Trevor Megill to 15 Day IL with Lower Back Issue

[wiguy94]

 

[duewizard]

The bullpen is collapsing. That early usage was always going to come back to bite us.

Jay back up?

[Oxy]

There is no way all these guys are truly "injured," but whatever.  I guess I prefer this to a "Load management" IL stint.

[willie key]

The modern day professional athlete are made of glass.   It really isn’t fair to teams anymore.     They should just get paid 60-80% of their salary because you have to pay a bunch of other guys to play for them.    I don’t even know how you budget anymore in pro sports

 

it just sucks for fans.  I don’t even want teams to play games anymore because somebody gets hurt for three weeks.   College sucks even worse because you can’t replace them at all.    Everyone is always hurt

[markedman5]

5 minutes ago, Oxy said:

There is no way all these guys are truly "injured," but whatever.  I guess I prefer this to a "Load management" IL stint.

Or they are injured……..I doubt seriously that the Brewers just decided to rest Megill or Hudson in the middle of a pennant race…….and Hudson had an MRI for Pete sake.

 

Not everything is a conspiracy…….

[markedman5]

9 minutes ago, duewizard said:

The bullpen is collapsing. That early usage was always going to come back to bite us.

Jay back up?

Probably use it for Ross’s spot

[igor67]

I think there is a gray zone where perhaps both teams and athletes are more willing to take a short IL trip rather then fighting through in the same way the would when they were handing out salt pills.

[adambr2]

The following sequence of events is a perfect summation of exactly what it is like to be a Brewer fan on the eve of the MLB trade deadline:

- "Cardinals acquire Fedde"

- "Yankees discussing Jack Flaherty"

- "Brewers place their closer on the injured list"

[duewizard]

7 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

Probably use it for Ross’s spot

I was thinking Jay (or Herget) just for today to have an available arm. Back down tomorrow for Ross

[Oxy]

20 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

Or they are injured……..I doubt seriously that the Brewers just decided to rest Megill or Hudson in the middle of a pennant race…….and Hudson had an MRI for Pete sake.

 

Not everything is a conspiracy…….

I'm just saying that if the playoffs started tonight, I doubt all of these guys would be on the IL.  It's not a conspiracy--I'm sure they are banged up, and I'm sure the Brewers have told them all NOT to try to pitch thru anything so that they can be healthy for September and later.  Now is a GOOD time to go on the IL.

[LouisEly]

33 minutes ago, duewizard said:

The bullpen is collapsing. That early usage was always going to come back to bite us.

Among pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP per appearance, the highest that any Brewer ranks in terms of appearances is Hoby Milner at 29th.  Payamps is 60th, Peguero is 83rd, Hudson is 138th, Megill is 142nd, and Koenig is 162nd.

Among pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP per appearance, the highest that any Brewer ranks in terms of innings pitched is Hudson at 18th, Milner is 29th, Peguero is 94th, Koenig is 102nd, Payamps is 133rd, and Megill is 171st. 

The Brewers haven't been using their core relievers more than anybody else has.

[markedman5]

 

[duewizard]

40 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Among pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP per appearance, the highest that any Brewer ranks in terms of appearances is Hoby Milner at 29th.  Payamps is 60th, Peguero is 83rd, Hudson is 138th, Megill is 142nd, and Koenig is 162nd.

Among pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP per appearance, the highest that any Brewer ranks in terms of innings pitched is Hudson at 18th, Milner is 29th, Peguero is 94th, Koenig is 102nd, Payamps is 133rd, and Megill is 171st. 

The Brewers haven't been using their core relievers more than anybody else has.

Brewers have 2nd most innings by relievers and the least innings by starters. As a group, they are overused because the starters are not getting deep in games.

Where did you get your stats by the way? I want to look at those splits for pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP. Genuinely asking

[Fear The Chorizo]

Max effort leads to bodies breaking...the reason guys didn't throw max effort decades ago was they knew if they got injured they would lose their job and potentially their career.

No surprise that guys throwing triple digits can't do it forever before they can't pitch.

[igor67]

Unless your name is Nolan Ryan, he gets even more impressive as time goes on. We should probably build space shuttles out of his tendons..

[Jim French Stepstool]

My theory is that we just put these guys on the IL to satisfy our front office fetish to pick up bullpen arms every deadline.

Seriously, with Megill out my immediate concern right now is Williams. He seemed to have little idea where the changeup was going yesterday, and was visibly upset by it walking off the field. The last thing we need is a rough outing or two, followed by a "It's still spring training for Devin" refrain.

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

Among pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP per appearance, the highest that any Brewer ranks in terms of appearances is Hoby Milner at 29th.  Payamps is 60th, Peguero is 83rd, Hudson is 138th, Megill is 142nd, and Koenig is 162nd.

Among pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP per appearance, the highest that any Brewer ranks in terms of innings pitched is Hudson at 18th, Milner is 29th, Peguero is 94th, Koenig is 102nd, Payamps is 133rd, and Megill is 171st. 

The Brewers haven't been using their core relievers more than anybody else has.

The over use of the bullpen isn't about individual players use, it's about the whole group as a unit.

If what another poster said above is true, that the Brewers have the 2nd most relief innings and THE least innings pitched by starters in MLB, then yes, the bullpen has been over used to the detriment of the team.

Another example of people cherry picking stats to benefit their point.  No offense LouisEly, that isn't why I made this post.

[wiguy94]

35 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Max effort leads to bodies breaking...the reason guys didn't throw max effort decades ago was they knew if they got injured they would lose their job and potentially their career.

No surprise that guys throwing triple digits can't do it forever before they can't pitch.

Also umps had bigger strike zones and hitters were worse.

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, TURBO said:

The over use of the bullpen isn't about individual players use, it's about the whole group as a unit.

If what another poster said above is true, that the Brewers have the 2nd most relief innings and THE least innings pitched by starters in MLB, then yes, the bullpen has been over used to the detriment of the team.

Another example of people cherry picking stats to benefit their point.  No offense LouisEly, that isn't why I made this post.

Brewers have used an opener about a dozen times at this point. Have other teams done that? If not that's definitely going to skew our SP/RP numbers.

[igor67]

Turbo I don't often disagree with you, but if none of the individuals are getting over used and most of them have been effective (not lock down perfect) how what is the issue? Given the ability to find useful bullpen arms what we are seeing is just a different way of getting those innings in, and given the relative mediocrity of our starters getting more pen innings is probably better. If we had a garbage pen or only a few relievers getting over worked it would be different, but what is the mechanism for team harm of general bullpen overuse?

[TURBO]

2 minutes ago, igor67 said:

Turbo I don't often disagree with you, but if none of the individuals are getting over used and most of them have been effective (not lock down perfect) how what is the issue? Given the ability to find useful bullpen arms what we are seeing is just a different way of getting those innings in, and given the relative mediocrity of our starters getting more pen innings is probably better. If we had a garbage pen or only a few relievers getting over worked it would be different, but what is the mechanism for team harm of general bullpen overuse?

Good points, and I have no answer.

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, duewizard said:

Brewers have 2nd most innings by relievers and the least innings by starters. As a group, they are overused because the starters are not getting deep in games.

The first sentence is true.  However, they've spread those bullpen innings out among 22 different relief pitchers (not including position players).  That's why the stats that I posted are more relevant.  It's not the same eight relievers getting all of those innings. I count about 78 innings by relievers who are not on the 26-man roster or 15-day IL (including Vieira, Uribe, Herget, White, Junk, Hernandez, Bukaskas, etc.).

@TURBO - not cherry-picking, this is why it's not an issue.  You have to factor the number of pitchers that it's spread across.

 

1 hour ago, duewizard said:

Where did you get your stats by the way? I want to look at those splits for pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP. Genuinely asking

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2024-standard-pitching.shtml

Convert to .CSV, export to Excel/Google Sheets/etc., add a column and do a simple calculation, delete anyone averaging >2.5IP/appearance.

[brewfanmn]

1 hour ago, duewizard said:

Brewers have 2nd most innings by relievers and the least innings by starters. As a group, they are overused because the starters are not getting deep in games.

Where did you get your stats by the way? I want to look at those splits for pitchers averaging less than 2.5 IP. Genuinely asking

The Brewers have relied heavily on the opener -- Bryse Wilson and Colin Rea have combined for 41.6 "relief" innings following an opener. If you count those "opener" innings as the relief innings, and they drop down to 9th. I'm not sure how frequently other teams have used the opener, but it feels like the Brewers have been one of the more aggressive opener teams in the league this year which is going to significantly skew these numbers. As others have said, the main leverage relief guys don't appear to actually be overworked in general. 

[BruisedCrew]

Still another example of why I didn’t waste much time pondering what the Brewers would do with Williams and Megill when Williams was available. 

[duewizard]

2 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Brewers have used an opener about a dozen times at this point. Have other teams done that? If not that's definitely going to skew our SP/RP numbers.

That is quite true I forgot about that. That probably changes the numbers a bit