have gained steam, and Cabrera is the pitcher they are most willing to part with. While the 25-year-old has plus raw stuff and has pitched to a 4.01 ERA with 221 strikeouts in 197 2/3 innings (41 starts), he also has some major problems with control. In his brief career, he averages 5.4 batters walked per nine innings, which has some people believing he fits best as a reliever. If the Pirates were to acquire him, they would certainly slot him into the rotation, but their previous inability to develop starters like Tyler Glasnow, Joe Musgrove, and Gerrit Cole makes it questionable that they would be able to fix Cabrera’s command issues. Additionally, if the trade were to happen, it would seemingly give A.J. Puk the inside track to make the Marlins rotation.

 

3h ago

Source: Pittsbugh Post-Gazette

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

How many of them are Boras clients?

I believe of the 5 remaining top 25 MLB free agents heading into this offseason that haven't yet signed a contract, all 5 are Boras clients.