Brewers' payroll discussion

[liveforoctober]

7 hours ago, bigred said:

Wrong. Why does almost everyone here always think making moves to try and get over the hump, means adding boatloads of salary? I've said many times now, that since they've had a deep farm system for several years now, I'm beyond frustrated that they basically refuse to make a significant move by using it, to try and get better. Maybe if you actually read all of my comments, and actually tried to understand my point somewhat, instead of just rapidly scanning through them in a hurry to respond, you'd know ive said that many times. 

Your stance of "we are being gaslit by the organization" can only be directed at salary, because you are otherwise telling us you have direct knowledge of the conversations we are and are not having with other teams regarding trades.

Do you work for the Brewers front office?

Because if not "basically refuse to make a significant move by using (prospects)" is misguided with no basis of proof. 

[Playing Catch]

17 hours ago, bigred said:

I'm mainly tired of them not using the deep farm system we've had for a few years now.

In the last few years, they've used that deep system to supply their 26-man roster... and the 26-man rosters for 2025, 2026, 2027, and 2028.

[Underachiever]

On 1/25/2025 at 1:10 PM, bigred said:

Most actually try and do it though, or if they don't, their fan base finally catches on to their lies, and find other teams to root for. 

So what keeps you here?

[bigred]

1 hour ago, Underachiever said:

So what keeps you here?

I've always rooted for the Crew, and always will. I was born and raised here, and lived here my whole life. So fans aren't allowed to criticize their favorite teams? Really? 

[Underachiever]

4 hours ago, bigred said:

I've always rooted for the Crew, and always will. I was born and raised here, and lived here my whole life. So fans aren't allowed to criticize their favorite teams? Really? 

Nope. I asked a question. You feel lied to. That seems like dealbreaker to me.

[bigred]

1 hour ago, Underachiever said:

Nope. I asked a question. You feel lied to. That seems like dealbreaker to me.

And I answered your question. Have a good night. There's no feel about it. We have been. I just acknowledge it, and others choose not to. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

And I answered your question. Have a good night. There's no feel about it. We have been. I just acknowledge it, and others choose not to. 

No, because lying implies intent. You have offered zero evidence that the Brewers don’t believe this is their best strategy to win a World Series. Simply stating that you don’t think they should believe that isn’t the same thing. You disagree with their team-building philosophy. That’s fine. But anything beyond that just isn’t supported by any of your arguments.

[homer]

Not sure what the "lie" is. Unless you think the owner is lying about profit and loss. No way to prove that though. Attanasio has said he wants to make a profit every year. A few years he has said he's lost money. Given that and given our limited revenue compared to bigger markets we are always going to have a mid tier at best payroll. Where he spends money is on minor leagues, training facilities, and international signings. 

[homer]

There are probably 8 - 10 teams whose fanbases can legitimately complain about not spending like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets etc. Off the top of my head those would be Cubs, Red Sox, Braves, Rangers, Astros, Giants, Phillies, Blue Jays, Angels, and maybe Padres. The Padres went for it in 2023 and had the third-highest payroll. They ended up 82 - 80 and missed the playoffs. They were 15th last year and made the playoffs so we will see if they ever go on a spending binge again. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

On 1/25/2025 at 5:40 PM, bigred said:

I'm mainly tired of them not using the deep farm system we've had for a few years now. At all. Not all of our higher prospects will make it to Milwaukee, so they might as well try using some to get better now, before some get injured or fizzle out, and lose pretty much all of their trade value. 

So ... if I'm reading this correctly, you want the Brewers to only trade the prospects who are likely to "fizzle out" for proven MLB studs, who likely come with a high price tag? Sounds easy enough. MLB teams are typically lining up to participate in those types of deals.

Seems like a good plan! What are they waiting for???

[bigred]

13 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

So ... if I'm reading this correctly, you want the Brewers to only trade the prospects who are likely to "fizzle out" for proven MLB studs, who likely come with a high price tag? Sounds easy enough. MLB teams are typically lining up to participate in those types of deals.

Seems like a good plan! What are they waiting for???

No. You're not reading it correctly. I said obviously not all of our higher prospects will make it to Milwaukee, so they might as well trade a few here and there before some either get injured or hit their ceiling and lose trade value, to try and get the Brewers over the hump now. It was pretty self explanatory. You were way off. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

9 hours ago, bigred said:

No. You're not reading it correctly. I said obviously not all of our higher prospects will make it to Milwaukee, so they might as well trade a few here and there before some either get injured or hit their ceiling and lose trade value, to try and get the Brewers over the hump now. It was pretty self explanatory. You were way off. 

LOL ... sure Bub. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I totally get the frustration from Brewers fans about feeling stuck where they are in the progression of things. That is a totally valid feeling to have. But one look at what these marquee players are getting and it's obvious that is just never going to be the approach. One of these contracts going bad is utterly crippling for Milwaukee. Yelich's kind of sucks as it is, and it could be so much worse.

IMO - the league is dumb and broken beyond repair, but blaming Milwaukee is just venting spleen. You can't blame the league because it isn't going to change, so you blame what is in your purview, the owner, because it's feasible (not really) that someone else could do it better. It is pretty hopeless to me as far as thinking the Brewers will ever win a championship, but if they are always in the mix at the end you keep alive that one random year where the Dodgers are hit hard by injuries or something and the window cracks open for you. 

I have adjusted my reality personally. I just hope that there are more good days than bad and that there's a team to follow in August. That is really all you can ask.

[jay87shot]

For me, I just want to see the idea that there is consistent spending that shows Attenasio is making a huge profit. I worry that in the past couple years there have been things like the 30 million dollar payment when the mlb sold some tv thing to Disney and it didn't seem like we spent that money on the team (maybe Hoskins but then we traded Burnes). I couple years ago we had an opening day payroll of 130+ and we have gone down to the point of around 110 currently this year. With two sold years making the playoff I don't feel like salary should go down that much even with the broadcasting uncertainties. I feel like anyone connected enough to the past knows that this market won't support a top 15 payroll long term but there really shouldn't be as much up and down considering the consistent solid play and consistently good fan attendance (top 16 in league every year since 2007)

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Could Attanasio spend more on payroll and improve the team? I think there is no denying that answer is yes. But looking at other ownership situations in MLB makes me think that Brewer fans actually have it pretty good. Anyone who lived through the 70s or that roughly 1984-2005ish era lived through much, much worse. 

When you consider that, watching this team be run well and regularly make the playoffs is pretty dang awesome.

[Playing Catch]

42 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Could Attanasio spend more on payroll and improve the team? I think there is no denying that answer is yes.

And maintain a profit margin that is acceptable for the rest of the ownership group?

 

43 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

But looking at other ownership situations in MLB makes me think that Brewer fans actually have it pretty good.

And not just MLB, but across all of sports. the ownership group is the most important indicator for future success. That's probably true across most privately held companies. Smart owners aren't going to take for granted that people keep paying for the product. Attanasio knows that the only reason the Brewers have "value" in Milwaukee is because he's offering a good product, so that the fans care and show up. Otherwise you are locked into a long-term lease in an aging stadium playing games in front of 7,500 fans. THAT's not a team you can sell for a huge profit.

And it's not just about spending for spending sake. The Washington Commanders fanbase tarred and feathered free-agent spender, Dan Snyder on his way out of town. Now they're playing in NFC championships.

[Jopal78]

20 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

And maintain a profit margin that is acceptable for the rest of the ownership group?

 

And not just MLB, but across all of sports. the ownership group is the most important indicator for future success. That's probably true across most privately held companies. Smart owners aren't going to take for granted that people keep paying for the product. Attanasio knows that the only reason the Brewers have "value" in Milwaukee is because he's offering a good product, so that the fans care and show up. Otherwise you are locked into a long-term lease in an aging stadium playing games in front of 7,500 fans. THAT's not a team you can sell for a huge profit.

And it's not just about spending for spending sake. The Washington Commanders fanbase tarred and feathered free-agent spender, Dan Snyder on his way out of town. Now they're playing in NFC championships.

You are incorrect about value. Pro sports teams have become the ultimate investment. They are scarce. There is no risk of losing your money: they’ll never go out of business, and the sale prices only go up. Plus only the elite investors can get in due to the amount of capital needed to buy one. The value of Attanasio’s team isn’t tied to fans in the seats it’s tied to what other teams sell for, and intangibles like “heritage” and  “brand”.

Judging by the teams they fielded during his ownership, he is aware however the revenue generated from the smallest market in MLB is influenced almost entirely by the product on the field. Good teams on the field mean more luxury suite leases, more consumers of game broadcasts, more licensing fees, internet clicks, merch sales, ticket sales, concessions and parking, etc.

With their run the last 5 years the potential market revenue is very likely maxed or close to maxed out. So there really is no reason for him to sink more money in his team, and while fans might be disappointed to see Burnes and Adames leave for more money elsewhere the fact they do probably doesn’t bother him that much as an owner. 

[Playing Catch]

18 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

There is no risk of losing your money: they’ll never go out of business, and the sale prices only go up.

I totally agree with this. But I think the "value" of the franchise is tied up in the viability of the stadium/market. If Attanasio doesn't maintain the viability of both, particularly with the recent extension of the lease, the value of a one-billion dollar franchise (arbitrary number) could dip considerably. Whenever the team is sold, there WILL be a profit, but that doesn't mean the profit isn't variable.

[liveforoctober]

I am realizing more and more as I read these threads that there are a lot of Brewers fans who believe if the Brewers profit $10mil dollars in a season that Mark Attanasio has an extra $10mil in his pocket.

[bigred]

2 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

LOL ... sure Bub. 

What did I say that's not true? It's a fact, that most of our, let's say top 20 prospects will never make it to Milwaukee, or another team. It's been talked about on this site even, many times, how the majority of MLB prospects never make it to the majors. Lol you just only think of other people's statements 1 way. Your way. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

8 minutes ago, bigred said:

What did I say that's not true? It's a fact, that most of our, let's say top 20 prospects will never make it to Milwaukee, or another team. It's been talked about on this site even, many times, how the majority of MLB prospects never make it to the majors. Lol you just only think of other people's statements 1 way. Your way. 

Most of? I don't know if that is necessarily correct.

You speak with a lot of "certainties". So how about this ... put some specifics out there. Which of our top 20 prospects would you deal? And for whom?

[yfinn6]

Only the ones who won't be good MLB players for the Brewers and we should deal them for other teams' best players. DUH! 

[bigred]

1 hour ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Most of? I don't know if that is necessarily correct.

You speak with a lot of "certainties". So how about this ... put some specifics out there. Which of our top 20 prospects would you deal? And for whom?

Some of the ones that other teams are interested in, of course. There's plenty of them I'm sure. I mean, how many SS and CF prospects do we really need? You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. True baseball fans know that the % of MLB prospects that actually make it to the majors, is pretty low. Even 1st rd picks, compensatory picks, 2nd rd, etc. That shouldn't be a new concept. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

31 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

Only the ones who won't be good MLB players for the Brewers and we should deal them for other teams' best players. DUH! 

Simple, right? I mean, all those trades are accepted when I play MLB The Show! How is real life any different?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

16 minutes ago, bigred said:

Some of the ones that other teams are interested in, of course. There's plenty of them I'm sure. I mean, how many SS and CF prospects do we really need? You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. True baseball fans know that the % of MLB prospects that actually make it to the majors, is pretty low. Even 1st rd picks, compensatory picks, 2nd rd, etc. That shouldn't be a new concept. 

OK ... considering how long teenage prospect take to hit the majors, go back, say, 6 years or so and look at the Brewers' top 20. By my count, 14 of the 20 played in the majors, Go back to 2016, and its 13. Go back to 2014, and its 17. Granted, not all of those players have had long MLB careers, but a good portion of them have. 

To answer your question about "how many SS and CF prospects do we really need?", that answer is a lot, as the players who play those positions are typically the best athletes, which makes them more versatile and makes it substantially easier to change positions later on. That, sir, is not a new conept.