Game 13 Packers at Giants

[nate82]

I would like to thank the Packers for keeping the Bears alive for a top 5 pick.  Really truly thank you.

[CheezWizHed]

Oof... Seems like the entire team forgot how to play football... Ball security is bad, blockers can't block, kickers couldn't kick, tacklers couldn't tackle.  Wasn't just one individual, everyone had a hand in that loss.

Doubs has double-caught several balls this year.  A few of them have resulted in an incomplete pass.  He had two of them last night - only one was incomplete.  Seems like an odd "hiccup" he needs to fix. 

Love made several bad decisions.  He wasn't sharp on his passing.  One his fumble, he simply needed to stay to the outside to get the 1st down and instead stopped his progress - then got in trouble. 

OLBs - wow did we continue to give up the edge.  Clearly we needed to stop Barkley.  Clearly we forgot about everyone else including the QB. 

Overall, probably a good learning experience for the team.  They've played well for the last 5-6 games and coming off a high of beating KC.  You have to have your A game every week.  Any given Sunday...

 

[CheezWizHed]

9 hours ago, yourout said:

One defensive coordinator saw a couple of Reed runs and knew he had to adjust while the other watched the opposing quarterback run through his defense at will and did nothing about it until it was too late.

Yes, this.  After a couple failed Reed sweeps, I was shocked we didn't clue in on the 2pt conversion... 

And I couldn't believe we didn't just spy the QB after a while. We did make one defensive adjustment... we stopped rushing the passer and were content to just keep him in the pocket.  But wow did we not adjust well.  Our OLBs gave up the edge constantly on runs - crashing in on the run fake. On pass rush, everyone just bolted upfield. We obviously thought we were coming in to get 10 sacks tonight... lost all discipline on D. 

[LouisEly]

10 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

It's really easy to blame this on Joe Barry because, in the end, when has a Joe Barry defense done anything to seal a game? This being said, and I really dislike Joe Barry and his soft as Charmin scheme...

IF you're going to blame this loss

This is exactly it.  If we're casting blame, I don't know that I'd have Joe Barry even in my top (bottom?) five:

1. Keisan Nixon fumble - directly led to a TD
2. Jordan Love fumble - if he tucks it and goes down they have ~42 yard field goal attempt
3. Jayden Reed losing a perfectly thrown pass that would have been a TD
4. Walker falling down and Runyan getting run over for a 10-yard sack resulting in a long missed FG
5. Jordan Love interception - terrible decision and throw
6. Multiple gadget plays that took a 2nd and medium to 3rd and long

[OldHeidelberg]

I was thinking during the game that we really missed Watson, I hope he is back next week. Love was not good, bad throws early, bad fumble, bad pick. But as in most of his bad games he hung in there and doesn't completely meltdown. The defense not being able to stop a QB who escapes the pocket from gashing them has been a problem all season, another hole in Barry's scheme that is easy to exploit it seems. It was an all around loss, but the defense giving up the FG on really 3 easily converted plays on the last drive is sticking with me the most this morning. Pass rush didn't get close all night. 

[homer]

paraphrasing a tweet I saw but...

Joe Barry is great at containing guys like Patrick Mahomes. The problem is he uses the same scheme to stop Kenny Pickett, Tommy DeVito, etc and they give up 205 and 209 yards on the ground.

[homer]

Also this:

...how do you play man coverage without the threat of more than four guys rushing the passer?

“We expect our guys to get to the quarterback with four,” outside linebacker Preston Smith said.

Only they hadn’t gotten to DeVito all game, despite him having the highest sack percentage of any starting quarterback in the NFL. In fact, he had run 10 times for 71 yards to that point on a combination of scrambles and read-options.

So, you would think they would either go after him or back off in a zone and try to make the Giants throw the ball in the middle of the field.

[adambr2]

54 minutes ago, homer said:

paraphrasing a tweet I saw but...

Joe Barry is great at containing guys like Patrick Mahomes. The problem is he uses the same scheme to stop Kenny Pickett, Tommy DeVito, etc and they give up 205 and 209 yards on the ground.

Absolutely inconceivable to not blitz Devito all night. A young inexperienced QB who struggles against the blitz. I would say a fireable offense, but Barry has completely redefined the term. 

Also, that last drive. There was 1:30 left and the Giants still had 2 timeouts and needed about 40 yards to get in FG range. 

Yet we played a soft shell and gave up everything underneath. Does he not know how easy it is to go 40 yards in 1:30 in the modern NFL if an opposing offense is allowed to just take what they're given underneath?

Matt Lafleur, who in a vacuum is a good HC, throws that out the window the last few years by his unexplainable love for this man. 

[Sixtolezcano]

26 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Absolutely inconceivable to not blitz Devito all night. A young inexperienced QB who struggles against the blitz. I would say a fireable offense, but Barry has completely redefined the term. 

Also, that last drive. There was 1:30 left and the Giants still had 2 timeouts and needed about 40 yards to get in FG range. 

Yet we played a soft shell and gave up everything underneath. Does he not know how easy it is to go 40 yards in 1:30 in the modern NFL if an opposing offense is allowed to just take what they're given underneath?

Matt Lafleur, who in a vacuum is a good HC, throws that out the window the last few years by his unexplainable love for this man. 

I think it might be time for Gutey to step in and give MLF an ultimatum, “Either Barry goes or you both go”. Look how much the Viking defense has improved in one year after they hired Brian Flores.

[homer]

I know everyone hates everything right now but this is pretty cool:

 

 

 

[LouisEly]

Reed was wide open, completely uncovered underneath.  Love made up his mind pre-snap who to go to.  I get that for that play to succeed you can't wait until after the receiver makes his break, but he almost didn't get in when Reed had nobody within 10 yards of him.

 

[homer]

 

 

[SeaBass]

52 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I think it might be time for Gutey to step in and give MLF an ultimatum, “Either Barry goes or you both go”. Look how much the Viking defense has improved in one year after they hired Brian Flores.

I think people need to remember that while Gutekunst is GM, he ain't in charge. The buck stops with Mark Murphy. For everything.

Gutekunst and LaFleur are equals, neither has say over the other. Russ Ball, director of football operations (i.e. salary cap guru), completes the triumvirate of this level of football management directly under Murphy. 

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2019/02/07/green-bay-packers-mark-murphy-team-management-structure-built-success/2450099002/

Quote

 

For all his authority, Murphy said he is not playing general manager or coach.

"I’ll be involved and supportive, but I’m not going to make football decisions," he said. "I’m not making decisions on who we are going to draft or who’s on the 53-man roster or whether we should pass on third-and-1. It’s completely up to Matt (to complete the coaching staff)."

Murphy prefers that the general manager and head coach collaborate, rather than one work for the other. They have clearly defined responsibilities, but there are areas where they need to work together.  

"It would be very different if Matt was reporting directly to Brian and he was a supervisor. Now there is a partnership that I think will really benefit the organization," Murphy said. "If they can't agree on something, they come to me and what I usually say is we'll sit down and I want you to work it out. And then they work it out."

 

[Sixtolezcano]

33 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

I think people need to remember that while Gutekunst is GM, he ain't in charge. The buck stops with Mark Murphy. For everything.

Gutekunst and LaFleur are equals, neither has say over the other. Russ Ball, director of football operations (i.e. salary cap guru), completes the triumvirate of this level of football management directly under Murphy. 

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2019/02/07/green-bay-packers-mark-murphy-team-management-structure-built-success/2450099002/

So are you saying that MLF is on his own and is only answerable  to himself until Murphy decides to let him go as Murphy isn’t playing GM or coach. Who breaks the tie on football decisions when Gutey and MLF disagree? There has got to be a system in place when MLF continues to make stupid decisions (Berry) where someone needs to intervene for the team’s wellbeing.

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 hours ago, homer said:

Also this:

...how do you play man coverage without the threat of more than four guys rushing the passer?

“We expect our guys to get to the quarterback with four,” outside linebacker Preston Smith said.

Only they hadn’t gotten to DeVito all game, despite him having the highest sack percentage of any starting quarterback in the NFL. In fact, he had run 10 times for 71 yards to that point on a combination of scrambles and read-options.

So, you would think they would either go after him or back off in a zone and try to make the Giants throw the ball in the middle of the field.

What's mystifying to me is when the Packers rush 4 and play coverage behind it with 7 guys consistently, that the scheme routinely has enormous gaps in the middle of the field for TEs and RBs to catch easy passes and turn upfield for huge chunk plays - and it takes Packer defenders several seconds to even get in the vicinity of those players.  It's not like the Packers don't have athletes at LB or safety that can't run - it's just that the scheme has 1 or two defenders responsible for far too much of the field that is easy for underneath and intermediate pass patterns to exploit.

Those aren't NFL windows for QBs to thread the needle to complete passes, they're more like vacant city blocks of space - it looks more like the Packers sent the house in a blitz and didn't get home, without enough people on the back end to cover everything.  Almost as if at the snap the Packers' scheme runs two DBs off the field and they're playing with 9 defenders instead of 11.

[Underachiever]

13 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Hate to say it, but that's just the going rate for literally any passable starting QB that isn't on a rookie contract. That's not even coming close to high end QB money. 

Bill Michaels was on the radio last week saying they should offer Love $12-20 mil per year, as if his fifth year option isn't already north of $20 million. Love will cost more than $30 million a year to extend, probably closer to $40. Cost of doing business. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Because they actually can't redo Love's current contract until they're into the 2024 league year, the Packers have the benefit of seeing how the rest of this season plays out AND most of the offseason before having to make a decision on Love.  They could probably wait to get a new deal done until all of the old dead money falls off the books and frontload that contract so it wouldn't be a poison pill if they want to cut him before the new deal expires.  If the Packers wind up squeaking into the playoffs and Love stays healthy, with positive signs of development, he'll get an extension offer at some point next year.