Villenueva Is opening in the Minors a possiblity? (Yost hints they may not go with 5 best starters)

[logan82]

I would have said that JB prefers to worry about this season and this season only without looking to the future.

[Ennder]

Sorry if it sounded harsh but I feel it is the truth so I had to say it. If he is going to keep posting diggs at people who disagree with him on guys like Capuano I'm going to be very frank with my opinions.

[LUKE232323]

I will be absoluely LIVID if CV is in the minors. He's arguably our THIRD best starter, and in a pretty solid sample size last year proved he can pitch.

 

I will go ape if this happens.

[JohnBriggs12]

I would have said that JB prefers to worry about this season and this season only without looking to the future.

They're the ones that say they "expect this team to be in playoffs".

 

Yost is a moron if he thinks he can win with Capuano and Vargas both in his rotation.

 

As to the future, does anyone expect them to give either of those guys long term deals? They've already priced themselves high enough in arbitration to reduce their trade value to nil.

 

 

[bullox]

or the lefty that's on a 22 appearence losing streak that everyone here is so fond of.

Nice one, antagonizing the whole forum. Bravo.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

or the lefty that's on a 22 appearence losing streak that everyone here is so fond of.

Nice one, antagonizing the whole forum. Bravo.

 

 

I call them as I see them bullox. Just because my opinion isn't the majority doesn't make it wrong.

[twobrewers]

Ennder...thanks for dropping some truth.

Villenueva has certainly performed well. But we have no indications that he will continue to perform well. Capuano was an all star. Bush has been very dependable and consistant. To say that Villenueva is better than Capuano, Bush and Suppan is a stretch based off of relatively small samples.

Right now, Villenueva is the hot cheerleader in high school. Looks great and everything - but probably can't live up to the billing.

However, I will say one thing for Villenueva that I have been impressed with. The kid seems to have ice water in his veins. Which, frankly played a role in his success in the pen last year.

 

 

[twobrewers]

Apparently "roster control" is more important than having your best players on the field. Man what a tragedy it would be if they lost control of Vargas or the lefty that's on a 22 appearence losing streak that everyone here is so fond of.

To be fair, Ennder gave several specific examples of flaws he sees in your argument.

 

Your counter argument has been that Capuano and Bush are no good - but with no data to support this assertion. (Although, I think everyone will agree that Vargas is probably better than Villaneuva)

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

If Capuano and Vargas are in the rotation with Villy in the minors, I will no longer be a Brewer fan.

[LUKE232323]

I think it's pretty much time to just ignore John Briggs completely.

[JoeHova]

People shouldn't keep saying "we have no reason to believe Villanueva will continue to pitch well", imo. What we don't have is reason to expect he won't pitch well. He just turned 24 and has never had an ERA above 4 in his career, including his 2 partial seasons in Milwaukee.

 

He may not be "sexy" like a Mark Rogers or Jeremy Jeffress but he has gotten results at every level, which I believe means he's earned a solid spot in the rotation. If he sucks, demote him, but that doesn't seem likely given his track record. His stuff may not be great but he's figured out a way to get it done at every level so far. I think his peripherals are bound to improve.

[1992casey]

There are three or four recent posts in this thread with ad hominem comments. Let's end it.

[logan82]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

Yost is a moron if he thinks he can win with Capuano and Vargas both in his rotation.

I haven't seen anybody putting Vargas in a rotation anywhere. More than likley Villanueva at least until Gallardo is back. Bush and Capuano probably pass Villy based on their prior consistency.

[trwi7]

twobrewers wrote:

(Although, I think everyone will agree that Vargas is probably better than Villaneuva)

 

No I think everyone here will agree that Villanueva is better than Vargas. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ozzybourne]

(Although, I think everyone will agree that Vargas is probably better than Villaneuva)

you are kidding, right?

 

 

if this assertion of villy going to minors is correct, the brewers are putting him into the 5 spot to pitch in the second week or so. this is not bad. and it gives the rotation of benny, jeffy, cappy, and davey (sorry yost believers) a chance to see whats what between cappy and bush. call it improvement through attrition. one of them falls out, add yo and villy, and by the end of april you have your staff.

[DrWood]

how many pitchers on our staff have ever had 26 quality starts in a season? I can see some trepidation after last season, but I can't see the hatred that has been leveled at Capuano. I can't see hatred leveled at any of the prospective starters, actually. None of them are craptacular, at least as bottom of the rotation guys.

Personally, I'm hoping that Estrada was the downfall of some of our pitchers last season. If Capuano goes back to being a 4.00ERA guy that goes 6 or more innings almost every start, I'm fine with that, and I think it's a real possibility.

Thing is, Maddox and Yost et al. should have a pretty good idea at the end of ST regarding which guys can do the job and which guys can't. I'm willing to put that responsibility in their hands, where it belongs.

[LUKE232323]

Capuano has a career 4.39 ERA, career 1.36 WHIP, and career .266 BAA. Considering that with everyone healthy he's probably our #5 starter, is that really that bad? His two years prior to 2007 were very good. I'm willing to bet if he's in the rotation next year he's at worst in the top half of #5 starters in the National League.

 

Not having CV in the rotation makes absolutely no sense though. None. I don't think it will happen either.

[TooLiveBrew]

I can't see the hatred that has been leveled at Capuano. I can't see hatred leveled at any of the prospective starters, actually.

 

It's not hatred. It's just people refusing to look any deeper than the methods they think they understand. Any objective analysis reveals just how strong our SP situation actually is.

 

Another thing - there's no reason to get bent out of shape about what this Villy situation means, long term. All this is imo is the organization doing what's best in the big picture. Villy can start down in AAA if it means showcasing some SP trade candidates. None of them are bad enough that it'd cost the team games imho, and any return from a trade will be valuable for the org., short and long-term.

[sbrylski]

(Although, I think everyone will agree that Vargas is probably better than Villaneuva)

you are kidding, right?

I think he mixed them up.

 

 

I haven't seen anybody putting Vargas in a rotation anywhere.

 

Actually, I think he's in at this point. Sheets, Suppan, Capuano, Bush, Vargas. When Gallardo comes back, Vargas gets axed, traded, or DLed. Parra in AAA, Villanueva likely in the pen.

 

 

My comments:

 

1) This is being overblown a bit. Its just posturing. If anything, the thing to take away from this is that despite Gallardo's knee problem, we are still shopping pitching.

 

2) Like Ennder has pointed out, Villanueva is a bit overrated around here. Scouts and secondary stats both have always suggested he's a mid-4's ERA pitcher, just like Bush and Capuano. It makes more sense to give the starting spots to the vets in that case, I would think.

 

3) Don't worry, Carlos will get his starts next season, no question about it. Even if he does start in AAA, it'll be partially to keep him stretched out to assume a starting role at the first trade/injury.

[LUKE232323]

Actually, I think he's in at this point. Sheets, Suppan, Capuano, Bush, Vargas. When Gallardo comes back, Vargas gets axed, traded, or DLed. Parra in AAA, Villanueva likely in the pen.

That would be pretty much a nightmare scenario. No Gallardo and no Villanueva to start the year and Vargas in the rotation. Words cannot describe how mad I will be if that happens.

 

(pared back long nested quote --1992)

[mothershipconnection]

The team exists in 2008 to win games, even if it means dumping off surplus starting pitching for not-so-great of a return.

 

That reminds me of an econ professor I once had who would proclaim "sunk costs don't count" about 8 times per lecture.

[twobrewers]

twobrewers wrote:

(Although, I think everyone will agree that Vargas is probably better than Villaneuva)

No I think everyone here will agree that Villanueva is better than Vargas.

HOLY CRAP!

 

Sorry for that typo. I should have been banned immediately for posting anything that stupid!

 

Yes, I obviously meant that Villanueva is better than Vargas.

 

 

(cleaned up code --1992)

[ozzybourne]

why would ned yost even say anything like this so early in camp? if he is a "players manager' and 'sticks up for his guys' he should keep his mouth shut about anything like this. very foolish. no wonder yost is on a short leash.

[TooLiveBrew]

We fans often forget that nearly anything a player or coach says in the media is in direct response to a question from a reporter.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

There are three or four recent posts in this thread with ad hominem comments. Let's end it.

What does ad hominem mean? Isn't that latin?