Who will win the 2012 NL MVP?

[stoutdude04]

I agree with the person who said they were unbiased. Last year Braun and Kemp were at least close(if I remember correctly). This year I feel like Brauns stat line is better then the rest.

 

Braun's offensively stat line is better but Posey isnt far off and he is a catcher. He is OPS is way better than any other catcher just like Braun is compared to other LF in the NL. Both are almost .90 points higher than other NL players at their position. That is impressive. If Matt Holliday gets any votes over Braun it is a joke

 

Yea, I did take a look at the stats. Brauns stats are still better. I do realize that Posey hasn't had nearly as many ABs. I just see it differently then the situation last year.

[topper09er]

 

I should stress that it only takes a few guys to have this attitude to spoil Braun's chances. I'm not saying that a 75% of the voters will take this path - but it will be enough to spoil any chance Ryan has of winning.

 

It only took 2 voters in 1999 that refused to vote for pitchers for the MVP and left Pedro completely off their ballots for Pudge to win. Pedro had the most first place votes but was only on 26 of the 28 ballots

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1999/11/18/almvp_voting/

 

Nice too see a few ex Brewers on the bottom with 1 point each, Jaha and Surhoff

[markedman5]

Braun isn't going to win

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8375277/buster-posey-andrew-mccutchen-ryan-braun-wild-national-league-mvp-race-mlb

[topper09er]

"A positive drug test from last October that was later overturned, because of what a since-fired arbitrator ruled to be an "invalid" collection of his urine sample."

 

invalid in quotes, nice Jayson Stark, who later states:

 

"we have a frustratingly incomplete set of facts to help us understand exactly why he tested positive and why his suspension was overturned."

 

So I guess we should assume everything was "invalid" even though we really have no facts

[gregmag]

First of all, I personally think that, as of right now, Posey should win. Putting up the numbers he has as a catcher is remarkable. Although I don't think the MVP has to come from a winner, I think Posey looks to have made a remarkable contribution to the success of his team, which has happened to mean a likely pennant.

 

But I think the award is going to be illegitimate, and I'm gearing up for a personal mental boycott. The anti-Braun bias is unjustified and petty. These are the same writers who cheered on the steroid era uncritically -- who actually share complicity for PEDs' denigration of the sport -- and now they want to cover their moral butts by getting righteously indignant over an alleged violation for which there is no support. They want to get righteous about justice? How about due process, then? Anyone who leaves Braun off his ballot, or downgrades Braun because of the invalid test, is a morally and intellectually vacuous fraud.

[fondybrewfan]

I admit to having to look up "vacuous"

 

I have prepared myself for Braun never winning an MVP award again because of what happened. Just frustrating; for someone outside of Brewerfandom I guess I can understand the hesitation. If Braun would just out with the "full story" as he calls it he might have a change for awards again. As it stands now he just isn't going to win anything anytime soon (Unless he is jsut blatantly the best player; thats not really the case in 2012)

[Paul77]

"A positive drug test from last October that was later overturned, because of what a since-fired arbitrator ruled to be an "invalid" collection of his urine sample."

 

invalid in quotes, nice Jayson Stark, who later states:

 

"we have a frustratingly incomplete set of facts to help us understand exactly why he tested positive and why his suspension was overturned."

 

So I guess we should assume everything was "invalid" even though we really have no facts

 

I might have read the article in a different way. I felt Stark was making the case FOR Braun to win, but explaining why he won't, fair or not.

 

More quotes from that same article:

 

The easy way out is to say, "The bum's a cheater, so nobody should ever honor him for anything ever again." And you can bet your autographed picture of Shyam Das there are going to be voters who think that way.

 

I'm just not one of them.

 

Let's think this through, as slowly, logically and rationally as possible. Try it, OK? You can do it.First off, this man was judged, by the proper legal authorities, to be not guilty. That's supposed to matter in the America I grew up in.

 

Now seriously, given all that, is there really enough basis for rational voters to completely dismiss this man's candidacy? There shouldn't be. But good luck on that.

 

We're supposed to be judging how his season fits into the MVP discussion in 2012. And (A) he wasn't suspended, and (B) given the scrutiny he's been under, you could make a case that his fabulous 2012 season proves he never "cheated" himself to greatness in the first place. Couldn't you?

 

I have no opinion at all of Jason Stark one way or the other, but I didn't get any anti -Braun bias, at least in that article.

[jerichoholicninja]

I felt that whole article was pointing out the ridiculous reasons voters won't vote for Braun but Stark would.

[MNBrew]

I felt that whole article was pointing out the ridiculous reasons voters won't vote for Braun but Stark would.

 

I took it the same way. Braun's performance more than justifies it and the increases in many of his #'s w/o Prince behind him and in spite of the positive test pressures & backlash are factors that should matter hugely, but Stark points out that many voters will vote on sentiment and shallow whim rather than legitimate on-field reasoning.

[owbc]

I'm guessing they don't publish the voter rolls like they do in college sports?

 

It would be nice to be able to hold some of these writers accountable--that is the ones that leave Braun completely off their ballots. I bet there would be less of that if people knew their votes would be scrutinized.

 

It's out of our control and at least at this point he probably doesn't deserve the award anyway. But if it was clear that he should win, then I would be upset.

[RockCoCougars]

Braun has had a better season than Posey, and it's not really that close. You don't give the edge to Posey solely because he is a catcher... he is by no stretch a great defensive catcher. All that said, Braun has absolutely no chance of winning.

[GoToHelfaer]

Unfortunately baseball writers are judge and jury. It's such a stupid premise but Braun is a villain in some of their eyes and that minority can keep him from winning awards for the foreseeable future. It's a shame.

[Invader3K]

Bill Michaels made the interesting point yesterday that Braun's power numbers are actually up from last year, and without Fielder behind him in the lineup to boot.

[jjfanec]

Braun may have put to rest two questions in some people's mind - Did he use PEDs and is "protection" in the batting order a real thing

[Patrick425]

Well, I hope that any writer that discloses that they did not give Braun a vote will be flooded with angry emails from Brewer fans (or all reasonable baseball fans). It's completely ridiculous. If things had happened like they were suppose to happen, no one would have known about Braun's failed test. How do any of the writer's know that Posey or McCutchen have not failed drug tests?

 

If you believe Braun is guilty, then you have to suspect everyone. How do you fail one test and pass all the others and continue to put up great numbers? If he's guilty then there surely are some holes in MLB's drug testing procedures.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Sad that the same media voters who would have voted for Barry Bonds and his exploding helmet size for a couple MVP's and Clemens for Cy Youngs late in their careers now will refuse to vote for a guy who hasn't ever been suspended for PED use because of a media leak and claim to be protecting the "integrity of the game".

 

Numbers alone, Braun's the MVP - the only real competition is McCutcheon and it isn't close unless the Pirates would make the playoffs. Posey's had a great season, but if I remember correctly he's missed a good chunk of time earlier this year.

[StearnsFTW]

Braun may have put to rest two questions in some people's mind - Did he use PEDs and is "protection" in the batting order a real thing

 

 

As if there wasn't enough evidence that that's a fairy tale already.

 

I think he should win. I think there's no chance he will win.

[1992casey]

If Braun would just out with the "full story" as he calls it he might have a change for awards again.

 

I think it was established that confidentiality rules could cause Ryan to face a fine or suspension if he said much more than he already has.

[Funketown]

Well, hopefully Braun will get a boost from the crowd that thinks this performance is so much more impressive because he has a complete slouch hitting behind him. That, or they'll say Braun has always had great protection so we can't really know if he's that good.

 

Voters have gotten better about this stuff, but we're still only a few years away from Justin Morneau winning an MVP.

[brewmann04]

Braun should win the Media won't let it happen.

[The stache]

Writers everywhere are quick to point out that Ryan Braun won't win the MVP because of the PED association, even though he won his appeal (he got off on a technicality!). Ok then, so why are we hearing nothing about how Posey benefited from having Melky Cabrera, who WAS suspended by MLB for PED, batting right in front of him in the lineup?

 

How many extra RBI did Posey get having steroid boy in front of him? How many extra wins did the Giants get because of him?

 

Where are these stories?

[torts]

since 8/15 game buster has hit .350/.419/.977, 19 RBIs with the team going 21-10

[torts]

braun, during the same timeframe has hit .359/.424/1.127 with 27 RBI's and his team going 24-8

[jjfanec]

You cannot punish Buster for his teammate's PED use. Buster has been incredible for a catcher. Now I think Braun would win if it wasnt for two stupid things writers will look at - the overturned test and the Brewers potentially not making the playoffs. Poor reasons but typical

[HiAndTight]

You cannot punish Buster for his teammate's PED use. Buster has been incredible for a catcher. Now I think Braun would win if it wasnt for two stupid things writers will look at - the overturned test and the Brewers potentially not making the playoffs. Poor reasons but typical

 

 

 

Meh, I think being in the race right down to the end is pretty much as good as actually being in the playoffs. It's not like Matt Kemp last year who should have won it, but the Dodgers where further out of the playoff picture.

 

IF the Brewers finish with 86 wins for example which is gonna be really tough, I don't think that'll play much of a role.

 

The PED thing will be far bigger.

 

Especially if...who was it, Law or Olney...one of the usual suspects said that he estimates 35 pct of writers won't even place him on their top 10 ballot. Which is asinine.