BrewerFan

I don't know what you get out of that. His value is then... his base running? I'm not sure he can hit still. Strikes out a lot. His injuries have come in all different ways. I think the risk... diabetes causing more injuries or making the healing process longer may have an impact or it's just bad luck. But when he's out there, I'm playing him in CF/RF/. That's his best position and he's a better OF than Chourio.

He'll stay unhittable in AAA, but he needs to add some more strikes in the zone if he's going to get MLB hitters in bad counts. I don't love the 92-93 MPH FB relievers who rely on a Change, MLB hitters can catch up to it, but I don't think they're giving up on Yoho, I think they're trying to work with him. We should also realize how little he's pitched. Though also...this wouldn't break my heart if I'm beind honest. I think we have enough power arms, if you can get a team to actually value Yoho, do it. I just don't think you'll be able to. They saw him, they have the same scouting reports. But in the event that I'm wrong (which I remember happening...2 or 3 times in the last.... decade or so) definitely do it.

They've been desperate for a 3B with a 60 grade arm who can put up a 900 OPS and hit 30 bombs. They drafted him in the 1st Rd. They've had to settle for imperfect players at some positions and sure, they value speed and athleticism, but they're not turning down a guy who is doing what Brock Wilken is doing. He was dominating the Southern League(not exactly hitter friendly). Leading the league in multiple stats...namely the power they've been seeking. And again.... they used a 1st rd pick on him. I think everything about him is what the Brewers have been looking for at 3B. I mean, I mean, if you could build a player in a lab, they'd have Arrenado's defense in his prime and...George Brett's BA, but... he should be a 4-5 WAR player. Luke Adams, basically a mirror of him without the big time arm, I'm quite sure they'll be thrilled to put two big guys who lack the elite athleticism along with our Catcher...whichever that may be, William, Quero, Dinges and our DH(who'll probably be Yelich). That leaves plenty of room for Turang, Made/Pratt/Pena/Ortiz, whoever at the keystone, Chourio, Frelick, Lara or whoever else is in the OF to play elite defense and steal LOTS of bases...

We'll find out the story later, but this sounds weird. If it's not a ruptured patellar tendon and not something structural, it is just a weird freak injury. If it was a ruptured tendon, he should have surgery now and hope to be back for next year. If it's structural, there's a much higher chance of reinjury if you don't have surgery. So...seems odd you wouldn't get it done unless they just don't know... We'll find out when we find out(probably next spring training) but I saw enough that I think he can help us at some point next year... BUT I'm not counting on it(luckily we have Durbin who looks like a good option as a utility player. Ortiz goes down, Durbin to 2B, Turang to SS, Turang goes down, Durbin to 2B. OF, I'm sure he'd be fine out there. Or maybe Wilken just starts as a DH. But, gotta get healthy first.

What do you suppose I even argued in this post? You went into a whole month by month split like I disputed his June Numbers were worse after he gave up 5ER in 2IP like you were making this highly disputed argument! Never said his monthly splits weren't worse...given he made FOUR starts and he gave up 5 ER in 2 of them...so you're kinda conjuring this argument up on your own. I asked a rhetorical question to a.... silly hyperbolic post from you. Nobody has said he is some "mythical phenom anchoring a major league rotation," If I WAS going to argue, I'd point out a rookie pitcher was simply wild. That you'll invariably see this at some point from Misiorowski. I'd also probably point out that he's playing for THE Worst Defense in MLB overall by advanced defensive metrics (DRS, UZR, etc.)... a point you think helps him somehow. I can't fathom how. BUT... as I'm not that invested, I made none of those points. It will be fun to follow the rest of the year. If Jopal bumps the thread, he had a bad outing. If someone else, probably a good outings! It's also certainly fair to say I was wrong and this thread IS really just a 'bad start=Jopal posts,' good start -Turbo posts'...

I have to concentrate to NOT write Cameron Crow...and I still write Cameron.

I mean, there's not a single player I wouldn't trade, but the assumption here is for a Suarez type, MAYBE a Nolan Arrenado(I don't know, pick a better 3B but not an elite one with a big contract on a bad team)... Wilken- No. This is what we've been waiting for. He'll start next year in AA with Adams most likey. The "Twins" are going to be big time impact players at the Corner IF positions. So that 40M we'll have paid Hoskins? That'll cover probably 8 years of both of those players(of course, they may be traded AFTER they're hitting 30 bombs due to the guys behind them). Cameron Crow- Yeah, I guess. If you get an impact player back, fine. I like Hardin who I think will end up being a stud, Wichrowski has plus stuff. Crow is a really refined pitcher, but not Jorge Quintana- No. I'm not interested in trading away top IFA who have just a year in the system. I don't think he'll be Made or Pena, but he's 19. You want to trade away the next Tattis Jr when he's valued as a mediocre propsect? You're giving him away as a throw in and you have no real idea what he'll be. By 22, he could be a top 40 prospect. I'll bet he's a guy who ends up being traded later on after he's played stateside if he's not produced, but the risk isn't worth the reward here. Carlos Rodriguez- Sure. He's a #3/4 in a good case scenario. I like him as a depth guy...but this is also why I don't see much of a return, that's his ceiling. Tyler Black- Sure, but I don't like it. I would rather let him play more in AAA and see a show next year as a utility guy. A lot depends on how much you think of Collins, but he's a guy who walks a lot, steals bases and plays hard. But if he's still valued at a top 10 in this system, I'm alright dealing him for a rental. Blake Burke- Nope. Again, you don't trade away guys who hit the ball with that exit velocity because you happen to have other players at the same position. Boeve, Black, Crow, Rodriguez(AAA or Manuel) Areinamo...there are others you may want to include, but...not young premium talent that we're not sure of. The Brewers may have seen enough of Quinatana and decided he's just WAY too far behind other Shortstops, I can't know that, but as a rule, I'd rather sell lower on those guys than miss one or two who break out. Also, who are we looking at? We don't need much. A guy like Suarez is what we need. I don't think it'll take blue chip guys to get him. The way Durbin is playing, I'd keep him at 3B and as we keep hitting the ball well...and we have so many pitchers, I like this team. Lets take our shot this year without losing a guy like Burke who could be a .300 hitter, 20 HRs and a plus defender. Yeah, the problem though, again, is that's how YOU end up making one of those, "how did you make THAT trade-type trades. We gave him 1.7M, we obviously thought highly of him, he's a really talented young SS and he has little value. If you want to value him as a top 5-6 in our system, fine. But I'm risk adverse with guys with that type of talent in the lower levels.

You really think he's the most promising? Hardin is in AA now, Wichrowski...a couple of guys with big fastballs and at least one more dominant pitch. I think he's got maybe the highest floor, but...I don't know about ceiling. But I would definitely trade Boeve before Wilken. I wouldn't touch Wilken. I'm looking forward to getting a combined .230/.370/.470 line out of Adams and Wilken combined and 60 HRs., I can't even imagine why you'd want to trade Wilken. It's not like he's Mitchell and injury prone, two fluke injuries...that's it. And he's in AA, leading the league in Walks(or behind Adams), SLG, OPS...HRs. We FINALLY get the guy YOU have wanted(this is to Harold) and now it's...ship him out for Suarez! Maybe in 1 year, 2, 3 when Pratt, Bitonti, Pena, Made all make it up, we can make a move, but...there's no reason to do it now.

Ok...thanks. So that's likely a season ending injury, but not something that would be an issue into the start of next year like an ACL (unless he ruptured the patellar tendon, but that's...rare from what I understand, but I don't have an MD in front of my name).

Especially if a guy walks a lot, it's like a hidden double 40 times a year. And perhaps in 2 years when we have Luke Adams at 1B, Wilken playing 3B, Pratt/Ortiz at SS, Contreras at C, Chourio with Made, Pena, Payne on the way...you'll find the ideal balance of both. The guys who are incredibly patient(the clones, Adams and Wilken) and should carry high .300 OBPs, the power hitters, 4 or 5 guys who could slug .500. BTW, haven't heard how Wilken and Adams are going health wise. Wilken's seemed ominous, but not necessarily an ACL. Adams seemed like an injury that could be 3 months or 7 days. Hoping for the later. They're both close the way they're dominating the Southern League(though the BA fans will hate them).

This is just...SO huge for this system. To have a guy in AA who would very possibly(probably) be in a big league BP by now in Childers and then have Bryant and I've watched Manfredi the most and he's not Hader, but it's NOT hard to see him taking on that early Hader type role at some point in the future. Oh, and they have Yoho at AAA among other pitchers and numerous others who are still starting and may move to the pen. Just constantly replenishing the pen and it almost reminds you of the Ron Wolf Packers where they were constantly trying to improve the bottom of the roster. A guy like Bryant or Childres in the future for Ty Alexander or whoever. Megill is a pending FA in 2 years(maybe 3) so possibly a trade candidate and we have Uribe who looks like a future closer and all these arms who look like they could just slot into his spot or the taxi squad. Just more depth and more weapons.

So... are you saying they'll go over-slot for a HS arm? I'm kidding, but that has been one of the things I've wanted them to do in recent years. Cam Camminiti, Brecht, Mayfield, Sloan last year...and I liked Gage Jump...but MUCH less than the prep arms. '23 I liked Waldrep...REALLY liked White(though...that would have cost you Pratt most likely or a couple of the picks in Rd 11-20 at LEAST) and then Soto. But I'm primarily looking at just pure talent and hoping the Brewers can develop them. I'm sure if there was an arm the Brewers loved, they'd take him, but their strategy of finding these pitchers who just need to tweak a couple things to unlock levels has been incredible to watch...and not that it needs to be said, but my drafts would look awful compared to the Brewers. That's also why I kinda chuckle when I see the outrage at a pick like Payne and then he signs for more than 75%. Like...I get it, some of you have your own opinions, you actually watch enough of these guys like I do with Football, but most people are just going to MLB Pipeline's rankings to evaluate the pick and complain. I mean, at SOME point we should just... almost blindly trust this front office, no?

You don't think it juuust might lie somewhere in the middle? He's a very good pitcher, a high end #3 who could be a #2 and he's struggled a bit. He had a 2.86 ERA coming in and had shut down the Astsros and Tigers in his two prior starts before the two you cited. I'm sure he'll have to adjust...and his stuff is plenty good that I have no doubt he will, but I think perhaps you're exaggerating how good anyone has suggested he was. I MIGHT say Paul Skenes is a "mythical phenom anchoring a major Legue rotation," Nobody said that about Smith. But I guess I was wrong, this really is just a 'he had a bad start, I'm right,' thread vs a 'he had a good start, I'm right' thread.

They just made a mistake. I don't believe he wasn't going to figure it out with the Brewers. We have how many pitchers who've developed a Change or cutter into their career? Saying he wouldn't have is kinda like saying Freddy Peralta never would have become the pitcher he is as he MAINLY just threw FBs early on. The Brewers just blew this one and that's alright. Henderson, Patrick, Henderson...it's a bit costly(Yophery, #33 and an interesting reliever) but... I think this is grossly understating how hard it is to find starting pitchers. Perhaps because we've been spoiled, but he's playing for a terrible team with poor defense and he's been a #2/#3. He's nowhere near Santana obviously(just as I don't think Pratt will end up Gunnar Henderson from the right side), HOWEVER... he's a guy you can reasonably count on giving you 5-6 innings right now and I think he'll cement that further as he progresses, but if you had him, you also wouldn't need Priester. We gave up a LOT in that trade. The 33rd pick and the bonus pool money that comes with it was enough. What's more, I'd say having those assets, Mis, Henderson, Smith, Patrick as 4 reliable starters... does it "dramatically" alter the long-term outlook? I don't know, that's kinda vague, but it was a significant misstep. In another 2 years, we may have Tyson Hardin, Letson, KC Hunt...Wichrowski, Meccage, Does the #33rd pick, Yophery Rodriguez and a reliever get us Suraez? It might...Or you could have both. That works also. You need 7 or 8 pitchers. Who'd have thought we'd lose probably the #2 and #3 pitchers in our rotation(projecting Cortes and Woodruff as the 2/3 in some manner, even if Woodruff is "only" touching 94-95) and we'd be sending Logan Henderson down after 4 starts with a 1.77 ERA and 3 wins(not that the stat is important, but 4-0 in games he started). ***Again, I think the MORE important thing is to recognize the embarrassment of riches the Brewers have with regard to young arms (which isn't even as impressive as the young bats). And if this and the Reese Olson trades end up being the two worst moves the Brewers make over...~5 years, I'm feeling pretty good moving forward. As for the last part in bold; -I think you can look at how the Dodgers have done things. They seem to make more prospect for prospect trades than anyone, presumably due to 40-man issues since they sign...like... literally 6-8 Cy Young caliber pitchers and many get hurt.

Man, how a few weeks can change things! The FOUR best rookie starters(arguably) with Mis. What it tells me is that...despite making a mistake, the Brewers are one of, if not the best teams at finding Starting Pitching that's not a gimme like Skenes and turning them into qualify MLB starters. Why are we always so eager to close threads? This is about Shane Smith. I don't see anything wrong with tracking how the season plays out. It's not like there are 50 new topics that are just red hot and this is burying others.

If he's playing with an injury or not, it's OBVIOUS he's still a VERY good season. Exit Velo, his hard hit rate. xBA of .276, xSLG of .503... If he's playing through injury, he's still hitting the ball hard and having poor luck. Not wanting to take on that contract... fine, that makes plenty of sense. Mocking the idea like he's not still an exceptional player is silly. A negative war for 80 games...if he's hitting the ball harder than he has, squaring up more than he has... all of the advanced analytics say he's the same player he was in his best years... he's probably still a very good player. I wouldn't be surprised to see a LA or NYM type team trade for him... If the Pirates would eat some of that money on the backend... I could EASILY be convinced to trade for him if the prospects were reasonable. We'll see at the end of the season as we know this won't happen, but I'd be shocked if we get to the end of the season and Collins has been anywhere near as productive as Reynolds has the rest of the way.

It has to be a specific plan for him. I think having him, Edge and Simmons on the field on 3rd downs could be a huge advantage. Simmons... warts and all, but he can get in throwing lanes. Cooper is the more obvious blitzer, but Walker is good in this area as well. I didn't really see a noticeable improvement in Walker last year(I'm not arguing) but we've seen so many flashes from him, it makes a lot of sense they think they can utilize him better in Hafley's system. They also seem high on Simmons. This tells me they're plan for their off-ball LBs is to just simplify the game, give them a very specific responsibility and let them go play freely. That's just my guess. But you're right, Walker was not a 2-gap LBer. McDuffie is the only guy on this team who was best suited to play in a 3-4.

His Fathers position was there was zero guaranteed money in the deal. He took less to play in Baltimore with a team that will make him look better, elite safety play, a good front...everything, so I'm sure he had offers that were higher("I'm sure"=I believe the reports). But if the Packers really wanted him to take a contract with no Guaranteed money? At this point in his career, given all he's done? It's done, but it seems like they were close and each side was very stubborn despite purportedly wanting to make it work. Guess we monitor Asante Samuel, maybe Rasul (he seems like he wants to sign here). Samuel is the upside play, Douglas is the reliable vet. Douglas feels like an obvious choice since you KNOW you're going to be playing a lot of cover 2/3 zone again and that's where he's at his best.

Yeah, this is a...crappy way to look at things, but...does make me feel better! It's unfair to hope the guy fails because we blew this one, but it'd be tougher if he went and won a Cy Young.

Maybe in the NFL, but MLB draft? Just stack your system with the best talent you can and...they'll figure it out. If we have a "problem" with too many MIFers who can hit and run...we'll worry about that in 2-3-4 years when it becomes a problem. Imagine passing on... Mike Trout because you have a great young set of OFers coming up? I agree, if you like Cunningham that much, take him.

Actually, you started out by saying, "I’m sure it is now table stakes for MLB teams to offer their premier pre-arbitration eligible players contract extensions," which infers you're guessing(which...of coure you are as we have no idea) and NOW you're just stating it as a fact. Either way, I'm talking about the Brewers doing it early. Now with Chourio, I said I thought they'd do it almost immediately when the MLB season started...I didn't think it'd come before the season started, but do the Dodgers do it? The Yankees? A lot of these teams either don't or they wait until a player has established themselves as elite. We made no offer to Burnes, Woodruff, Adames, Contreras...according to all of them. SOME teams do it. The Braves certainly do. Cleveland from time to time. Beyond that, VERY few teams would do this a few months in to team control. I would personally be more aggressive and far exceed the Peralta, Ashby offers as... he's just such a unique talent...

So eliminate any motivation he has to sign a long term-contract? No, of course you don't do this. And again, people are really jumping the gun with how inevitable that injury is. I remember the same being said about Hader. Randy Johnson is probably a good comp for a young Mis. For the Brewers, overall, they've been pretty damn good about preventing TJ by not abusing their starters. Also, just gonna leave this here. This doesn't even touch on his last start where Pitching Ninja had some funny posts about Misiorowski. I do suspect after a bad outing people will be far less eager, But that's the only assumption we should make. He's not going to keep up this pace.

Suarez has a OPS near 900 and is on pace for a 5 WAR season McMahon has been hot as of late with an OPS of ~840 in the month and he's been hitting very well on the road. I'm not sure why that's a crazy position. You're comparing a Middle of the Order Bat, a great defensive, but average offensive 3B(who needs to adjust to playing outside Colorado) with one of the worst hitters in the game this year. Of course, I don't know what "likeable" means in this context. KC Hunt or...whoever. But they'd both be able to help quite a bit.

I get that...and to be fair, it'd be much riskier than Peralta or Ashby. Both were signed when they were really iffy about either starting. Peralta has been a great deal, Ashby not a very good one(still has time). You'd be almost certainly be taking a much bigger risk here... so that instinct may be correct. It'll depend on Misiorowski's asking price. We'll likely never hear unless it happens. Skenes almost certainly won't sign because he got...what, 10M in a signing bonus? That's 5M take home Quite a bit different when you get ~2.3 and take home a little over 1M...the risk could either make it a great deal or it could make it a drag on the payroll. I'm betting on that arm, that movement and the Brewers ability to handle pitchers(and get them to unlock that pitch that improves their whole repertoire. A Change he can throw in the mid 80s in his case could make everything else look that much better...when he comes back to reality). In fact, if it were up to me, I'd sign just about every pitching scout, coach and everyone in the front office to about 2X the average salary and a looong term contract! But we won't do that, so we'll focus on the actual players. For the time being, I'll just appreciate having him for 5-6 more years and then dread the "it's time to trade Mis," but that's 2030's problem I guess!

Gasser is a soft tossing lefty. But sure, you should probably assume a pitcher will have a TJ. The Brewers seem as though they've been better than just about anyone else at keeping their young arms healthy and acclimating them to the stresses and rigors of pitching than anyone, but sure. How long do you wait and see though? Paul Skenes is probably already going to be 200M+ to extend. There's a risk with every pitcher, every position. This is definitely where I am as well. As you said, Hiura would be costing us money right now. Hardly devastating...but it'd hurt. Others who I'd have done this for, Hader, Williams, Contreras, there's nothing saying you can't trade them still at some point...and I'd assume we offered at least Hader. Turang...might be the only guy I'd sign right now. Maybe Frelick, I love the guy and how he plays, but he's a corner OFer with little power so it'd really have to be like 7/35 TO of 10M? Unlikely he's going to take that deal. You can always say it's not smart for the player...but look at Hiura. You can talk about the risk to the team...but look at what FA's cost. Paul Skenes(I don't think Mis is Paul Skenes, but...it's hard to find another young pitcher as a comp)...he'll likely get 400M? That's why you get a discount. You guarantee money and they sacrifice two years of service time. No way...they pay him more than a Peralta like deal? I'd almost guarantee they'd pay several times more than what Peralta got RIGHT NOW. Peralta was GTD 15.5M. You really think there's no way the Brewers would start the negotiations higher than that range? Ashby signed a "Peralta like" deal...he got more, but that's almost insulting and kinda a silly point to start. I was thinking you wait until after the season when he's experienced some ups and downs and you talk about a 6-year 60M extension with 2TOs and incentives in there. There is risk to injury... and there's risk to inaction. The risk to injury is being really exaggerated here. He has a TJ, he misses a year...like most pitchers and he's back. And that's IF it happens before he's ~31/32.