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R.A. Dickey


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It has been mentioned that they are looking for catcher and outfield help which the Brewers could offer. I guess I don't know the value of a guy like Dickey who is a fairly old journeyman pitcher but had a Cy Young type season last year.
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Is Maldonado + Gindl too much? I know Maldonado seems like a fair amount for a 37-year-old coming off a career year, but getting a solid #3 for $5 million is pretty valuable and would let the Brewers fill their rotation with money left over to spend on other starters/pieces. Age is not as big of a concern since he is a knuckleballer.

 

I feel like the Brewers can be competitive next year with passable pitching, and given the emergence of Lucroy I wouldn't be too upset with that trade. Assuming they couldn't get a better return for Maldonado (whose value is probably at a peak right now).

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I don't think Gindl has a whole lot of value after last year and I think Mets are looking more centerfield. Maybe Schafer/Maldonado and another pitcher like Helwig or even Gomez instead of Schafer but again I don't know how other teams perceive Dickey. There are probably teams that wouldn't give much but likely a couple willing to overpay for a Cy Young pitcher.
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I don't think Gindl has a whole lot of value after last year and I think Mets are looking more centerfield. Maybe Schafer/Maldonado and another pitcher like Helwig or even Gomez instead of Schafer but again I don't know how other teams perceive Dickey. There are probably teams that wouldn't give much but likely a couple willing to overpay for a Cy Young pitcher.

 

 

Waay too much for Dickey. Schafer straight up maybe. Schafer has more value than Maldy IMO, but the two of them together would be outright robbery for the Mets.

 

I would like Dickey on the Crew...but not for that price.

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I think the Mets get a lot more for Dickey than Maldonado.

 

The Angels gave up a lot more for two months of Greinke. Same with Tigers for Sanchez. Plus, Dickey is cheap, and if you don't sign him to an extension, you can get the draft pick (assuming he continues to pitch well).

 

Of course, there's your perception of what Dickey will do in 2013. And your perception of Maldonado. Is he even a full time player? Is six years of a part time player enough for one year of a Cy Young type pitcher?

 

I just think the Mets can get more.

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I wonder if the Mets would give up Dickey for Fiers, Schafer and Maldonado. I view all 3 of those guys as spare parts but they could be solid contributors on a pathetic Mets club.

 

The Mets would probably try to do another Beltran esque deal and get the best prospect possible which would leave us out of the running. It's too bad though because the Brewers could compliment a Dickey trade with a Dempster or Jackson signing.

 

Gallardo, Dickey, Dempster, Peralta, Rogers would be a very interesting rotation.

@WiscoSportsNut
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I think the Mets get a lot more for Dickey than Maldonado.

 

The Angels gave up a lot more for two months of Greinke. Same with Tigers for Sanchez. Plus, Dickey is cheap, and if you don't sign him to an extension, you can get the draft pick (assuming he continues to pitch well).

 

Of course, there's your perception of what Dickey will do in 2013. And your perception of Maldonado. Is he even a full time player? Is six years of a part time player enough for one year of a Cy Young type pitcher?

 

I just think the Mets can get more.

Hard to compare a guy who is going to turn what, 39?, next year and who has had such a flukey career to Greinke (not that Greinke is the epitome of consistency). It would be foolish to expect a Cy Young performance in 2013, and I doubt any team does. But you are probably right. Then again, I may be overvaluing Maldonado but it seems like he might have the potential to be a starting catcher, which is incredibly valuable just by itself.

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I think the Mets get a lot more for Dickey than Maldonado.

 

The Angels gave up a lot more for two months of Greinke. Same with Tigers for Sanchez. Plus, Dickey is cheap, and if you don't sign him to an extension, you can get the draft pick (assuming he continues to pitch well).

 

Of course, there's your perception of what Dickey will do in 2013. And your perception of Maldonado. Is he even a full time player? Is six years of a part time player enough for one year of a Cy Young type pitcher?

 

I just think the Mets can get more.

Hard to compare a guy who is going to turn what, 39?, next year and who has had such a flukey career to Greinke (not that Greinke is the epitome of consistency). It would be foolish to expect a Cy Young performance in 2013, and I doubt any team does. But you are probably right. Then again, I may be overvaluing Maldonado but it seems like he might have the potential to be a starting catcher, which is incredibly valuable just by itself.

I think it's easy to undervalue Dickey. I didn't realize how good he's been the last three years until I actually looked at his stats:

 

2010-12: 616 2/3 innings, 2.95 ERA, .663 opponents’ OPS.

 

That's pretty awesome. And I agree, I don't think anyone is going to expect him to repeat 2012. But even if he pitches like he did in 2010-11, someone's getting a pretty good pitcher. Even at his age.

 

The thing about Dickey that's interesting is his age - he is 38 (just turned it two months ago). He's never had the big payday. In 2011 it was the first year he'd made more than minimum. So he WANTS the extension now. He knows this isn't going to last too long. So whomever gets him is going to probably get a chance to lock him up for an extra couple of years at a much lower rate than guys like Greinke and Sanchez. Yes, it's a risk at his age. But you offer him a two year extension at $10-12 million a year, you could have a good pitcher at a reasonable price. At the worst, if you don't sign him to an extension, you get a very good pitcher for $5 million for one year. That's worth a lot, especially for a team looking to content and also looking to maintain financial flexibility.

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One thing to keep in mind about Dickey r.e. his age. He's a knuckleballer, not someone relying on a 97 MPH fastball. Much less fatigue on the arm. Phil Niekro went 21-20 (I'm always stunned whenever I see that, 20 wins AND 20 losses in the SAME season) when he was 40. He won 16 with an ERA of just over 4 at age 46.
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I wouldn't trade both Schafer and Maldanado.

 

I would go Maldanado and a Bucci or Bradley (or someone along those lines that the Brewers and Mets could agree upon). I would entertain an extension for Dickey, bumping the 2013 salary and tacking on a 2014 year - lets say $16M. If he wanted more, I would just let it ride and qualify offer if he is worth $14M.

 

I wouldn't then go out and sign another pitcher, as this is my signing.

 

Gallardo

Dickey

Estrada

Fiers

Peralta

Rogers

Narveson

 

With Thornburg, Hellwig, Stinson as possible backups.

 

Then if we are in it, we have the funds and prospects available for a trade as needed.

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Then if we are in it, we have the funds and prospects available for a trade as needed.

 

:rolleyes

 

Ever since I've found Brewerfan the discussion has been how terrible the organization has been developing pitching. Now we finally have enough young pitching that we can legitimately field a homegrown rotation and not only that, but through numbers alone we should be able to field an excellent top of the rotation. Some prospects will fail, some will be exactly what we thought they would be, and some will overachieve, but we have enough young pitching we should have a good rotation with quality depth behind it for years, all it will require is some patience on our and the organization's part to let the players grow into their roles, whatever they may be.

 

After struggling so hard to get to this point I still shocked even though I shouldn't be that people are suggesting flipping 6+ years of "unproven" players for short term solutions yet again. Did trading for Sabathia light a fire that's never going to go out? We got better last year after dumping Wolf and recycling Greinke, it should have been a nice lesson in "what's possible" if we're open to the possibility of using players that don't exist on fantsy baseball rosters.

 

Winning isn't about "veteraness", it's about relative talent, and the Brewers need to keep as much talent stockpiled as possible. I'm certainly not opposed to trading young excess talent here and there but I'm fiercely opposed to trading for short term solutions of any kind, especially on the pitching front where it doesn't look like we'll be needing much help. There's a difference between plugging/fixing holes and patching them, and until recently all we've been doing as a franchise since this first wave arrived has been plugging holes in the dyke with our fingers. We have legitimate chance to get on top of the organization's pitching issues for the first time in my lifetime, we have enough assets to repair the wall and stop the leaks for an extended period of time.

 

Let's have the patience to play this out with the assets we have on hand.

"You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation."

- Plato

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."

- Plato

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Dickey should be a mid season target where you won't have to give up as much as you would now. I would be fine if it was Schafer and a low level prospect for Dickey but I don't believe that will get it done at all.

 

It looks like the Rays are now open to trading some of their young pitching but the Brewers don't have the pieces they would want in return. Morris and Davis are probably the only two that would interest the Rays but they are not enough to get anyone of note. The Brewers should be looking to add from the Rays but the pieces just don't fit for a trade at this time.

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:rolleyes

 

 

 

Not all trades are for short term players and not all trades are for negligible production increases. But way to assume what I may be referring to.

 

So here is a little icon back for you. That makes my argument that much stronger. :rolleyes

 

What if it is June, we are in it and both Segura and Bianchi are injured or are just not producing. Are you going to stay status quo or find a player available and trade for them.

 

And yes, I would do that CC Sabathia trade all over again if you guarantee me that type of production.

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What if it is June, we are in it and both Segura and Bianchi are injured or are just not producing. Are you going to stay status quo or find a player available and trade for them.

 

I hate leading statements like this. Everything has a price, and everything has a value. If, in your scenario, someone is giving a player away in a salary dump (a la K-Rod in 2011), then of course you make the deal if you can handle the contract. If the best SS on the market is horrible and it would cost us Peralta, then no chance I make the deal. Most likely in that case, if teams are trying to bend you over in a trade, you will be able to find a Cody Ransom-type player floating around that won't cost you your team's future.

 

Not all trades are for short term players and not all trades are for negligible production increases.

 

TC07 has almost 7,000 posts, many of which have explained his team-building methodology. If you've read any of them, I'm sure you realize that he understands that not all trades are for short-term players. However, this thread is contemplating trading several of our better prospects for one year of R.A. Dickey, and most mid-season trades (which you seemed to imply in the line he quoted) are for three-month rentals. Both of those moves certainly imply trading for a "short-term player."

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

 

~Bill Walsh

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Count me in the group that would do the CC Sabathia trade 100/100 times.

 

What did we really give up? A guy without a position with a career sub .700 OPS? A LFer with no power? A reliever who still hasn't gotten out of AA and a former 1st round bust with an ERA near 6.00 in the pros?

 

Ya I can see why no one would ever want to make a trade like that again. :rolleyes

@WiscoSportsNut
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Count me in the group that would do the CC Sabathia trade 100/100 times.

 

What did we really give up? A guy without a position with a career sub .700 OPS? A LFer with no power? A reliever who still hasn't gotten out of AA and a former 1st round bust with an ERA near 6.00 in the pros?

 

Ya I can see why no one would ever want to make a trade like that again. :rolleyes

That's not the counterargument, it's who else the team could've traded for to have for longer than less-than-half a season. I respect anyone's stance that would still make the CC trade, but at least recognize the alternative being argued instead of playing 20/20 hindsight with prospects.

Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate
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Count me in the group that would do the CC Sabathia trade 100/100 times.

 

What did we really give up? A guy without a position with a career sub .700 OPS? A LFer with no power? A reliever who still hasn't gotten out of AA and a former 1st round bust with an ERA near 6.00 in the pros?

 

Ya I can see why no one would ever want to make a trade like that again. :rolleyes

That's not the counterargument, it's who else the team could've traded for to have for longer than less-than-half a season. I respect anyone's stance that would still make the CC trade, but at least recognize the alternative being argued instead of playing 20/20 hindsight with prospects.

 

I can see your point however if you're gonna bash any move then atleast have the common courtesy to suggest who we should have targeted instead of suggesting some mythical player is just gonna fall out of the sky for the same prospects we offered up. The only other starting pitcher of relevance who was traded at that deadline was Rich Harden. Are you or TC07 suggesting that we should have gone that route or done nothing instead?

@WiscoSportsNut
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Ugh. Actually, right now I'm suggesting we move on & forget this even got mentioned in this thread. This discussion has been had so many times I've lost count. In short, no, not Harden (although the Cubs did get a 1.77 ERA out of him for their share of him in '08).
Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate
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Just won the NL Cy Young. Up goes the price if we are interested.

 

I don't think the fact that a player wins or doesn't win an award really affects trade value much, if at all. The player's stats, mechanics, make-up, age, contract, etc. are all unaffected by some arbitrary award voted on by writers.

This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.
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