Brewers' payroll discussion

[homer]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

I don't think I've ever seen fans thaoht absolutely refuse to criticize their favorite team, at all. That's just being unrealistic, imo. They don't walk on water. Does that group of fans here meet once a month somewhere and sing and hold each other's hands? While hoping and praying we get lucky and actually win a WS? I'm a person of action, and some people aren't I guess. 

oh zip it. you're a fan. no better than anyone else here. I would lock the thread but I don't think we want this infecting every other thread so we will leave it open. 

[areacodes]

38 minutes ago, bigred said:

I'm talking about on here. There's only about 3-4 of us on here that openly criticize the team when we believe it's warrated. Me, Turbo, and maybe 1 or 2 others. That's it. Lol nice try. Most of the people on here that obviously can't stand me(and i don't care in the least) , probably work for the Brewes, or know someone that does, and hearing criticism offends them. Well, that's not our problem. 

Nobody is disagreeing with you just because they don’t like bigred… you’re not that special.  You’re getting the pushback from everybody because you’ve yet to present much besides “trust me bro” as your reasoning.  Posters ask you direct questions and you don’t even reply.

What prospects do you find expendable? Who would you target in your trades?  What specifically could the Brewers do to show you they aren’t lying about trying to win a championship?

You said your a person of action unlike the rest of us; what actions have you taken?

[bigred]

28 minutes ago, homer said:

oh zip it. you're a fan. no better than anyone else here. I would lock the thread but I don't think we want this infecting every other thread so we will leave it open. 

Never once have I claimed to be better than anyone here. I'm a mere mortal like everyone else. Some people on here though don't seem to realize that's all they are too. Have a nice night. 

[bigred]

21 minutes ago, areacodes said:

Nobody is disagreeing with you just because they don’t like bigred… you’re not that special.  You’re getting the pushback from everybody because you’ve yet to present much besides “trust me bro” as your reasoning.  Posters ask you direct questions and you don’t even reply.

What prospects do you find expendable? Who would you target in your trades?  What specifically could the Brewers do to show you they aren’t lying about trying to win a championship?

You said your a person of action unlike the rest of us; what actions have you taken?

I meant the organization. You didn't realize that? I'm sick of their lip service. It's time for action. 

[bigred]

22 minutes ago, areacodes said:

Nobody is disagreeing with you just because they don’t like bigred… you’re not that special.  You’re getting the pushback from everybody because you’ve yet to present much besides “trust me bro” as your reasoning.  Posters ask you direct questions and you don’t even reply.

What prospects do you find expendable? Who would you target in your trades?  What specifically could the Brewers do to show you they aren’t lying about trying to win a championship?

You said your a person of action unlike the rest of us; what actions have you taken?

They're not disagreeing? Lol seriously? I'm not dumb. They definitely are. Oh well. That's why it's called a discussion/debate.

[bigred]

53 minutes ago, areacodes said:

Nobody is disagreeing with you just because they don’t like bigred… you’re not that special.  You’re getting the pushback from everybody because you’ve yet to present much besides “trust me bro” as your reasoning.  Posters ask you direct questions and you don’t even reply.

What prospects do you find expendable? Who would you target in your trades?  What specifically could the Brewers do to show you they aren’t lying about trying to win a championship?

You said your a person of action unlike the rest of us; what actions have you taken?

Maybe we'd be better off if Jimmy Haslam bought the team. He's definitely not afraid to spend some $$ and shake things up from time to time to seriously try and compete for a championship. 

[brewerfan82]

[liveforoctober]

Ok! Now finally some answers. After repeatedly asking you to provide one solution you finally come through and say we need the guy who gave Deshaun Watson his contract, arguably the worst contract in the history of professional sports. 

 

[bigred]

7 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

Ok! Now finally some answers. After repeatedly asking you to provide one solution you finally come through and say we need the guy who gave Deshaun Watson his contract, arguably the worst contract in the history of professional sports. 

 

He's not afraid to try though. That was a stupid move though. Haslam would just be the bankroll and not the one making the moves. 

[bigred]

13 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

Ok! Now finally some answers. After repeatedly asking you to provide one solution you finally come through and say we need the guy who gave Deshaun Watson his contract, arguably the worst contract in the history of professional sports. 

 

I provided possible solutions. They just didn't align with your opinions, so therefore, you passed them off as nothing. We have a loaded farm system. Start USING IT! Lol. They've been drafting pretty good for a few years now, so they'd be able to replenish the prospects that would be traded away. 

[wiguy94]

49 minutes ago, bigred said:

Maybe we'd be better off if Jimmy Haslam bought the team. He's definitely not afraid to spend some $$ and shake things up from time to time to seriously try and compete for a championship. 

One of the worst comments in the history of this website. Haslam is one of the worst owners in sports.

[wiguy94]

24 minutes ago, bigred said:

He's not afraid to try though. That was a stupid move though. Haslam would just be the bankroll and not the one making the moves. 

Which circles back to the entire issue of you in this thread. You believe the only way to "try to win" is to spend money on FA and increase payroll. Haslam would run the Brewers out of the city of Milwaukee by making dumb decisions left and right. He's developed a notorious reputation for being overly hands on in team building and hiring decisions. Basically the anti-thesis of what has made the Brewers so good over the last 7+ years. Go root for the Angels. They "try to win" by spending way more on payroll than we do. You'd be much happier over there.

[bigred]

26 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

One of the worst comments in the history of this website. Haslam is one of the worst owners in sports.

In your opinion. 🤷‍♂️

[bigred]

20 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Which circles back to the entire issue of you in this thread. You believe the only way to "try to win" is to spend money on FA and increase payroll. Haslam would run the Brewers out of the city of Milwaukee by making dumb decisions left and right. He's developed a notorious reputation for being overly hands on in team building and hiring decisions. Basically the anti-thesis of what has made the Brewers so good over the last 7+ years. Go root for the Angels. They "try to win" by spending way more on payroll than we do. You'd be much happier over there.

Wrong. You just automatically assume I mean he should spend $200M-$250M. Too many people here think drastically. I'll say it......again. We have a loaded farm system. USE IT! Lol they can replenish it through the draft this coming year and next. 

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, bigred said:

In your opinion. 🤷‍♂️

The Browns have the worst record in the NFL during Haslam's ownership. The Brewers meanwhile have I believe the 7th or 8th best record in MLB during Attanasio's ownership despite owning the smallest market team in a sport without a salary cap. But sure tell us how Haslam would fix anything.

[wiguy94]

6 minutes ago, bigred said:

Wrong. You just automatically assume I mean he should spend $200M-$250M. Too many people here think drastically. I'll say it......again. We have a loaded farm system. USE IT! Lol they can replenish it through the draft this coming year and next. 

The farm system is around the 10th best in the MLB by the reputable sites. I wouldn't say that's loaded. It's a young farm system that is still a year away from really being loaded. You're uninformed and ignorant about basically everything you've complained about in this thread. Maybe if you took some time and researched the organization and how well it's run you'd be happier with the great organization we have or just continue to be miserable over a hobby. Your choice.

[bigred]

5 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

The farm system is around the 10th best in the MLB by the reputable sites. I wouldn't say that's loaded. It's a young farm system that is still a year away from really being loaded. You're uninformed and ignorant about basically everything you've complained about in this thread. Maybe if you took some time and researched the organization and how well it's run you'd be happier with the great organization we have or just continue to be miserable over a hobby. Your choice.

So now you sling insults around, simply because I have a different opinion? Lol. NICE! Apparently this isn't actually a fan forum. It's now morphed into a site where everyone is supposed to believe, and fall in line with the opinions of a certain select few people's opinions, and blindly accept them as being the LAW. Lol wow, yeah, uh-huh, ok. I'll get right on that. 

[SF70]

10 hours ago, bigred said:

I don't think I've ever seen so many fans that absolutely refuse to criticize their favorite team, at all. That's just being unrealistic, imo. They don't walk on water. Does that group of fans here meet once a month somewhere and sing and hold each other's hands? While hoping and praying we get lucky and actually win a WS? I'm a person of action, and some people aren't I guess. 

Why would we criticize the best small-market team in the game?

If you would just listen to the posters that have dived deep into the team’s system, or educate yourself by digging deep you wouldn’t be supposedly feeling the way you do about the team.

One more time —

Mark Attanasio has hired an award winning FO that has rostered winning seasons every full season since their fantastic one (1) year rebuild (with an assist from Doug Melvin) in 2016.

They amazingly have done this WHILE AT THE SAME TIME completely rebuilding their infrastructure. That infrastructure has now been completed which has DIRECTLY LEAD to having one of the best prospect-procurement systems in the game, IF NOT THE BEST. They had the best  draft in baseball (According to ‘Down on the farm’ a prospect site) in 2023. They had a top IFA class in 2024 (According to Baseball America). A vastly underrated class (According to me) in 2024. And a top 5 exciting IFA class in 2025 (BA).

This has lead to the top “young” farm system in baseball and a year or so away from having the best system in the game. This system will be used to make the teams of 2027 and beyond as talented as any team outside of the Dodgers in the NL, this according to ‘Just Baseball’, and many of us “DEEP DIVE” Brewers fans.

The current core is playoff worthy but more than a couple of upgrades from approaching the talent-level of more than a few teams, so trading away prospects now vs letting them develop is NOT WISE.

My advice is to listen to the deep divers on this site who have knowledge of what’s happening “under the hood” with this organization OR dive in yourself. You will have a much more informed understanding of why our best in baseball FO is doing what they are doing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

11 hours ago, bigred said:

I don't think I've ever seen so many fans that absolutely refuse to criticize their favorite team, at all. That's just being unrealistic, imo. They don't walk on water. Does that group of fans here meet once a month somewhere and sing and hold each other's hands? While hoping and praying we get lucky and actually win a WS? I'm a person of action, and some people aren't I guess. 

I will not deny that while dramatized, you have a point here. You're a fan so I am not sure what action you are expecting any fan to take. However I would agree there is a tendency to shut down any criticism here as being disloyal, not a real fan, whatever, etc., and we should always just be happy with whatever result we get as long as they finish above .500. 

Seems like it's blasphemy to suggest maybe trying something different to get over the last hurdle, rather we should just be thankful for what we have 100% of the time.

[bigred]

28 minutes ago, SF70 said:

Why would we criticize the best small-market team in the game?

If you would just listen to the posters that have dived deep into the team’s system, or educate yourself by digging deep you wouldn’t be supposedly feeling the way you do about the team.

One more time —

Mark Attanasio has hired an award winning FO that has rostered winning seasons every full season since their fantastic one (1) year rebuild (with an assist from Doug Melvin) in 2016.

They amazingly have done this WHILE AT THE SAME TIME completely rebuilding their infrastructure. That infrastructure has now been completed which has DIRECTLY LEAD to having one of the best prospect-procurement systems in the game, IF NOT THE BEST. They had the best  draft in baseball (According to ‘Down on the farm’ a prospect site) in 2023. They had a top IFA class in 2024 (According to Baseball America). A vastly underrated class (According to me) in 2024. And a top 5 exciting IFA class in 2025 (BA).

This has lead to the top “young” farm system in baseball and a year or so away from having the best system in the game. This system will be used to make the teams of 2027 and beyond as talented as any team outside of the Dodgers in the NL, this according to ‘Just Baseball’, and many of us “DEEP DIVE” Brewers fans.

The current core is playoff worthy but more than a couple of upgrades from approaching the talent-level of more than a few teams, so trading away prospects now vs letting them develop is NOT WISE.

My advice is to listen to the deep divers on this site who have knowledge of what’s happening “under the hood” with this organization OR dive in yourself. You will have a much more informed understanding of why our best in baseball FO is doing what they are doing.

I don't need to deep dive to know they could easily make a move or 2 once in a while to try and get better now. Notice how when the ownership group took over, they went out and made a splash to get Yelich, and since, absolutely nothing but a bunch of "bites at the apple" trying to get lucky.  I think getting Yelich was only meant to make our fan base think they were serious about winning a championship How many bites at the apple will it take before our fanbase gets full of apple, and start wanting a better chance at steak or lobster? 

[bigred]

20 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I will not deny that while dramatized, you have a point here. You're a fan so I am not sure what action you are expecting any fan to take. However I would agree there is a tendency to shut down any criticism here as being disloyal, not a real fan, whatever, etc., and we should always just be happy with whatever result we get as long as they finish above .500. 

Seems like it's blasphemy to suggest maybe trying something different to get over the last hurdle, rather we should just be thankful for what we have 100% of the time.

Exactly. Thank you. At least there's another person here now that understands that. 

[Playing Catch]

Over on the Transactions Forum, we've been debating which players to bring in using the farm all winter. Luis Robert? He's a really good player the Brewers could empty the farm for. There were threads about pitching, like the recently traded Jesus Luzardo.

I think that many of us are more comfortable criticizing the front office after they make a move, rather than being critical that they haven't made a move.

For myself, that has a lot to do with the other teams or players involved. Teams don't want to give up their best players. In your Yelich example, the Marlins were having a fire sale. That's the only reason he was available. In terms of free agents, there are many players that simply don't want to play for Milwaukee (like a no-trade list).

Anecdotally, many of us have also noticed a recent trend around the league that MANY teams are hesitant to trade their prospects, not just the Brewers.

In terms of decisions the Brewers have made that bug me? I'm still chafed that they traded away Reese Olson for Daniel Norris, and the board universally disagreed that they didn't protect Shane Smith for the Rule 5 draft.

 

I think there are a lot of Brewer fans that still bask in the glow of trading for CC Sabathia, and Zack Grienke. Those two moves allowed the Brewers to make the playoffs a couple of seasons. Of course, the Indians got all-star outfielder, Michael Brantley for Sabathia, and the Royals got Lorenzo Cain and Alcides Escobar, defensive stalwarts to their World Series victory.

[homer]

24 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I will not deny that while dramatized, you have a point here. You're a fan so I am not sure what action you are expecting any fan to take. However I would agree there is a tendency to shut down any criticism here as being disloyal, not a real fan, whatever, etc., and we should always just be happy with whatever result we get as long as they finish above .500. 

Seems like it's blasphemy to suggest maybe trying something different to get over the last hurdle, rather we should just be thankful for what we have 100% of the time.

I suggest you take a trip through the in-game threads if you think this site lacks criticism.

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

6 minutes ago, bigred said:

Exactly. Thank you. At least there's another person here now that understands that. 

The fan base here in particular has adapted the risk-averse model of the ownership group. I am not smart enough to say who is right or wrong. But there is a sizeable risk with Yelich-type moves. You are seeing it play out right now. His contract sucks, though it could be far worse. It is a big risk to take, that in no way ensures better results. Plunging hard into 1 or 2 seasons also is far less likely to work than it was in the past, IMO, due to the simple fact that the contracts are drastically more out of control than they were when the Marlins and DBacks tried similar strategies. 

There are two groups of fans. Ones who are strict develop-in-house people, and ones who at least think they are willing to take a huge risk to add MLB talent to the roster immediately. Of course if those risks don't pan out, the fans then immediately blame the team for losing and stop coming to games. As a random guy who doesn't suffer any of the consequences of losing, I would also like to see something big happen, but realistically I know it isn't going to, it's just not what this team does.

[bigred]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I will not deny that while dramatized, you have a point here. You're a fan so I am not sure what action you are expecting any fan to take. However I would agree there is a tendency to shut down any criticism here as being disloyal, not a real fan, whatever, etc., and we should always just be happy with whatever result we get as long as they finish above .500. 

Seems like it's blasphemy to suggest maybe trying something different to get over the last hurdle, rather we should just be thankful for what we have 100% of the time.

I'm not expecting them to make a serious trade/signing every year, or up their payroll tremendously. But the ownership group could definitely spend more than what they do. Instead of feeding us bites of apple every year, and praying it tastes like steak, it would be nice to actually be fed actual steak once in a while.