NIL/Transfer Portal

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

I can’t wait to hear the explanation for Chucky leaving. The prior portal entries all made more sense. The fact that Chucky entered the portal this late seems to me to be about his possible frustration with putting the team together for next year and the inability for UW to not close on his high school buddy Fidler. 
 

It was reported last year that Chucky was getting offers from other schools so he could have left then or earlier this year if he wanted. Timing is certainly questionable IMO

The money he was offered that led to this dwarfs what he could've gotten after the 22-23 season. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

 

I also don’t believe this outrageous money is going to be thrown around every offseason. There is no way Hepburn type players are true program changers and donors are not going to pony up that type of cash every year for those type of players. 

I would hope not, but again the system encourages it. The volume of players out there is going to be that much greater if you're allowed to leave year-to-year. It's a boon to guys at the end of the bench wanting to play competitively for the last time in their lives & realizing they can only get on the floor if they transfer do a low-major or D-2. But for the elite players it's just as advantageous. Fish around, see if someone ponies up more, and if so then announce. Otherwise stay put. Lather, rinse, repeat for four years. All you need is one high major willing to overspend.

[wallus]

I watched the least amount of college basketball I ever have last season. I am only going to care less as time goes on. I used to watch every Badgers game.

If I want to watch professional basketball, I'll watch the NBA and see the best players.

[RedStickBrew]

13 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I would hope not, but again the system encourages it. The volume of players out there is going to be that much greater if you're allowed to leave year-to-year. It's a boon to guys at the end of the bench wanting to play competitively for the last time in their lives & realizing they can only get on the floor if they transfer do a low-major or D-2. But for the elite players it's just as advantageous. Fish around, see if someone ponies up more, and if so then announce. Otherwise stay put. Lather, rinse, repeat for four years. All you need is one high major willing to overspend.

I’m basing my opinion on this from what I have learned from a friend who is a lawyer at a firm here in Baton Rouge that does the NIL contracts for LSU athletes. There are a few big donors that do the heavy lifting so to speak. Several other donors were willing to help when a Jayden Daniels or Malik Nabors needed to get paid. But it’s hard to continuously hit up small businesses and others for consistent donations for something that is not going to pay them back. I’m just hoping that market settles down a bit, it seems crazy right now 

[Jim French Stepstool]

50 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

I’m basing my opinion on this from what I have learned from a friend who is a lawyer at a firm here in Baton Rouge that does the NIL contracts for LSU athletes. There are a few big donors that do the heavy lifting so to speak. Several other donors were willing to help when a Jayden Daniels or Malik Nabors needed to get paid. But it’s hard to continuously hit up small businesses and others for consistent donations for something that is not going to pay them back. I’m just hoping that market settles down a bit, it seems crazy right now 

I hope so too (my fervent hope is that the market as is doesn't exist down the road). But I'm sure being in SEC country you understand how this is gonna go. The secondary & tertiary sources in Baton Rouge & New Orleans may want to take a break, but the ones in Bama, Georgia, Texas--wherever-- will step right up. And there's no reason to wait until someone enters the portal, either. Just contact whoever you want & make your pitch. It just takes one.

Appreciate the insight. That's one helluva nice source.

 

[wildcat83]

6 hours ago, stoutdude04 said:

Supposedly, April 15th is the last pay day for NIL deals for this season.  So expect a few other big names to hit the portal potentially.

Yep, just talked to an old college friend who’s son entered the portal yesterday.  He had to wait for his last installment of NIL money from this past year.  If they enter the portal before the 15th they don’t get their last check. 

[CheezWizHed]

8 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

They already do, but they can easily just leave after the first year. The only way it would force a player back is if you backloaded it and also massively outbid other teams. But good luck...too much competition for these players. It just doesn't make a ton of sense for the player. 

 

 

I'm speaking more of 2 year contract.  Just like the pros sign.  It might be an offer, but a one-sided one that isn't binding for the player. 

Yes, it still would be a challenge because players wouldn't want them. But somehow just to slow down the change. 

[BrewerFan]

11 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Yeah, Not that it would stop Chucky, but they really need to limit it to 2 years or something like that.  The every-year churn is very tiring already.  I wonder when schools will start offering 2-year NIL deals instead of what they have now?

I know they do this in some sports...maybe they don't believe they can do this with higher profile CBB/CFB players.

The NCAA also allowed just one transfer as an undergrad, then you could transfer as a graduate student.

But now with AJ Storr looking at 3 schools in 3 years, a step up each time, I'd hope the NCAA would fight it a bit harder. Not sure what the update on that was, but it's awful for the game.

[Jim French Stepstool]

33 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

I know they do this in some sports...maybe they don't believe they can do this with higher profile CBB/CFB players.

The NCAA also allowed just one transfer as an undergrad, then you could transfer as a graduate student.

But now with AJ Storr looking at 3 schools in 3 years, a step up each time, I'd hope the NCAA would fight it a bit harder. Not sure what the update on that was, but it's awful for the game.

The NCAA has fought a lot of this stuff, they just keep losing in court.

I wasn't aware they do 2yr-contingent NIL deals in other sports. It would certainly be a step better than what's going on now.

[BrewerFan]

26 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The NCAA has fought a lot of this stuff, they just keep losing in court.

I wasn't aware they do 2yr-contingent NIL deals in other sports. It would certainly be a step better than what's going on now.

Well...again, it's Wrestling, but what they've done is put provisions in there wherein they'll pay for tuition(as part of the deal) and then if that athlete leaves, they're responsible for repaying that money. 

It's a different sport from the RTCs where athletes train for World and Olympic-level Wrestling, but they're more like contracts. Some of them are contingent. A truck(80-100K) and they lease it with the guarantee they'll own it outright.

The difference is, you're talking about 200-400K in NIL+ the RTC money. If it were on another level like Storr, he could leave and get enough more that it likely wouldn't be prohibitive. 

It's a starting point and the only direct knowledge I have of any NIL deals, so it could be viewed as a starting point....I really don't know. It wouldn't stop an Arch Manning, but it'd likely stop a guy like Chuckie.

[BrewerFan]

32 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The NCAA has fought a lot of this stuff, they just keep losing in court.

.

Also...I thought the lawsuit was from December of this past year. There was an injunction limiting the # of transfers(unless you were a Grad student or your coach left).

Have they lost more than that with regard to transfer rules?

[MrTPlush]

AJ Storr isn’t really a great example to point and say ‘that’s wrong’. Both times he transferred he went to a school exponentially better for him. It isn’t even a NIL problem. Take that away and he still probably transfers and both places he went to would have made sense. Wisconsin to be in P5 after proving he had way more skill than one typically has at St. John’s and then Kansas to be at an elite school that has a way better play style to showcase his talents for the NBA. It isn’t like he is flailing around jumping from school to school

If you want an example of a transfer issue guy it is Charlie Moore.

I kind of miss the days where they had to sit out a year, it certainly makes guys less likely to jump ship. At the same time I never liked basically forcing a guy to stay either. A whole year felt really extreme too. You could give everyone a single free transfer before say a half-year sit requirement…but it feels guys trying to transfer for their second (or more) time is honestly a big minority. Though we shall see how that shakes out as NIL is around longer.

[stoutdude04]

19 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

One thing I find amusing is the people who were calling for the players to get paid are the ones complaining the most about players transferring.

I'm not sure anyone anticipated it being the wild west.  However, I think its be exasperated(that the right word?) by the fact that these students are being given unlimited transfers.

[stoutdude04]

14 hours ago, wildcat83 said:

Yep, just talked to an old college friend who’s son entered the portal yesterday.  He had to wait for his last installment of NIL money from this past year.  If they enter the portal before the 15th they don’t get their last check. 

Maybe that is a way to change the transfer portal - change the date you have to be in by to like, April 1st.

[Samurai Bucky]

1 hour ago, stoutdude04 said:

I'm not sure anyone anticipated it being the wild west.  However, I think its be exasperated(that the right word?) by the fact that these students are being given unlimited transfers.

Who would be the ones to implement and monitor the rules?  I am constantly hearing about how the NCAA is terrible.  First, they didn't let the players get paid.  Then, they step out of the way and let the free market decide and you get the wild west.  I wonder if we could look at a list of the highest paid public employees and start seeing college players listed in the top 10 after college coaches?

Perhaps the thing that bothers me most is that the value of an education as these institutions has been diminished to an afterthought.  Maybe it is because my kids were not skilled enough, or didn't have the opportunity to play anything higher than DIII.  Wouldn't it have been nice if they could get some pocket money so they wouldn't have to work so much or take out a loan.  Oh wait -- they got good grades in high school and were able to get academic scholarships, so that helped.

[stoutdude04]

30 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Who would be the ones to implement and monitor the rules?  I am constantly hearing about how the NCAA is terrible.  First, they didn't let the players get paid.  Then, they step out of the way and let the free market decide and you get the wild west.  I wonder if we could look at a list of the highest paid public employees and start seeing college players listed in the top 10 after college coaches?

Perhaps the thing that bothers me most is that the value of an education as these institutions has been diminished to an afterthought.  Maybe it is because my kids were not skilled enough, or didn't have the opportunity to play anything higher than DIII.  Wouldn't it have been nice if they could get some pocket money so they wouldn't have to work so much or take out a loan.  Oh wait -- they got good grades in high school and were able to get academic scholarships, so that helped.

Great point on monitoring the rules.  One of the coaches...I cant remember who, basically said they have no idea who is making money or how much money.  I think that is part of the problem as well, but again, where is the line drawn and who keeps track?

I was and still am all for players being paid, but I did not realize it was going to turn into mercenaries hawking the biggest deals.  I also don't think players should have people reaching out to them before they actually hit the portal, but obviously that's happening and probably no way to control that either.

To me, players should get 1 free transfer(not including grad students).  I could also see giving another transfer if the head coach leaves.  But again, courts and stuff has said no to that.  I guess this is just the new reality, unless it does settle down, but I don't see that happening, as I just saw today that FedEx was giving Louisville 25 million dollars towards NIL deals.  Maybe that's how they were able to lure Chucky?

Edit: Just kidding, it was Memphis, not Louisville.

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Also...I thought the lawsuit was from December of this past year. There was an injunction limiting the # of transfers(unless you were a Grad student or your coach left).

Have they lost more than that with regard to transfer rules?

The ability to transfer w/o having to sit a year applied to grads, that started about...........6, 7 years ago? Now it's immediate eligibility for everyone. I don't think there was ever a separate stipulation for a coach leaving, although it makes no difference now. 

Since the lawsuit you referenced there hasn't been anything else I'm aware of. Not really much left for the NCAA to lose. I suppose soon someone at Ball State will go through an 8-23 season averaging 19 PPG, want to transfer to a team that made the tourney & play immediately, and be allowed to do so, I'm being sarcastic, but seriously, is that next?

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

but it feels guys trying to transfer for their second (or more) time is honestly a big minority. Though we shall see how that shakes out as NIL is around longer.

I suppose 'big minority' can be defined in different ways. But there are quite a few D-1 players on at least their 3rd school.

It would be interesting to quantify the % of influence in quitting a school----NIL vs immediate eligibility at your new destination. Yeah, cash is the big persuader. But not having to sit greases that chute immensely.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

 

Perhaps the thing that bothers me most is that the value of an education as these institutions has been diminished to an afterthought.  Maybe it is because my kids were not skilled enough, or didn't have the opportunity to play anything higher than DIII.  Wouldn't it have been nice if they could get some pocket money so they wouldn't have to work so much or take out a loan.  Oh wait -- they got good grades in high school and were able to get academic scholarships, so that helped.

That's what happens when college sports provides a free minor league for the NBA & NFL. It would be wonderful if there was somewhere to go, if you were a talented 17-yr-old but not college material. But there was never any reason for the pros to establish anything like that (No, I don't think the G League qualifies; that seems to be mostly for more experienced hangers-on that might fill a 10 day contract if needed). Bob Knight, who was an ass but at the same time usually the smartest guy in the room, suggested that very thing. Instead, like you said, the education becomes an afterthought. Getting a free four year education, no student loans hanging over your head for 20+ years---big deal.

I'm all for some sort of stipend, like was suggested many years ago. But the advantages that were there all along are mostly appreciated only by some of the non-revenue jocks. That's why a Guy like Rashard Griffith, who went back & earned his degree, should be held as an example. 

You'd be amazed at the number of FB & BB scholarship athletes who are absolutely certain they're going to enjoy a long pro  career.

 

[Samurai Bucky]

44 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'm all for some sort of stipend, like was suggested many years ago. But the advantages that were there all along are mostly appreciated only by some of the non-revenue jocks. That's why a Guy like Rashard Griffith, who went back & earned his degree, should be held as an example. 

You'd be amazed at the number of FB & BB scholarship athletes who are absolutely certain they're going to enjoy a long pro  career.

Here are a few ideas:

If a player leaves early and goes to another school, why can't there be some type of transfer fee paid to the original school?  This is what happens in soccer.  Yes, the player doesn't have ultimate control, but at least the host institution isn't left scrambling.

If a player leaves early, either for the pros or for another school, they are responsible to pay back a certain percentage of what they were paid already above and beyond the standard college fees (tuition, room, board) the would have gotten.  This would be similar to vesting.  Perhaps they don't get the money all at once.  So, if they get $1MM and they leave after two years, they only get $500K?

None of these will probably work, but it is a thought, I guess.

[LouisEly]

Duke just had their 7th player enter the portal.  Down to two scholarship players apparently.

Employers can put non-compete clauses in their employee's contracts if it can legitimately harm their business and give away trade secrets.  I think transferring to another school can harm a team's "business" and give away "trade secrets" (i.e. the playbook), so the NCAA needs to convince a federal judge and Congress of that and put non-compete clauses into scholarships and NIL deals.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Here are a few ideas:

If a player leaves early and goes to another school, why can't there be some type of transfer fee paid to the original school?  This is what happens in soccer.  Yes, the player doesn't have ultimate control, but at least the host institution isn't left scrambling.

If a player leaves early, either for the pros or for another school, they are responsible to pay back a certain percentage of what they were paid already above and beyond the standard college fees (tuition, room, board) the would have gotten.  This would be similar to vesting.  Perhaps they don't get the money all at once.  So, if they get $1MM and they leave after two years, they only get $500K?

None of these will probably work, but it is a thought, I guess.

That's the type of stuff that, if this ever becomes a collective-bargaining type relationship, would get kicked around in negotiation. On the surface, both sound harsh for student-athletes. But since they want to be paid & treated like professionals, I got no problem.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Duke just had their 7th player enter the portal.  Down to two scholarship players apparently.

Employers can put non-compete clauses in their employee's contracts if it can legitimately harm their business and give away trade secrets.  I think transferring to another school can harm a team's "business" and give away "trade secrets" (i.e. the playbook), so the NCAA needs to convince a federal judge and Congress of that and put non-compete clauses into scholarships and NIL deals.

That's very intriguing.

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 hours ago, stoutdude04 said:

 

I was and still am all for players being paid, but I did not realize it was going to turn into mercenaries hawking the biggest deals.  

Check out the original idea behind name, image, and likeness when it was first being kicked around, and what we have now. It's like comparing a wiggling, slippery baby alligator just out of the egg to something that empties out your henhouse & has three toddlers for dessert.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Now for something a little different: Actual news involving players in the portal. It's rumored that Mason Gillis (Purdue) going to Duke is a strong possibility. He pretty much plays the same position as Brandon Angel, who Duke was also considering. Angel is one of Gards' main portal targets, so this may clear a path for Angel to UW (he was recruited by Gard out of HS). I think he'd be a great fit.

UW is also looking at guards, probably a little harder now that Hepburn quit. The 3 most mentioned are Tyrese Hunter (played with Kamari McGee in HS), Jaden Schutt, and Seth Trimble. And I wouldn't be surprised if they're scouring film, checking mid-major rosters & bench guys on P-5 schools for people that may be a good fit, portal or not. Because no rules.