Legislation being introduced for future funding of American Family Field: UPDATE New lease through 2050

[Brewcrew82]

 

[RobertCrawley]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:03 PM, Marc Newfield of Dreams said:

I'm almost exclusively a shuttle user now, unless I take one of my kids to a game and need that flexibility of being able to bounce early.

I'd rather spend $20 on a couple beers and an app than a place to put my car.

General parking for the playoff game we went to was $35.  If I had known, I would have parked away and walked.

[MVP2110]

Say what you want but I'm happy the Brewers will seemingly be sticking around in Wisconsin for the foreseeable future

[Brewcrew82]

7 hours ago, JosephC said:

Couldn't agree more.  This gets more and more ridiculous by the day.

It started at 290 million.  Then it became 360 million for a 13 year extension.  Now the latest I see is 411 million from the state, 67.5 million from the county, 67.5 million from the city = 546 million for a 20 year extension.  

Of course, don't forget that originally Miller Park was sold to the public as a 300 million dollar project that would be a 50/50 private/public split.  The original 150 million price-tag sold to us turned into 600+ million by the time the local sales tax ended.  Looks like that 150 million will soon turn into 1.15+ billion.

Regardless of any lease, it's a guarantee that Attanasio or whoever owns the Brewers in 2040 are going to come to us and say the stadium is now a 40 year old junk heap and it's time to forget about the last 10 years on the lease, bulldoze the stadium and build me a new one which will likely carry a 3 billion dollar price-tag by that time.

But, but, but...these projects bring in so much revenue they pay for themselves.  Anybody in this state that pays attention would have to be a complete fool to believe that.  Just look at the Bucks and their arena.  Shortly after that deal was done, MPS had their first referendum in 26 years because they needed more money.  The Bucks arena has been such a financial windfall for the area that the city and county both had to raise taxes to be able to pay for what they are terming essential services.  If the Bucks arena was such a great deal for the area, you could never tell by what has happened since then.

It is just so unnecessary for the taxpayer to be continuously soaked by these professional sports franchises.  Forbes estimates the current Brewer revenue at 294 million.  There are 27 years between now and 2050.  27 years * 294 million = just short of 8 BILLION dollars.  We really need to give this guy 546 million dollars?  I say let that guy move the team after 2030, public is much better off IMO rather than handing over 546 million now and potentially having him and politicians gouge the public for another 3+ billion dollars in 2045 when he claims he "needs" a new stadium.  This money pit is endless.  Just cut the cord now!

I don't understand how anybody could be a Brewer fan and make this post. 

[TURBO]

50 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I don't understand how anybody could be a Brewer fan and make this post. 

You simply can't dictate fandom...  

[Brewcrew82]

11 minutes ago, TURBO said:

You simply can't dictate fandom...  

Not trying to. Just saying I personally don't understand it and being fine with losing the team just to make a point that won't have an effect on anything. 

Not to mention the supporting information is erroneous. 

[homer]

13 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I don't understand how anybody could be a Brewer fan and make this post. 

This is what pro sports teams bank on to get stadium deals.

[MrTPlush]

22 hours ago, JosephC said:

Couldn't agree more.  This gets more and more ridiculous by the day.

It started at 290 million.  Then it became 360 million for a 13 year extension.  Now the latest I see is 411 million from the state, 67.5 million from the county, 67.5 million from the city = 546 million for a 20 year extension.  

Of course, don't forget that originally Miller Park was sold to the public as a 300 million dollar project that would be a 50/50 private/public split.  The original 150 million price-tag sold to us turned into 600+ million by the time the local sales tax ended.  Looks like that 150 million will soon turn into 1.15+ billion.

Regardless of any lease, it's a guarantee that Attanasio or whoever owns the Brewers in 2040 are going to come to us and say the stadium is now a 40 year old junk heap and it's time to forget about the last 10 years on the lease, bulldoze the stadium and build me a new one which will likely carry a 3 billion dollar price-tag by that time.

But, but, but...these projects bring in so much revenue they pay for themselves.  Anybody in this state that pays attention would have to be a complete fool to believe that.  Just look at the Bucks and their arena.  Shortly after that deal was done, MPS had their first referendum in 26 years because they needed more money.  The Bucks arena has been such a financial windfall for the area that the city and county both had to raise taxes to be able to pay for what they are terming essential services.  If the Bucks arena was such a great deal for the area, you could never tell by what has happened since then.

It is just so unnecessary for the taxpayer to be continuously soaked by these professional sports franchises.  Forbes estimates the current Brewer revenue at 294 million.  There are 27 years between now and 2050.  27 years * 294 million = just short of 8 BILLION dollars.  We really need to give this guy 546 million dollars?  I say let that guy move the team after 2030, public is much better off IMO rather than handing over 546 million now and potentially having him and politicians gouge the public for another 3+ billion dollars in 2045 when he claims he "needs" a new stadium.  This money pit is endless.  Just cut the cord now!

There is a lot of information on this specific deal etc....yet you decided to use past deals that are in no way shape or form similar. 

Also, yah, it would be nice if we didn't have to give taxpayer money to million+ dollar companies...but that isn't reality. We all will die with that not being reality, so vent away, but it is what it is. They provide value and they negotiate to get something for that. It is no different than you negotiating for a higher salary or threatening to leave for a different job. You would do the exact same if you owned the Brewers. 

[MVP2110]

I get the principal idea of not wanting to give money to help build a sports stadium for very wealthy owners, but the reality of the situation is that's what you do or you lose your team. Milwaukee is not a LA or NY or CHI where sports leagues are desperate to be in those markets. We could be principled and turn into a Louisville, Albuquerque, or Omaha or we can enjoy things like an NBA championship, getting to root for players like Giannis, get excited for prospects like Jackson Chourio, etc. This isn't an ideal situation but the ideal situation doesn't exist. 

[jerichoholicninja]

Somebody other than the Brewers is contractually obligated to pay for most of this right? People can complain all they want but there really isn't another way.

[homer]

The thing I find funny is how often people complain about government waste but are perfectly fine when the government hands out money to a company that doesn't need it because "that's just how it goes". At the end of the day, fans don't really care about economic impact.  They only care if the team sticks around.

I can be a fan of the Brewers and still think there are other things that need the money more than they do. Does that make me slightly less of a fan? I guess so. I'm ok with that.

[MVP2110]

1 minute ago, homer said:

The thing I find funny is how often people complain about government waste but are perfectly fine when the government hands out money to a company that doesn't need it because "that's just how it goes". At the end of the day, fans don't really care about economic impact.  They only care if the team sticks around.

I can be a fan of the Brewers and still think there are other things that need the money more than they do. Does that make me slightly less of a fan? I guess so. I'm ok with that.

I think most of us would agree the legislation itself is likely dumb and a waste, but you're right, sports bring us joy and we're willing to pay for Milwaukee to have an MLB team. I personally like having major sports in the state, I don't want to become Louisville, Albuquerque, or Omaha(cities of similar size to Milwaukee that don't have professional teams). 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It's pretty stupid. At this point in my life I could probably live with them going elsewhere tbh. I rarely make it to the stadium but yeah it would obviously be sad and I would feel bad for the diehards and the city. It won't really do anything though as plenty of places will take them in and build what they want. 

I do feel like the league structure is broken beyond repair so that's probably part of it. 

When you rarely attend games, live an hour+ away and they insist on making the games a pain to be able to watch on TV, there is a bit of disconnect that happens. I definitely don't feel as close to the team as I did in the early 2000s, some of that is age, some of that is I watched almost every night.

[patrickgpe]

Reading through these comments, it seems like the brewers / legislature /  governor has done a horrible job communicating what this bill entails. From my understanding, there will be no new tax increases to pay for these repairs. The majority of the money would be from the projected income taxes that the players pay. I'd be fine with a ticket surcharge to make up any difference, but it sounds like the repairs can be paid for with allocating the tax revenue that the brewers garnish rather than adding an additional tax. 

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, patrickgpe said:

Reading through these comments, it seems like the brewers / legislature /  governor has done a horrible job communicating what this bill entails. From my understanding, there will be no new tax increases to pay for these repairs. The majority of the money would be from the projected income taxes that the players pay. I'd be fine with a ticket surcharge to make up any difference, but it sounds like the repairs can be paid for with allocating the tax revenue that the brewers garnish rather than adding an additional tax. 

This. If the Brewers leave, there's no spending the money on something else. The money leaves with the team. 

[patrickgpe]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

This. If the Brewers leave, there's no spending the money on something else. The money leaves with the team. 

correct. I think a lot of people think its 1994 again and there will be a sales tax increase. It seems like this bill is very similar to what the helped build Fiserv Forum. I don't understand the amount of public outcry. 

[homer]

1 hour ago, patrickgpe said:

correct. I think a lot of people think its 1994 again and there will be a sales tax increase. It seems like this bill is very similar to what the helped build Fiserv Forum. I don't understand the amount of public outcry. 

The income tax certainly makes sense. Id 100% be ok with that + fees on tickets or parking. to pay for the whole thing. 

[LouisEly]

2 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

correct. I think a lot of people think its 1994 again and there will be a sales tax increase. It seems like this bill is very similar to what the helped build Fiserv Forum. I don't understand the amount of public outcry. 

Even if it did, y'all in WI have it good w/r/t sales tax.  Milwaukee sales tax is 5.5%.  Chicago is 10.25%.  Los Angeles is 9.5%.  Denver is 8.81%.  Seattle is 10.25%.  Saint Louis is 9.68%.  Dallas is 8.25%.

[torts]

Imagine the comments some of these fuddyduddys would have when the brewers left and they had to still fund the upkeep of an empty baseball stadium with taxpayer funds.  

[Sixtolezcano]

3 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

This. If the Brewers leave, there's no spending the money on something else. The money leaves with the team. 

Yes, that is correct no extra tax money that is spent on American Family Field for the Brewers to play in. Net zero.

[dlk9s]

My permanent address has not been in Wisconsin since 1998. I think I've been to two games at the current stadium. I've seen them in Atlanta probably fewer than ten times. I'd be absolutely crushed if the Brewers left.

[homer]

11 hours ago, torts said:

Imagine the comments some of these fuddyduddys would have when the brewers left and they had to still fund the upkeep of an empty baseball stadium with taxpayer funds.  

Why would they have to maintain an empty stadium?

[Sixtolezcano]

9 minutes ago, homer said:

Why would they have to maintain an empty stadium?

Good question. Maybe for the next MLB team to take advantage of its 1.5 million citizens.

[patrickgpe]

11 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Good question. Maybe for the next MLB team to take advantage of its 1.5 million citizens.

Here's the problem with this statement / sentiment; People enjoy going to brewers games. The government funds parks and many other things that people enjoy doing. Its a quality of living thing. I grant you, Mark Attanasio has made a LOT of money on the taxpayers of Wisconsin, but for whatever reason about 2.5 million people each summer go to brewers games. 

The government is building a new museum for 240 million dollars. Contractors will be making a lot of money on this project, there is no complaining on that. We spent 128 million on the Hop that nobody uses, crickets. I can go on. 

[LouisEly]

23 minutes ago, homer said:

Why would they have to maintain an empty stadium?

Concert revenue.  Liability of people breaking in and getting injured, vandalizing it, using it as a homeless shelter, etc.  It will cost a lot of money to demolish it and dispose of the waste.  And it would make for one helluvan eye sore driving into downtown Milwaukee to have a decrepit old stadium collapsing in on itself, and wouldn't give much confidence to any business that was thinking of making a significant investment to set up shop in Milwaukee.