2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Will this end up being the best shooting Badger team of our lives? It is the best eFG% team in the T-Rank era, including the F4 teams. Although the landscape of college basketball has changed, so every team is shooting better than they used to.

Makes me feel like I haven't been appreciating them enough.

In the early days of the season, I was pretty concerned about the lack of beef in the middle. But those concerns have been buried under this shooting barrage. I'm a little surprised that they're only 29th in the country in eFG% (although 8th vs. quad 2 or better teams).

In terms of shooting alone, they're on the short list for sure. If what Crowl did from long range last night is a sign of things to come, look out........I mean, they turned it over ten times, had some other sloppy possessions in the 1st half, and STILL put up 95 points.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Oxy said:

They definitely don't walk it up the court anymore.  We used to play so hard and so intense on defense that we almost HAD to slow it down and walk it up because we had to catch our breath and rest a little bit. This team is deeper so we can afford to push the ball and rest guys on the bench instead of the first 10-15 seconds of our offensive possession.

I think it was Al McGuire who once said something like "You work hard on the defensive end, and you rest on offense". In the pre-shot clock era that worked really well. To increase the # of possessions & still convert to defense effectively is hard, but they're doing it & seem to be getting better at it. It helps toward that end when your bench guys can guard people. Gilmore, McGee & Janicki can all do it, and Amos has gotten much better.

[RedStickBrew]

2 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I think I have been so programmed by Bennett-ball and Ryan-ball that I get uneasy when they don't take care of the ball.  Time to get with the times, Samurai.

I had to look it up but this team averages just under 10 TO/Game which isn’t all that bad. I thought it was higher because they have had a couple really bad TO games earlier this year

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I totally agree with you all on Bennett-ball. There was a completely ruthless beauty to that system. Watching Mike Kelley just completely shut down opposing guards was incredible. And that system was perfectly designed for where the sport was in that era--Wisconsin was never going to get the top athletes or the most big-time recruits, so you won on toughness and improvement. Gard took some lumps transitioning out of that, but still managed to make the tournament in four of the six years post-Bo players (counting from after Koenig's departure, and it would have been 5 tourneys in 7 years had they held one in 2020).

One thing I think gets overlooked is that, yeah, the Badgers play faster, but they're still only 187 in KenPom tempo. That's closer to the bottom of the country than the top. It does FEEL like that's changed some in more recent games, but I love that they can slow it down a bit if they need to. Tonje in particular has gotten so so good and not forcing things that aren't there. Sure, he'll put up a less-than-ideal contested step-back when he's on a heater (which is a bad shot for a lot of guys, but not nearly as much for him), but the vast majority of the time he's completely in control. He is not a volume scorer at all and seems locked in and bought in.

I don't know if they'll be able to hang any banners, and the tournament can be terrifyingly random, but the program has largely managed to stay relevant during a time of massive change in the sport. More than can be said for many others.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Watching Mike Kelley just completely shut down opposing guards was incredible.

On Bennetts' Final Four team, Watching the work turned in by Kelley vs Jaraan Cornell of Purdue was unforgettable. Give me a fantasy guard combo of Kelley & Mike Flowers, and you may not score much from the perimeter but you'd have opposing backcourts going into the locker room at halftime & not wanting to come back out.

[Underachiever]

I’m getting so tired of the turnover talk. They are turning it over at a similar, almost identical, pace to other years. Given that they are averaging more points and more possessions per game, I think it’s worth it. Faster pace brings with it the risk of more turnovers. They have averaged between 8.7 and 10.1 turnovers every year for the past 5. Might as well complain about missing free throws.

[Oxy]

52 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

I’m getting so tired of the turnover talk. They are turning it over at a similar, almost identical, pace to other years. Given that they are averaging more points and more possessions per game, I think it’s worth it. Faster pace brings with it the risk of more turnovers. They have averaged between 8.7 and 10.1 turnovers every year for the past 5. Might as well complain about missing free throws.

Agreed, but there's been some bad streaks early in the game/the first half more than a couple times and then completely cleaned it up in the 2nd half.  Recently it's been less of an issue.  Not all turnovers are the same, either.  Silly travelling calls when receiving the ball going away from the basket are just dumb (Amos and Blackwell yesterday), and then live ball turnovers leading to transition opportunities--usually from lazy passes around the perimeter--are doubly bad.

Overall it's not an issue.

[LouisEly]

6 hours ago, Samurai Bucky said:

My daughter asked me last night where Tonje came from.  I mentioned that he came from Omaha (and Colorado State and Missouri) which reminded me of Chucky Hepburn.  There was some rumblings that Tonje was coming to Wisconsin to play with Hepburn before Chucky left.

It was actually to play with Klesmit.  A few years ago Tonje hosted Klesmit at Colorado State when Klesmit was considering playing there.  They stayed in touch and Klesmit reached out to him and said, "Bro, you gotta come play here."

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 hours ago, Underachiever said:

I’m getting so tired of the turnover talk. They are turning it over at a similar, almost identical, pace to other years. Given that they are averaging more points and more possessions per game, I think it’s worth it. Faster pace brings with it the risk of more turnovers. They have averaged between 8.7 and 10.1 turnovers every year for the past 5. Might as well complain about missing free throws.

When they come, they seem to be in bunches & are often unforced, or as a result of over-aggressiveness early in the game. That's correctable stuff. But you're right; the number isn't large & is tempered by the fact it almost always gets better after halftime.

[GreatNWwi]

The one thing among all the changes that we are seeing with this team that I love is the end of half/game possessions.  In the past, starting with the Bo teams, it was always that one guy (such as Chucky last year) that held the ball at the top until it was go time late in the clock.  Seemingly 90% (not a real statistic) of the time that one guy dribbled around and took the last shot rarely passing.  Good opposing coaches would prepare for this and defend it.  The predictability was annoying.

I have not seen much of this the entire year.  The last couple of games it has been Blackwell in these situations but his willingness to pass out off the dribble late has been refreshing.  

[Playing Catch]

19 hours ago, Underachiever said:

Might as well complain about missing free throws.

If they keep shooting free throws at 75% like in recent games, they won't break the all-time record!

12 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

almost always gets better after halftime

They've been cleaning up a lot of stuff as games go on, which is great to see. They are not only growing into games, but you can sense they are starting to grow into having a cockiness about themselves as individuals, and as a collective. They are building and growing toward March. Guys are getting better. Winter, in particular, is reminding me of sophomore season Kaminsky. 

What's also true is that what Tonje has been doing the last four or five games is unsustainable. He's been spectacular of late. As much as I'm quite happy he's hitting every shot, part of me wants to see them continue to find the open man, because all of the guys can hit shots.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

21 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

On Bennetts' Final Four team, Watching the work turned in by Kelley vs Jaraan Cornell of Purdue was unforgettable. Give me a fantasy guard combo of Kelley & Mike Flowers, and you may not score much from the perimeter but you'd have opposing backcourts going into the locker room at halftime & not wanting to come back out.

Yes! Flowers is another underrated guy. Great hands. Incredible defender. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

 

What's also true is that what Tonje has been doing the last four or five games is unsustainable. He's been spectacular of late. As much as I'm quite happy he's hitting every shot, part of me wants to see them continue to find the open man, because all of the guys can hit shots.

It's great to have someone willing to take shots when needed & make them. But yeah, he won't keep dropping 30 a game & fortunately this is an unselfish group as well as a talented one so theoretically that won't be needed. It was nice to see the game (USC?) where he was held scoreless & they absorbed it well.

The nice thing is he's putting up big scoring games w/o having to unload a ton of shots from the floor. Very efficient. I shudder to think how many hoists at the rim it would take AJ Storr to score 30-35.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Oregon has been real hit-or-miss since the conference season started. What concerns me is they have more than enough athleticism, decent depth & like UW they have five guys that can give you 16-17 points on a given day. No big scorer a la Tonje but Bittle is a pivot that can be trouble on both ends of the floor. Big challenge for Crowl & Winter. If they keep the floor spread it'll be risky to double the post or even hedge as both guards can make threes.

Other than Bittle, I don't think they give us consistent problems w/their defense as long as we're as sharp as we've been in recent games. Crowl & Winter forcing Bittle out to defend the 3pt line would be huge. Things get interestingly tight at the top of the league w/a win.

[Samurai Bucky]

What were we saying about turnovers?

[adambr2]

Sloppiest 6 minutes of Badger basketball that I’ve seen all year. Crowl and Blackwell in particular. Horrific. Let’s see if they can get it together in OT.

[yourout]

Bad bad bad bad loss.

[adambr2]

What are these possessions? What have we been doing the last 10 minutes of the game?

Earned every bit of this L. Got complacent and let a 16 point late lead slip away at home.

[yourout]

Instructional video on how to flush your chances for conference championship down the toilet in 5 minutes or less. 

Woof

[Samurai Bucky]

This may sound silly, but this might be the best thing that could have happened to them in the long run.

Full disclosure -- I only saw the last 2 minutes of regulation, but was following on the Yahoo Sports app.

I think they let the hype get to them.  Up around 20 late in the game?  I am guessing they coasted... and got burnt.  I took notice that Oregon had only 4 fouls late in the second half.  Either the Badgers were not getting the calls, or the refs were letting them play.  Guess what?  The latter is what the NCAA tournament will be like.

Crowl?  That turnover late in the game happens at least once a game.  His sloppy passing has been an issue all year.

Film room will have something like this:  "Do not throw 100MPH fastballs when you are inbounding the ball."  Geesch.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

This may sound silly, but this might be the best thing that could have happened to them in the long run.

Full disclosure -- I only saw the last 2 minutes of regulation, but was following on the Yahoo Sports app.

I think they let the hype get to them.  Up around 20 late in the game?  I am guessing they coasted... and got burnt.  I took notice that Oregon had only 4 fouls late in the second half.  Either the Badgers were not getting the calls, or the refs were letting them play.  Guess what?  The latter is what the NCAA tournament will be like.

Crowl?  That turnover late in the game happens at least once a game.  His sloppy passing has been an issue all year.

Film room will have something like this:  "Do not throw 100MPH fastballs when you are inbounding the ball."  Geesch.

Yeah, they definitely looked cruise control during that stretch. Went up 66-57 and did not score the rest of regulation. Stopped being assertive offensively. Drained clock. Were very, very sloppy with the basketball late, and then proceeded to do the same in OT.

Wake-up call kind of game, you hope. I never really thought this team was going to win the conference title (figuring on a loss in East Lansing, and that puts them too far back, realistically). Today really stings, but big picture, it's going to end up being a Q1 loss in all likelihood. Learn from it and move on, because your main goals are still all in front of you.

Hopefully a get-right home game against Washington before the big test next Sunday @MSU. They'll bounce back.

[Jim French Stepstool]

Just returned from Madison. A few thoughts........

I'm sure there will be a lot of wailing about a lack of aggressiveness in the 2nd half. Gard said as much. But along with that, I thought there were a lot of possessions in that half where we settled. You don't want to take the air out of the ball w/nine minutes left, but if you have a mediocre look 11 secs into the shot clock, take another ten, or twelve, or fifteen to probe for something better. IMO a lot of "What the hell, we're up 14" possessions. Evidence of that----We were well into OT & Oregon STILL had fouls to give. They worked hard defensively. We needed them to work harder. Bittle had three fouls at the half. He finished with three. Even with them doing some zone & at other times doubling Crowl, that can't happen.

I credit Altman with pressing & staying with it. Even when it didn't result directly in a TO it really affected the halfcourt flow of the UW offense. And Bomba did a marvelous job on Tonje. He can make tough shots as we've all seen, but the difference was that's ALL he was getting after halftime. An OK 3pt look or two, but by that time he wasn't in any kind of rhythm.

Once we got into the final few minutes we really tried to limit possessions & shrink the clock. At that time, I had zero problem with doing that. I look at it this way--we had four or five really bad TOs late. Eliminate one of them, then it's three or four which is still way too many, but we probably win the game in regulation.

Klesmit with the ball late w/the game tied was........interesting. Like many I expected Blackwell or Tonje. Klesmit has actually made some humongous shots for them in that very situation, but I'll be interested in hearing something about that in the days to come. If it's one of the other two, they DID have fouls to give, so who knows? Just dicey when you aren't in the bonus. But yes, I didn't expect it to be Klesmit w/the ball.

[Jim French Stepstool]

5 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

 I never really thought this team was going to win the conference title (figuring on a loss in East Lansing, and that puts them too far back, realistically). Today really stings, but big picture, it's going to end up being a Q1 loss in all likelihood. Learn from it and move on, because your main goals are still all in front of you.

 

AFA the conference title is concerned, the loss waaaay back when to Michigan hurt more than this one. It's now all about correcting mistakes, bouncing back & trying to stay in the top four.

Sucks that Oregon hit on a nice strategy in the 2nd half. That press just threw everything off kilter. It was a good press, and we reacted to it poorly.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

  I took notice that Oregon had only 4 fouls late in the second half.  Either the Badgers were not getting the calls, or the refs were letting them play.  

 

Actually, I'd say neither for the most part. Too often we didn't attack, other times we settled instead of making an extra pass or two & making them guard longer.. I remember one shot near the rim where I thought Amos was mugged w/o a whistle, but other than that I don't think it was reffed abnormally.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

35 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Klesmit with the ball late w/the game tied was........interesting. Like many I expected Blackwell or Tonje. Klesmit has actually made some humongous shots for them in that very situation, but I'll be interested in hearing something about that in the days to come. If it's one of the other two, they DID have fouls to give, so who knows? Just dicey when you aren't in the bonus. But yes, I didn't expect it to be Klesmit w/the ball.

I had the same thoughts at first re: Klesmit. I think you want Tonje there for sure. On the other hand, you know max is going to get a true one-on-one opportunity in that spot. No one's helping off Tonje or Blackwell. Maybe too cute to plan for that kind of shot, but Max did get a pretty decent look. Just left it short.

It's just not fun to lose home games. And we lost this one ourselves. As you said, big credit to Oregon for their defensive plan in the second half, but way too many errors by the Badgers late.