How do $750 million dollar contracts compare to "baseball cards", "County Stadium" and the joy of "Let's Play Two? The Field of Dreams is becoming just that... a far away dream.

[Rick Daltons Flamethrower]

I remember the days of collecting baseball cards and cheering for my favorite players. Saving up for the cards and reading over and over the stats on the back. Reading the Sporting News magazine. Cheering on teams with incredible players like Bob Gibson of the Cardinals and the 4 twenty game winners of the Orioles who also had gold glovers like Brooks Robinson, Paul Blair and Davey Johnson. Yaz hitting for the triple crown. Small town Pittsburgh Pirates winning the World Series. The Big Red Machine of Cincinnati. The Washington Senators and White Sox playing at County Stadium when there was no Milwaukee team. The Pilot's moving to Milwaukee. Jumping off the dugout onto County Stadium's field to celebrate the American League Chamionship in 82. My kids memories and their childrens will be choked off and overun by the greed of the present times. The addage of Ernie Banks "Lets play two!" has been replaced by money, money and more money.   $750 million dollar contract to play ball. The Field of Dreams is becoming just that... a far away dream. 

[Frisbee Slider]

Baseball is so popular that there are billions of dollars spent on it each year. We can watch and measure every baseball game from countless angles, 365 days per year.

I suppose it’s fair for one the best hitters and pitchers (who is the same person) to receive $700 million when the value he brings to his organization is actually probably more than that.

I’m not sure I’d want to go back to a time when I couldn’t watch 99% of Brewers games live on tv. Or, from my phone. 

[TBBrewCrew]

I want players to earn as much as they can.

I want an affordable experience for fans.

 

Unfortunately, these two desires are at complete odds with one another. 

[Axman59]

You can still go to the ballpark for a reasonable amount of money. In Milwaukee the basic ticket prices are not insane (yet) and ticket deals are out there if you look. You can tailgate and eat your own food and even bring things into the stadium to eat and drink.

And you can watch nearly every game on TV if you want with nothing more than the cost of basic cable or the right streaming service. In the 1970's and 1980's how many TV games did we get a year? Nothing close to what we get now.

The game is accessible if you want it to be. The biggest problem going forward is not cost but the younger generations that have an attention span that does not exceed 60 seconds.

 

 

 

Edit - Does anyone know how many games a year were televised for the Brewers in the 70's and 80's? As I recall it was only about 20-30. That said, I lived in the Madison media market during that time so maybe they carried only a small portion of what the Milwaukee market was getting.

[homer]

22 minutes ago, Axman59 said:

Edit - Does anyone know how many games a year were televised for the Brewers in the 70's and 80's? As I recall it was only about 20-30. That said, I lived in the Madison media market during that time so maybe they carried only a small portion of what the Milwaukee market was getting.

They never broadcast home games unless it was a national broadcast (and even then, were there blackout rules?). 30 seems about right. 

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, TBBrewCrew said:

I want players to earn as much as they can.

I want an affordable experience for fans.

 

Unfortunately, these two desires are at complete odds with one another. 

The cost of games isn't the players fault. If you want to blame anyone, it's the fans fault.

If the Brewers payroll was 20M or 200M, the Brewers would be charging the same for the team each year. 

Owners wouldn't sacrifice less money just because they had lower costs and they can't raise ticket prices because they have higher costs. 

The Guardians went from a nearly 160 in payroll to cutting it in half and they raised ticket prices.

Owners are going to maximize profits no matter what...just like it doesn't matter that your Jordan's only cost 9 bucks to make, you're still paying 399 for them or your Iphone or whatever else it is that people are willing to pay for despite very low..."labor" costs. 

[TURBO]

Growing up, I don't remember a lot of Brewers games being on TV. 

My Dad and I listened on the radio the majority of the time. 

I remember in the 80's, it was an absolute treat if the Brewers were on TV.  So much different seeing them, than just hearing Uecker describe the game and action.

[owbc]

I'd rather have the money go to the players than the owners. Nothing makes me happier than knowing how many of these billionaires feel poor after having no hope of signing Ohtani. While having to address a TV/RSN crisis that is of their own making. 

I talk to people my age (millennial) all the time who say they are baseball fans but don't watch the games because they don't have a cable account, so no TV access. 

Here's my optimistic take -- in 10 years most MLB fans will enjoy easier TV access than today with no blackouts.  

[TURBO]

17 minutes ago, owbc said:

I'd rather have the money go to the players than the owners.

I get it, but with no owners, there is no MLB.

 

[owbc]

4 minutes ago, TURBO said:

I get it, but with no owners, there is no MLB.

 

I don't understand what you're saying. 

[TBBrewCrew]

48 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

The cost of games isn't the players fault. If you want to blame anyone, it's the fans fault.

If the Brewers payroll was 20M or 200M, the Brewers would be charging the same for the team each year. 

Owners wouldn't sacrifice less money just because they had lower costs and they can't raise ticket prices because they have higher costs. 

The Guardians went from a nearly 160 in payroll to cutting it in half and they raised ticket prices.

Owners are going to maximize profits no matter what...just like it doesn't matter that your Jordan's only cost 9 bucks to make, you're still paying 399 for them or your Iphone or whatever else it is that people are willing to pay for despite very low..."labor" costs. 

 

If the long-term outlook for the Brewers salary was $20 million per year for the foreseeable future versus $200 million per year for the foreseeable future you can guarantee that the prices of tickets, merchandise, etc would be different. 

Saying that the largest expense for a company/team (salary) has no impact on the prices it charges flies in the face of every business everywhere, and plain old logic. Citing one teams temporary reduction in salary is not proof of anything.

Yes, every business owner wants to make a profit, and if they can charge more without incurring extra expense, they will. Just like players would love to make more money with little to no extra work. This doesn't negate the relationship between players making more and fans paying more. Fans, after all, are the majority of the Revenue component of this business, if not ultimately the sole component.

[AKCheesehead]

Reading this thread got me feeling nostalgic for the old channel 47 broadcasts and promos of the 80s.  Fortunately YouTube had something to scratch that itch.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpyGZ-lngQ

[BrewerFan]

43 minutes ago, TBBrewCrew said:

 

If the long-term outlook for the Brewers salary was $20 million per year for the foreseeable future versus $200 million per year for the foreseeable future you can guarantee that the prices of tickets, merchandise, etc would be different. 

Saying that the largest expense for a company/team (salary) has no impact on the prices it charges flies in the face of every business everywhere, and plain old logic. Citing one teams temporary reduction in salary is not proof of anything.

Yes, every business owner wants to make a profit, and if they can charge more without incurring extra expense, they will. Just like players would love to make more money with little to no extra work. This doesn't negate the relationship between players making more and fans paying more. Fans, after all, are the majority of the Revenue component of this business, if not ultimately the sole component.

No, I cannot, nor can you.

And no, saying that salary and ticket prices have no correlation does not fly in the face of every business everywhere, it's basic economics. The owners aren't going to charge less than they can get irrespective of their expenses. 

This is the case in every sport, but particularly in Baseball. 

https://sheabridge.substack.com/p/payroll-doesnt-determine-ticket-prices

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/72886/veteran-presence-the-relationship-between-player-salaries-and-ticket-prices/#:~:text=Teams don't use analytics,t enter into that calculation.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Nothing makes me happier than knowing how many of these billionaires feel poor after having no hope of signing Ohtani. 

I sincerely hope you've got more going on than this that puts a smile on your face!  Because I guarantee that none of them feel poor, lol.  Reality is probably more than 2/3 of those owners/front offices feel smart knowing there's zero chance Ohtani's onfield production is worth anywhere close to 700 million dollars over the next 10 seasons as Ohtani ages from 30-40ish - if their focus is on-the-field success.  Just ask the Angels how having the best two players in this generation over the past ~6 years has helped them win titles.

People knew at the start of the 2023 season where Ohtani was going to sign (Dodgers, in LA, west coast in same market he broke into the league with the Angels, only team with a TV contract large enough to offset the payroll hit + luxury tax problems it will incur annually), kudos to him for getting a monumental mountain of cash to DH 90+% of the games over the next decade in LA - that doesn' t mean the rest of MLB are all going to cry poor about not having to deal with that kind of a payroll hit when trying to field a competitive team with the other 25 roster spots.

[jerichoholicninja]

So basically...

Grr, those greedy owners hoarding their money and not spending it on players.

(Ohtani signs for eleventy bajillion dollars)

Grr, no player is worth that much and it's only going to make things more expensive for fans.

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, jerichoholicninja said:

So basically...

Grr, those greedy owners hoarding their money and not spending it on players.

(Ohtani signs for eleventy bajillion dollars)

Grr, no player is worth that much and it's only going to make things more expensive for fans.

Just admit it man, you are a Dodgers fan.

Nothing else makes sense in the way you are defending them, and to a small market fan board to boot.

I never got this vibe from you before, but go ahead, come out of that Dodger closet and go get yourself an authentic Ohtani jersey!

[jerichoholicninja]

2 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Just admit it man, you are a Dodgers fan.

Nothing else makes sense in the way you are defending them, and to a small market fan board to boot.

I never got this vibe from you before, but go ahead, come out of that Dodger closet and go get yourself an authentic Ohtani jersey!

Umm. Ok. I just don't understand why everyone is flipping their lid over this. Mostly just Dodger hatred probably. If he would have went to Toronto for $650 million everyone would have just been fine that?

[Axman59]

2 hours ago, TURBO said:

Just admit it man, you are a Dodgers fan.

Nothing else makes sense in the way you are defending them, and to a small market fan board to boot.

I never got this vibe from you before, but go ahead, come out of that Dodger closet and go get yourself an authentic Ohtani jersey!

Seriously? You don't have to be a Dodgers fan to not be offended by this turn of events. While I don't like what's going down, I am thoroughly amused with the people claiming the Dodgers are "cheating" or somehow ruining baseball for everyone or demanding changes to the CBA.

[Axman59]

10 hours ago, AKCheesehead said:

Reading this thread got me feeling nostalgic for the old channel 47 broadcasts and promos of the 80s.  Fortunately YouTube had something to scratch that itch.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpyGZ-lngQ

Nice. Channel 47 is what I watched in the 80's since I was in the Madison market. Steve Shannon and Mike Hegan.

[torts]

I'm not against deferring money from contracts, I just think there needs to be a limit per year in the CBA.   Like you can only defer 50% of the contract value for as many years as you want.  If MLB had a salary cap, the aav of the contract would be the cap hit (like the NHL), but we don't have that, we have a lux tax based solely off the paid contracts at the end of a season.  So a team who will spend to that tax threshold each year gains an unfair advantage to "less rich" owners and franchises, especially when they know the tax also impacts potential draft picks.  

[CheezWizHed]

I'm pretty sure BF has had a thread like this every offseason back to when Paul Molitor left for Toronto. Rich owners spending money on rich players that will make more in a season than I do in my life.

I'm kind of over it.  We are a small market team.  For the most part over the last 10-15 years, we've got to watch winning baseball. 

I'm curious what pleasure people get about pointing this out year after year?

[Rick Daltons Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

I'm pretty sure BF has had a thread like this every offseason back to when Paul Molitor left for Toronto. Rich owners spending money on rich players that will make more in a season than I do in my life.

I'm kind of over it.  We are a small market team.  For the most part over the last 10-15 years, we've got to watch winning baseball. 

I'm curious what pleasure people get about pointing this out year after year?

 IMHO Sometimes it's ok to just feel sad. It's part of the grieving process. It's honest.

[hawing]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:31 AM, AKCheesehead said:

Reading this thread got me feeling nostalgic for the old channel 47 broadcasts and promos of the 80s.  Fortunately YouTube had something to scratch that itch.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpyGZ-lngQ

As another who remembers the early days of FOX 47 in Madison, I checked out that video and OMG the promo at about 1:30 in.  "What do you do when your opponent desperately needs to win to wrap up a division pennant and YOU desperately need to win to finish even and stay out of last place?" 

Besides that being just sad in a very late-1980s Brewers way, I'm surprised the promo was game-specific.  I don't remember those at all - although the mid to late 80s were my undergrad years and I didn't always have a TV then.  

 

 

[Playing Catch]

I think this deal draws posters' ire because it represents the issue of competitive balance in baseball. For many years, this has existed, but there IS a theoretical limit as to how much more disparity baseball fans will accept before we stop wasting our time. I'm not sure we've hit that limit yet, as the Brewers have continued to remain competitive in spite of the wealth disparity.

Yesterday on MLBTV someone was musing on where Yamamoto would sign, asking, "Does he want to join a "super-team,"?" in reference to the Dodgers. I don't believe it will be good for the league in the long term to have "super-teams".

[owbc]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

I think this deal draws posters' ire because it represents the issue of competitive balance in baseball. For many years, this has existed, but there IS a theoretical limit as to how much more disparity baseball fans will accept before we stop wasting our time. I'm not sure we've hit that limit yet, as the Brewers have continued to remain competitive in spite of the wealth disparity.

Yesterday on MLBTV someone was musing on where Yamamoto would sign, asking, "Does he want to join a "super-team,"?" in reference to the Dodgers. I don't believe it will be good for the league in the long term to have "super-teams".

It's bad to have Yamamoto and Ohtani on the same team. First, the obvious one of never seeing Ohtani bat against Yamamoto. As well as robbing a fanbase of the opportunity to get excited about signing an international superstar. 

Instead, all of that excitement just goes to seeing if the Dodgers win 105 or 110 games before getting bounced in the postseason. 

If the NBA is any guide, people love to see the superteams lose, and it happens quite frequently. But in MLB we'll probably get writers moaning about how MLB's postseason format is unfair to the Dodgers.