2024-25 Milwaukee Bucks thread

[nate82]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

Lopez is a UFA after the season.   Spotrac has the Bucks at $25M under the 2nd apron and $14M under the 1st apron next season.

That pick is frozen unless they are able to get below the second apron before the end of this season.  So being under the 1st and 2nd apron next season is great but the pick will still be frozen.  They will have to stay under the 2nd apron for the next 3 seasons otherwise it will be permanently frozen at 30.

From the Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6092589/2025/02/04/bucks-trade-deadline-primer/

Quote

If the Bucks fail to chop that $6.5-ish million from their salary-cap table by the end of the season, their 2032 first-round pick would be frozen until at least the end of the 2027-28 season. And it would only become unfrozen at that point if the Bucks manage to stay below the second apron in the next three seasons.

 

[patrickgpe]

Bucks are working on a trade centered around Baldwin Jr / Kuzma coming here, Middleton / Johnson going to the wizards. This is an awful trade. Baldwin is a flop of a pick and Johnson never got a chance. Kuzma is slightly better than middleton at this point, but I think the season will be lost if they do that. 

https://x.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/1887153457779429404

[patrickgpe]

deal is done, includes a pick swap and bucks getting a 2nd. Awful move

[SeaBass]

Player wise it's not a great trade but I assume it brings some salary cap relief. That's really the only reason they do this trade.

[Joseph Zarr]

This trade is an abomination. That's all that needs to be said. 

[Joseph Zarr]

I am literally in a state of disbelief at the incompetence on display here. Walking around like a drunken amnesiac as I sip my coffee. How we got to this point is beyond my comprehension.

[SeaBass]

It's such a Milwaukee thing (bad luck) that teams had been getting away with swapping superstars for years but when the Bucks finally get a team together the league changes the cap rules right in the middle of their championship window. Right up there with the MLB all star game finally being held in Miller Park but then the game ends in a tie due to roster limits.

[patrickgpe]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I am literally in a state of disbelief at the incompetence on display here. Walking around like a drunken amnesiac as I sip my coffee. How we got to this point is beyond my comprehension.

its been all down hill since Haslem came here. 

[patrickgpe]

10 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Player wise it's not a great trade but I assume it brings some salary cap relief. That's really the only reason they do this trade.

I don't care about the middleton - kuzma part. Bucks passed on rookies that could help this year to get projects and then traded him for cap relief is what is frustrating. Dunn or Kolek among others would have helped day 1. Now we got another draft flop before anyone knows if Johnson can play or not. 

[SeaBass]

1 minute ago, patrickgpe said:

I don't care about the middleton - kuzma part. Bucks passed on rookies that could help this year to get projects and then traded him for cap relief is what is frustrating. Dunn or Kolek among others would have helped day 1. Now we got another draft flop before anyone knows if Johnson can play or not. 

I agree but also if the Bucks could trade every one of their 1st round picks they would, so they essentially did that here. But yes, it's a cluster. This team is going to go down eventually and it's going to be apocalyptic for years before they return to the light.

[sveumrules]

17 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I am literally in a state of disbelief at the incompetence on display here. Walking around like a drunken amnesiac as I sip my coffee. How we got to this point is beyond my comprehension.

How we got to this point is the 2nd apron restrictions introduced in the new CBA. Getting under now frees them up to aggregate salaries to make another move if so inclined.

As much as I love Midds and the offensive game is still there, this last ankle(s) procedure(s) seem to have really sapped his lateral movement on defense and has further limited his already tenuous minutes / availability situation. Thanks for everything Khris, and sorry it had to be Washington in the end. Hopefully they can reroute him somewhere relevant like POR did with Jrue.

Never been a big Kuzma fan, but with a hopeful motivation / performance boost from getting out of DC and next to Giannis, 2025 Kyle should be better than 2025 Khris.

[Joseph Zarr]

11 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

How we got to this point is the 2nd apron restrictions introduced in the new CBA. Getting under now frees them up to aggregate salaries (plus the 2031 1st if they're feeling saucy) to make another move if so inclined.

As much as I love Midds and the offensive game is still there, this last ankle(s) procedure(s) seem to have really sapped his lateral movement on defense and has further limited his already tenuous minutes / availability situation. Thanks for everything Khris, and sorry it had to be Washington in the end. Hopefully they can reroute him somewhere relevant like POR did with Jrue.

Never been a big Kuzma fan, but with a hopeful motivation / performance boost from getting out of DC and next to Giannis, 2025 Kyle should be better than 2025 Khris.

Oh, I know I know. I understand the 2nd apron portion. I am mainly suffering from cloudy post-taken to the woodshed brain drain. I also understand this move may also open up avenues to execute more moves (tho, honestly, I tremble in 'fear' at what Horts may also have up his sleeves).

I understand Khris' best basketball is likely very very distant in the rearview mirror with the injury issues - the 'defense' this year has been borderline comical (and sad). I will always love Khash Money. Always. Such a likable Buck. Such a soft-spoken humble guy. The perfect underdog. A fantastic and vastly underrated basketball player throughout his career.

However, this entire ordeal simply reeks of a vintage Bucks move of old. This reeks of my never ending experience in the Kohl years. The main difference, obviously, is we have two stars we are practicing incompetence around. I do not know how we can rationalize a career inefficient player who has never played basketball in an intelligent and savvy way, who is older now in the midst of his worst season as a pro - literally a net -21 player on THE worst team in the NB of A. He is shooting woeful numbers across the board. AND, what, we're hoping he magically turns it around? I suppose that is possible. I certainly hope that happens. BUT, it feels like a giant stash of hopium. And, to avoid losing our 2031 1st rd pick outright we were forced to sweeten the deal by throwing in AJ Johnson who, quite easily, has the most upside potential in any of the young players within the org. He just started to see that light come on down with the Herd. Things really picked up the past two weeks for him - I've been tracking the Herd for the majority of their season. He is playing more controlled. The G-League game, at least, started slowing down for him. And, then he had a career game at OKC. Just felt like that ship had turned to smoother waters. Will that light ever fully come on? I do not know BUT to throw in that type of upside and unknown with his raw athleticism, handle, and ability to literally beat any defender off the dribble is an incredibly bitter pill to swallow.

Mainly, man, I'm just sad that this is where we came to. I hope there is more in the bag before this day is over. BUT, more than anything, I just see an overmatched GM trying to patch hundreds of leaky holes on a sinking ship with only his 10 fingers. The bottom seems near certain. And, well, that just makes me sad as a lifelong Bucks fan. I sincerely hope I am wrong and am over-reacting because of feeling dirty that this is how the Middleton story arc ends with the Bucks.

[Matt Breen]

I think Horst was desperate to do something - anything. Does it make us better? I don't know. 

Now that we are under the 2nd apron, I wouldn't be surprised if there's other moves coming. 

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Oh, I know I know. I understand the 2nd apron portion. I am mainly suffering from cloudy post-taken to the woodshed brain drain. I also understand this move may also open up avenues to execute more moves (tho, honestly, I tremble in 'fear' at what Horts may also have up his sleeves).

I understand Khris' best basketball is likely very very distant in the rearview mirror with the injury issues - the 'defense' this year has been borderline comical (and sad). I will always love Khash Money. Always. Such a likable Buck. Such a soft-spoken humble guy. The perfect underdog. A fantastic and vastly underrated basketball player throughout his career.

However, this entire ordeal simply reeks of a vintage Bucks move of old. This reeks of my never ending experience in the Kohl years. The main difference, obviously, is we have two stars we are practicing incompetence around. I do not know how we can rationalize a career inefficient player who has never played basketball in an intelligent and savvy way, who is older now in the midst of his worst season as a pro - literally a net -21 player on THE worst team in the NB of A. He is shooting woeful numbers across the board. AND, what, we're hoping he magically turns it around? I suppose that is possible. I certainly hope that happens. BUT, it feels like a giant stash of hopium. And, to avoid losing our 2031 1st rd pick outright we were forced to sweeten the deal by throwing in AJ Johnson who, quite easily, has the most upside potential in any of the young players within the org. He just started to see that light come on down with the Herd. Things really picked up the past two weeks for him - I've been tracking the Herd for the majority of their season. He is playing more controlled. The G-League game, at least, started slowing down for him. And, then he had a career game at OKC. Just felt like that ship had turned to smoother waters. Will that light ever fully come on? I do not know BUT to throw in that type of upside and unknown with his raw athleticism, handle, and ability to literally beat any defender off the dribble is an incredibly bitter pill to swallow.

Mainly, man, I'm just sad that this is where we came to. I hope there is more in the bag before this day is over. BUT, more than anything, I just see an overmatched GM trying to patch hundreds of leaky holes on a sinking ship with only his 10 fingers. The bottom seems near certain. And, well, that just makes me sad as a lifelong Bucks fan. I sincerely hope I am wrong and am over-reacting because of feeling dirty that this is how the Middleton story arc ends with the Bucks.

I mean, we are definitely in the tailspin and have been for some time, but that is just the reality of navigating the cap with a Superstar. You sell the future for the now until the bottom completely falls out.

Assuming this year ends with another 1st or 2nd round exit, fire Horst and fingers crossed they find some whiz kid to take over who can either rebuild it around Giannis and convince him to stay, or deal him (& Dame) for a haul of assets to kick off what will likely be a long rebuild with teams chock full of AJ Johnsons.

[Joseph Zarr]

2 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

I mean, we are definitely in the tailspin and have been for some time, but that is just the reality of navigating the cap with a Superstar. You sell the future for the now until the bottom completely falls out.

Assuming this year ends with another 1st or 2nd round exit, fire Horst and fingers crossed they find some whiz kid to take over who can either rebuild it around Giannis and convince him to stay, or deal him (& Dame) for a haul of assets to kick off what will likely be a long rebuild with teams chock full of AJ Johnsons.

I like this take. I appreciate your calm wisdom as I deal with my own ineffable, and honestly uncharacteristic, emotions post-trade. I can start to see some of why this happened - tho, man, I have a hard hard time 'looking forward' to anything Kyle Kuzma brings to the basketball court in his current form. If he can find that semblance of form (with an improbable up-tick in efficiency) as the Laker 3rd Man version? Maybe we're getting upside.

Also a team chock full of AJ Johnsons may end up with the lowest cumulative FG% by a team in NBA history. BUT, boy, would there be some amazing fast break and alley-oop dunks. 

[JosephC]

40 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

its been all down hill since Haslem came here. 

Oh come on.  He and the wife have done great things for the Browns, LOL.

[sveumrules]

44 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

its been all down hill since Haslem came here. 

its been all down hill since Giannis hired Adrian Griffin.

[SeaBass]

I think a lot of what's going on with the Bucks, a team that won a championship, helps me feel better about the Brewers situation. A lot of folks would sell everything for a Brewers WS title (and I'd be tempted too) but do we want to fall back into irrelevance for a long stretch as a price? Maybe the Brewers method is the better way. They haven't had luck in the postseason but having a good team is fun to follow. All I see in the Bucks future is darkness. And maybe that's even too negative but I sure like the Brewers situation better.

[young guns]

Don't know what to think of this, but it is sad to see Middleton go just because he's been with the team so long.

[Matt Breen]

I'm curious to see what happens if the club loses early in the playoffs again. I'm guessing Horst gets the axe. But lots can happen. Maybe Kuzma will fit in really well. Cross fingers.

[SeaBass]

I see Kuzma as more of a Bobby Portis replacement than a Middleton replacement. And maybe that will come to pass in the next 24 plus hours.

[Sugarrayray]

Middleton had become one of the least reliable players in the sport. I am his biggest fan, but he CAN’T play regular minutes. 
 

I’ve never been a Kuzma fan, but a first option on a bad team is always inefficient. How efficient would Khash or Bobby look if they were the first option on the Wizards? Kuzma waived his trade kicker to come to Milwaukee. Sounds like he wants to win. He’s not gonna come to a team full of vets with a veteran coach and chuck up terrible shots.

 

This trade makes them better this year because it gives them a 3rd option who can actually suit up and play 30 minutes who also happens to be a great transition player.

 

But more importantly, this gets them out of cap hell!!! Kuzma has one of the most team friendly contracts in the league. I think Horst did the best with this terrible CBA he was dealt. 

 

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Middleton was useless. He'll go down as a big piece of Bucks lore, but whatever. They got nothing back really, albeit a guy that should at least suit up more. I am not busted up over it. The window was closed already. I don't know what the Bucks are doing. I don't think the Bucks know what they are doing, and there is not much that they can do.

There has been a lot of talk about windows and the Bucks not getting more titles. The tricky thing is, the Bucks won their title closer to the end of their window than the beginning and that has thrown people off. Realistically the window shut the season after the championship where they lost the EC semi to Boston. That was still a quality team. Then the years before winning, the bubble and the loss to Toronto. That was the window. They've been an aging team in decline with cap hell and no picks for the last few years. That's the lifecycle in the NBA.

[nate82]

I think they are preparing to not make the playoffs and are starting the sell off early.  Probably will hear that Giannis will want out after this season.

Probably will go cheap for next year with a massive sell off of Giannis and Dame.  Though this rebuild will take a long time to fulfill.  Probably looking at a 5-10 year rebuild.

[sveumrules]

5 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I think they are preparing to not make the playoffs and are starting the sell off early.

The Bucks are 5.5 games up on the last team in the playoffs at the moment, and that is the Bulls who are selling. They are 6.5 up on the 76ers in the 11 spot.

It would pretty much take a catastrophic injury to Giannis, Dame or both for them to miss the playoffs this year.