BrewerFan

The "crowing," pun is good maybe once...after that, not so much. I think I'll miss what Taylor provided down the stretch. He was also swinging the bat REALLY well in the series vs AZ. 2R HR and then that bullet where Adames got doubled off. But you're right. It WAS a position of strength. I think Wieguy is arguing we didn't get enough value back and that you're really understating the value these guys brought because they weren't middle of the order hitters or top of the rotation arms. It does in this context. You can't argue a player is overpaid when the market repeatedly proves you wrong. These players went into Free Agency, they got paid...and you're arguing they're overpaid? That's the market telling you exactly what their value is. I understand we had an excess of OFers and it made sense to trade from them, but Taylor very likely had a role in the 2024 OF had they kept him. You have Yelich, Mitchell and Frelick who are all lefties. Perkins put up a ..192/.276/.327 for a paltry .603 OPS last year. Wiemer may well end up being our RHed bat...but it seems likely he needs time in AAA. So I see plenty of opportunities for Taylor, if he were to remain in Milwaukee to be a RHed bat off the bench. Certainly worth the 1.7M. I hope they end up being right about Crow...but you're likely hoping he ends up as good as Houser. So...he had value. Again, not "crowing" about this trade, but it feels more like a salary dump...and underselling the value the players we traded had to this team seems...a bit disingenuous.

Scheiner and Devanney are not the same player. Devanney is a SS/3B who plays outstanding defense. Scheiner is a 3B/1B who does not.

Houser is NOT overpaid and I hate the term "innings eater," in a derogatory manner. You NEED people to throw innings. He's thrown over 350 the last 3 years and his ERA is right about 4.00. In no way is that remotely overpaid when looking at starting pitching. He's a good, valuable pitcher and that much more valuable when you're looking at these 6 man rotations that we've shifted toward. Taylor...I think high quality is a pretty fitting description of him as a 4th OFer. He can play all 3 OF positions at a high level and he's got power. 2.1 WAR in '22, 1.7 in '21. Last year he dealt with the arm injury, but he was carrying us toward the end of last year. I think that's pretty high quality for a 4th OFer. You traded away ~3 WAR a season roughly...and you got back a pitcher with a low ceiling. I'm not going to mourn the loss of Houser, but it's a blow and he was hardly overpaid in 2023.

Well, for the sake of argument, you'd justifiably be able to keep him in the minors for quite a while rehabbing(6 weeks is it?)...and then given that he's coming back off TJ, it wouldn't be hard to say he's dealing with more arm fatigue and then do that again. But you're still well short of the service time requisite and you head into '25 in the same situation.

I'd think it'd be the current years draft pool(meaning the year the player was drafted) and then the time before the draft allows for the potential punishment(if you went over enough to lose the pick). But I've tried looking that up as well and can't find it. I do wonder what a guy like Misiorowski would have done if he'd been offered 1.8M. Would he turn that down and roll the dice in the draft? He wasn't someone everyone had on their top 100 boards IIRC. He was a guy people were all over the board on. He got a bigger bonus, but that was after he had more leverage as the 2nd rd pick. I'm sure it's going to be rare though.

They could have just non-tendered them. They must like Crow's arm somewhat.

I really like MLF, think he's a good coach for Love, the offense...but IF he's lost the locker room, even if it's just because of Barry, then you may be right. There's so little information available beyond the obvious fact that players are not happy, it's hard to tell. How badly hurt IS Jaire? Two years ago he had that broken shoulder and we kept hoping he'd be back, it played out like this and he was back part-time vs SF and not able to tackle Deebo. I think we'll again find out after this season what the injury was and have a better idea. I'd like to hear what Kenny Clark thinks. He's a professional, never had ANY attitude issues and he's the most veteran leader on the team. This cannot be allowed to snowball. Players can't talk about not playing banged up because of coaching remarks and coaches need to be smart enough to have the pulse of the locker room. And as much as I like Jim Leonhard, if a guy like Saleh(he won't) becomes available, it may be a good idea to get a former HC in there. Zimmer perhaps... I'd love to see Al Harris brought back to GB as the DBs coach/passing game coordinator. Not sure that's a good enough promotion, but spend the money. What the hell else do the Packers have to do with it? I don't know how good of a coach Stenovich is since he doesn't call plays(the OL has improved as the season has gone on). There are a lot of things to be excited about with this team. Love, the young talent on both sides who've played well individually. We're close personnel-wise. Just young players growing, a LT, Safety...but with a team this young, leadership is as important as anything.

Yeah, it was a let down. Leonhard turned down the job, then it was between two coaches, one who'd never been a DC, one who was an up-and-coming coach. I tried to be optimistic as Preston Smith was probably one of the 2-3 best players Barry had in Washington or Det, but he'd failed as a DC. It really feels like MLF talks to Barry every year, he adjusts a little bit, they play better and then he just goes back to nickel playing Quarters or as it was last week, some SOFT ass cover 6 on 3rd and 4.

The examples I gave. That he wanted to fire Pettine and he was convinced to keep him an extra year, the fact that he wanted to give Rizzi the job and they low-balled him, and then the fact that he was pressured to hire Drayton. That Murphy got involved in the process AT-ALL is a problem that dates back several years. And yes, firing people is not fun. It never is and I get that. But it needs to be done. This was surprising, but I really doubt this is about fan criticism. This sounds like it's coming from in the locker room. I'd thought it really didn't matter if they made the move in-season or next season, but they need to make it now.

Ok...that's what I was wondering about. That'd be a good way to use a couple of late picks following talented HS arms that are going to Juco's. I'd imagine most talented Juco arms will end up transferring to 4 year schools.

No, they reinstated the draft and follow rules. If you're picked after the 10th rd and going to a Juco, you can still make an offer...but I don't know how much you can offer. 250K, but I don't know if you go over how that would work. Maybe you can't?

Yeah, it's clearly a bigger issue, but you can't change or impact that, you can impact where he plays in the field. Also...may be totally unrelated, but I've got a friend who is a tank. He doesn't have any problem working all day doing whatever...we spent a weekend cutting down a bunch of trees and splitting and then stacking them up at my Uncle's place. Then he goes hunting and he's in the blind and his back is killing him and locking up because he's NOT moving and he's sitting too much. So he's fine picking up a 100-pound log, tossing it, whatever, but just standing or sitting and his back starts bothering him. I don't get it, but can't see why he's be lying to me.

I don't trust the structure anymore. Everyone is blaming MLF. Maybe rightly so, maybe it's not his call because it hasn't been his call at times in the past(as I mentioned, extra year of Pettine, Rizzi, Drayton pushed on him, all things Coordinator decisions he seemingly had little say over). Is it Murphy? When that idiot opened his mouth talking about how they'll bring Rodgers back if things don't work out how they want them to(or however he worded it) well before the trade was completed, seemingly giving the Jets some control, it was more confirmation he's taking a heavier hand in the Football operations. That's NOT how Harlan turned this ship around or how he ran things under McCarthy. I trust the player evaluation process right now...mostly. MLF is a good offensive coach(IMO). There are some questions about the rest of the leadership. Gutekunst is the one guy who's gone from really hated to having a little more respect among fans. He's dating pretty well, but there seems to be some dysfunction at the top.

I think we just let camp play out. I can easily envision a scenario in which Mitchell is hitting 3rd on opening day or starting in AAA. We have a whole spring and I think the only one who's guaranteed a spot as of now...among the young OFers...is Chourio. And even he could easily end up spending some time in AAA if he struggled. Not much, but some. Mitchell has ~140 career ABs. When he was called up, people were clamoring for Frelick. He's not really proven anything as a hitter and defensively, the gap isn't big enough to say you just have to have Mitchell in the lineup. I really like Wiemer. I hope he has a great ST'ing and earns the RF job. IF you meant it'd be a waste to have him as a 4th OFer, that I'd agree with. We have Taylor and Perkins, so if Wiemer or Mitchell struggles, then they can work in AAA, I'd agree with that. If they're on the 26-man, they should be starting at this point.

Let's move Chourio back to SS. Yelich goes to 3B(he played 1B, how hard can 3rd be). Let's call Lara back up there...he's young, and he slides over to RF and Wiemer, he's a bigger guy, big arm. We can teach guys how to catch. Dump Contreras and let's start Joey at C!

The quote also misses him qualifying by saying "uh, I THINK it's kinda like," and then saying again, "I think it's a situation where," guessing as to the Brewers situation, not just flatly refusing to sign an extension IF the Brewers unloaded Yelich and used his salary to buffer their offer. "Hey, we'll see what happens," is how he finishes it, not with "not happening." That seemed like a pretty diplomatic answer speculating as to why the Brewers haven't made an offer, not a flat out dismissal.

Rob Grosso could be an option. I don't know if it's on MLF or a structural change with Murphy interfering in the hiring process as he's done a couple times, but it's not pretty in any event.

Are you talking about the Wan'Dale Robinson play where he beat Nixon or one of the earlier plays and not the last series? You could...if you cared to...argue that we're young in the secondary and we just don't have the talent and Stokes is just back, Jaire still out(just tell us what exactly the injury is so we're not guessing as we were when he had a broken shoulder and guessing each week and people aren't speculating he doesn't want to play). That he's getting heat last week for playing off, he plays press and we get burned...but Barry is just so timid and weak, it doesn't matter. He's awful. He doesn't elevate his players in any way. We have good stretches, seemingly it's in spite of him. He had an awesome gameplay vs the Lions and the Chiefs(I'd look at whoever came up with that, sure as hell wasn't Barry).

When and where did he say this? I heard him say he was offered a two-year deal and that it was "pretty bad," last year, I haven't seen HIM say he's "priced himself out of Milwaukee." I think we all know he has, but he said that out loud?

True, but we should have quite a bit more offensive firepower coming up this year and next. But if we're trying to compete now...losing Adames would be a big blow. I'm also fine with that. I'd rather trade Burnes, Adames, Williams(players with less than 2 years of team control) and get pitching so that when Chourio, Black, Frelick, Quero...etc...all start hitting their stride, we have another window open.

I don't think they're able to sign Burnes...but this also isn't my quote. I've never heard him say, "not happening, Burnes said it himself," or he ever flatly dismissed that he'd sign with the Brewers.

Barry has to go...but to be fair, the heat he took at the end of the Giants game by the likes of Peter Bukowski...is comical. They show him playing off, giving up a couple smaller gains on the last drive and complaining about playing off(which is fine). And then ignore the next play where they play press and Robinson burns Nixon off the line. He's bad, we all know that. I REALLY hope a couple good game plans don't change what he's failed to do on balance over 3 years with the talent he's had. I'm moving from Alt to Fuaga and then maybe coming back and getting a guy like Donovan Jackson, the LG from OSU(he'd play RG). Myers has played well recently, but you can also open that up. But Jackson is similar to Jenkins. He has long arms(even for an OT) and he's extremely physical and quick. Fuaga is just a mauler and has really good athleticism. I still think in terms of All Pro's, Alt will be the best in this class(her or Harrison Jr). Fashanu is also probably gone before we pick(if not, we had a miserable last month). Otherwise, maybe you look at another guy who can take the top off. Franklin from Oregon has that big speed. Two guys I love that would be great fits are Jaheim Bell FB/H-Back/TE/WR from FSU via South Carolina and then maybe the LBer Mondon later on. Probably guys we need, but more speed. Anyway, I've seen Twitter Doctors(I have no idea how reliable they are, but they know more than me) speculate that Watson's potential for injury is high given the past injuries he's had and then watched it play out this year. So...certainly wouldn't give up on him, but I'd look for another speedster who can take the top off. I didn't appreciate it until I saw some of the different clips, but the wind just took a couple of the balls he threw and knocked them down. But I've seen enough to know what his upside is...similar to Rodgers 1st year starting. We didn't know that Rodgers was going to be an all-time great, but we knew he was talented enough to be the guy. I hope he takes that next step next year. I don't see a gap between the two overall. I was a huge Nijman fan in 2020 just due to his attributes, but he really hasn't changed since 2021. I think the main reason Walker gets snaps over him is he's got a future in GB and I don't think the Packers will pay for Walker. I'd say the bigger "weak spot," is that reliable WRer who can take the top off. As nice as Doubs, Wicks, Reed, Heath have been, Watson and Toure were the two most likely deep threats. Toure the Packers coaches and Gutey talked up all year and he's done nothing. Watson has been a game changer. But I still think the most obvious and biggest upgrade they can make is at OT. Walker and Nijman are both lower-tier starters. Nijman still looks more impressive, but he's never been reliable. Walker just gets beat due to his athletic limitations. RG is also a hole, but it's so much easier to cover up. Josh Myers has been drastically better the last month or so. Rd1-Taliese Fuaga(OT Oregon St)-He's a great run blocker, athletic enough to be a pass blocker and Tom slides back in at LT and you stop bouncing him around. He probably starts there this year if you didn't think Bakh was coming back...or ideally trade up for Alt(that's probably a future 1st at this point unless he slides, so I don't see that happening). Then after that, IOL, a burner at WRer, 3rd-5th, RB like Blake Corum, the TE Bell or TE who can block and leak out like Spann-Ford or Wiley from TCU. Safety like Hicks or Wililams from Miami. After that, just look for some athletes who can hopefully develop. But I think you upgrade the OL, and add some more speed outside so you're not so reliant on Watson. I HOPE it's on MLF. Murphy has inserted himself into other coordinator decisions and I really hope that doesn't happen. I'll stop begging for Leonhard and just hope we can find a guy like Spags from KC(and JL is very much like that). Especially when Jaire is healthy, if Stokes comes back, Valentine, we have the cover guys, we have the pass rush, especially when one on one. As for MLF, I think he's been good 90% of the time. The Reed end arounds were annoying...the last one was just befuddling, but he's really as good as Love is. He looked terrible when we were playing terrible. I do like how he's called more pass plays on 1st down and Love has really thrived there. Last thing, is it possible Musgrave isn't the best TE from this draft? Kraft was pretty similar physically, but he plays with an edge that's fun to watch. He's physical. Love the attitude he brings...love the young talent, just a few tweaks, a little more physicality and a new DC and we could be a legit 10-11 win team next year, not just because we had a cupcake schedule.

It's strange why it's so fantastical though. Is it because WE don't want to or is it because other teams don't want him? Seems like it goes back and forth between the arguments on here. That's what I find interesting. That we shouldn't trade him because he's a valuable player...and he certainly is. There's no doubt about that. He was a nice player even in 2022. Will he be in 2025? The NTC is certainly an obstacle, but plenty of players waive their rights to a NTC or...their 10/5 which applies to Yelich...for a number of reasons. Namely, IMO, to control where they go and or get something out of it. I think an West Coast team would be more appealing. He also signed in Milwaukee and I feel like there's a perception by some that Toronto is so much colder than Milwaukee and so much further North by some people(not those on this board). I don't think a trade is fantastical. I think it's really unlikely(though I thought a Chourio extension was pretty unlikely as well). But signing Ohtani was fantastical or Soto or even trading for Cease is probably fantastical. I'd say trading Yelich is only slightly more fantastical than some of the other moves I've heard. Signing Chapman, trading for Eloy Jiminez for example or Rhys Hoskins.

I don't think they're that different. I think they have more similar than in common. That was also from a site that had him rated as the 19th best pitching prospect in all of baseball as a starting pitcher, and his scouting report sounds eerily similar comparing Hader to Misiorowski right now. You could read most of it and try and figure out which pitcher they're talking about; Hader CB These could certainly be applicable to either. This could apply to both, but Hader Changeup. This is Hader, so he had 3 pitches(again, from the outlet that thought most highly of him). Misiorowski throws harder right now and he's a righty vs Hader being a lefty. They both threw from 3/4 arm slows, they both had overpowering stuff, they both had 4 pitches they could throw, but two particularly dominant ones. They both have uncomfortable deliveries for hitters and are all knees and elbows coming at a hitter making it harder to pick up the ball. He was also compared to Hader in one pre-draft write-up saying "if his command doesn't improve, he has Josh Hader upside in relief."