Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[UpandIn]

Well...overall, the good news;

1-We'll get a new DC in 2023 Edit-I meant DC, not GM. 
2-We'll get a top 10-15 pick most likely. Someone more likely to be a difference maker in year 1.
3-Rodgers is almost certainly coming back....that may not belong in this group based on his current play, but I still believe it's positive. 
4-We drafted what LOOKS like 3 very good young WRers in Watson, Doubs and Toure. We should be in position to get a franchise LT or another immediate impact WRer next year in the 1st round. 
5-Quay, Wyatt, Tom, Enagbare...they're all very nice rookies and should get better(along with the aforementioned rookies). 
6-The price on Jenkins extension is dropping significantly. 

The Bad
-Salary cap
-Still no clue if Jordan Love is good.
-Watching this team is just painful. Not painful in the same way it's been the last few years painful...like when you're getting a filling and the Dentist hits a nerve and you DON'T expect it, it's more like...knowing your tooth and nerves aren't numbed and having to KNOW that sharp pain is coming. 
-This team has enough young talent combined with veteran talent that there is reason to believe they could turn it around without TOO many moves this off-season.

-JOE BARRY WILL NOT BE BACK IN GREEN BAY. 

The last one is absolutely not "THEE" problem. In fact, with literally any other Packers led offense, this defense would be good enough to get the Packers to 10+ wins. Still, a good defensive coordinator puts his players in positions to look their best.
The least you can expect a Defensive coordinator to do is has success as long as you have talent. 

This offense is shite, particularly with the injury issues. This defense is elite 1-18, starters and depth. They play 2 schemes. Press man or cover 4 where they drop the safeties. nothing interesting. Nothing unique. Nothing unexpected(just the opposite). 
 

2023 could be better...at least I hope it is, because a couple years are gonna be rough...particularly if Rodgers leaves and we run out the clock on Love. 

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I think their first pick this year needs to be a QB, WR, or maybe a OL.

QB - if they feel like it is the next great thing.

or OL/WR - Regardless of who is under center we need serious help at WR and could use OL help. If we end up going with Love we will never know how good he is with a zero experience QB throwing to this trash heap…and the OL would do no favors.

Rodgers isn’t playing amazing, but I don’t think any QB in the league would be doing much better with the coaches, WRs, and OL we have. It is a wreck.

I agree...but not just to extend the "window" for Rodgers. Do not draft a WRer to put an end to the "The Packers haven't used a 1st on a WRer in...."

If I had 5 picks in the 1st round and had a bad team...in a deep OL class, I'd be fine taking 5 OL. And if Bakhtiari comes back next year and his knee is stronger and he can play a full season, WONDERFUL. Then we'll have too much OL depth...which will mean barely enough for us. 
Parris Johnson is a long, athletic OT. 
-He's smart and seems like a genuinely good dude working with kids. 

Broderick Jones
-He's not just a good pass rushing LT, he's a big physical mauler who's also good in pass pro vs speed rushers

Peter Skoronski
-Grandpa played for Lombari's 5 Championship teams. He's a day one starter with flawless technique. 

-All three of these players can kick inside...particularly Skoronski who has shorter arms and is the worst athlete of the group. 
So again, IF Bakh or Caleb Jones or Rasheed Walker prove they're SOO much better than this year or just healthier, we have another stud inside.

---Long shot
Will Anderson
He's the best player in that draft class and could wreck havoc next to Gary. He'd have to fall for some reason...and that reason would likely be QBs and OL. It'd also mean we end up with ~5/6 wins.

WRer-Only if there's a guy there who is an absolute beast. A All Pro caliber. We drafted talented WRers this year. They'll develop and we'll draft one or two next year. We can't chase a pick for Rodgers. Again, if that 6'4 kid from TCU, or Addison or Bouttte or Rice from SMU are can't miss prospects, take them. Otherwise, wait and develop one. If you're going to try and pry that window back open for a year or two after this one, in addition to needing to get lucky, you'll need to make the right picks, not draft for need.

Plus,  in a year from now, you'd hope Doubs, Watson, Toure(who looks actually impressive, though maybe it's just relative to the shite we're comparing him to). They should grow together. 

 

Will Levis if he's as good as they say could be an option. Anthony Richardson in the 2nd round could be interesting. Hooker. These are all guys we could trade up for in the 2nd round or take in the 1st if Rodgers retires(or even if he doesn't). 

 

I hate that we're talking about the draft at this point, but I still believe this team has Superstar caliber talent all over the roster. This year has just been an unmitigated disaster, but fix the OL, then add to the WR/TE via trade or in the later rounds, but get a player for the next 10 years, not just the next 1 or 2. 

 

(I'm also quite certain everyone else hates when this team loses because of my long, inane ranting posts to try and make me think up a way the Packers can still win in the near term). 

[homer]

Pack might have a shot at Stroud or Young without having to trade up. 

[UpandIn]

22 minutes ago, homer said:

Pack might have a shot at Stroud or Young without having to trade up. 

Stroud is different than your typical OSU QB...but I'm also not sure he's big enough for the cold in GB. 

Will Levis is the guy I'd be interested in and is probably more realistic. I think Young/Stroud will be gone in the top 5 picks and...I do think this team will go on a LITTLE bit of a run. 

He looks like a mix of Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert but less refined than Luck(though who wasn't). 

I still think we're going to watch #12 under center for another year or two, but if we don't, he's a 6'4 240 QB with athletic ability and a huge arm.

The type of guy who could open up the MLF offense quite a bit more...MLF wouldn't have to share his playbook with Rodgers and he could kinda develop his own scheme, incorporate a little more RPO with the QB being part of that R option. 

 

Honestly, anything sounds better right now than a Packers team that's not even good enough to get to the post-season and break out hearts. 

[adambr2]

10 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I don't think it was that we didn't need a RB or a TE. We needed both. 

We didn't need a QB, but as the old saying goes, that's the best time to draft one. 

The problem with this team is NOT the 1st 3 rounds in the 2020 draft. I mean, had they traded up for Jefferson, it could have been a solution, but Tee Higgins or Chase Claypool isn't solving our problems. 

 

Jordan Love....I still have no clue how good he is, but if Rodgers comes back next year(and I think his ego is too big to retire on a 6-11 team) then we'll likely never find out. 

 

I'm sorry, I agree with a great deal of your takes but this is REALLY reaching to me, re: 2020 draft. 

We didn't need a RB. At all. We had Aaron Jones, we still have Aaron Jones, and we continued to pay Aaron Jones even after we drafting AJ Dillon. If we needed a RB, then every team needs a RB. Spending a 2nd round pick on someone like AJ Dillon only makes sense if he is, no question, your guy inside the 5, your Lynch, your Henry. We had numerous goal to go opportunities yesterday. If AJ Dillon is not your man down there, he is a wasted pick. 

And Deguara? I mean come on, he is what he is, he's an H back. He isn't and never was going to be a high end receiving talent, and it's insane to spend 3rd round picks on guys like that to fill complementary roles that get filled by journeymen like Marcedes Lewis every season. 

Whether or not you believe in Love (the Packers clearly don't that much at this point), he makes sense in the 1st ONLY if you're willing to see your plan through. If you're willing to stop trying to keep that window open, to stop kicking the can down the road and move on to your guy and cash in on Rodgers when you had the chance, then it makes sense. 

To just spend a 1st round pick on a guy to hold a clipboard? That's nuts. It's a waste. It makes no sense. They couldn't pick a plan and stick with it, and as a result they're not contenders, and they're also not set up well for the future. Not a good position to be in. 

 

 

 

[CheezWizHed]

I watched the game last night in condensed mode (NFL Replay).  The good part is you can watch a game in half the time.  The bad part is that they spend precious little time on anything game critical - like injuries.  I knew somethings were happening, but not the extent of them.  This morning... ouch that was pretty painful

• Gary - ACL
• Watson - Concussion (Again! This is not good...)
• Jones - ankle injury
• Stokes - ankle injury
• Doubs - ankle injury
• Barnes - Concussion

The season is dead... When do we see what Love can bring?  I think you have to let him see some time out there don't you?

I'm also worried about Watson.  Back to back weeks with concussions... I know there are different levels of concussions and we tend to be more cautious now, but that still doesn't bode well for his future health. 

[yourout]

How safe is MLF?

If the season continues to unravel do you think they would dump him if ARod and MLF's relationship falls apart?

Normally his record from his first 3 years would earn him some slack but this year has really exposed him as a coach now that he has Average Joe ARod instead of All-World ARod.

I would be happy to see him go but I'm not getting my hopes up. And frankly I would be fine with Guty leaving with him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think AJ Dillon is any kind of black eye or even worth regretting. Most teams have two capable RBs and I don't think that "we have Aaron Jones so we can't draft a RB" is particularly sound thinking. I also didn't have an issue with Love. I do have an issue with the fact that he is still on the roster years later and after extending Rodgers. They do seem to have problems grasping sunken costs. When Plan A doesn't pan out it's ok to change gears and go with Plan B, you don't have to wait for Plan M to be your only option.

[homer]

I'll say now what I said after the 2020 draft. I wasn't too upset the the guys they took just that they took all of them a round too early (with Love they should have just stayed at 30).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

1 minute ago, yourout said:

How safe is MLF?

If the season continues to unravel do you think they would dump him if ARod and MLF's relationship falls apart?

Normally his record from his first 3 years would earn him some slack but this year has really exposed him as a coach now that he has Average Joe ARod instead of All-World ARod.

I would be happy to see him go but I'm not getting my hopes up. And frankly I would be fine with Guty leaving with him.

Safe. But the seat will be hotter going into next season than you'd think from a coach who went 39-10 in three years. Justifiably so. Zero chance he's canned. If they go into next season with some kind of retooling, are expected to win and suck again, then I think he's in real jeopardy.

[HarryDoyle]

Feel sick for Gary. One of the few bright spots on this team.

[endaround]

Spending 2nd round picks on a running back is always questionable. It is really questionable if the RB isn't even playing their first year and you have an RB signed to a huge contract. That is a lot of resources tied to a fungible position.

Love at this point it doesn't matter.  His 5th year option will be like $20-22 million. Anyone want to pay that? This draft with zero real QB prospects was the time to move him to a team that could have him start to see if anything is there. But at this point, if he plays well you aren't going to want to extend him on one season and if you pick up the option then your are looking a Kirk Cousins franchise tag situation which will kill you.

[homer]

I still can't believe they traded up to get Amari Rodgers

[OldSchoolSnapper]

This is all classic 20/20. I didn't hear any significant number of people bemoaning AJ Dillon until this crappy season. Most people liked the versatility at the position until this month. 

The truth is the Packers built two championship quality teams (quickly, on the heels of looking very bad in 2018) and didn't finish the job and it really had very little or nothing to do with the GM everyone suddenly wants to fire. The guys on the field didn't get it done the last two seasons. That was the window with their aging QB. There were holes on the roster, there always are on any team, and the GM is always lightning rod there. But they were every bit of "good enough" to get another one and blew it. In particular, last year when the field was soft and they showed all year they were better than the contenders. When you load up like they did that rocket has to come back to Earth and it is this year.

Last year might go down as worse than 2014 for me personally. I thought they had the best team. Them's the breaks I guess.

[homer]

I mean they've had some bad luck with injuries. When you lose two all pro offensive linemen to ACLs within a 12 month span you are sort of snake bit. 

[GAME05]

MLF's past history also has him running the ball at least 60% of the time, so another good RB made sense.

I'm not convinced yet it's a sure thing that Rodgers comes back. Maybe he only wanted this season, or maybe he'll think next year the Packers will be rebuilding or again not good and be more open to going elsewhere. Or will he be as motivated to stay if Cobb and Bakhtiari both leave?

[adambr2]

35 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

This is all classic 20/20. I didn't hear any significant number of people bemoaning AJ Dillon until this crappy season. 

I can assure you that there was a ton of bemoaning the AJ Dillon pick when it was made and then it made even less sense when Jones got extended. 

The words "this is all classic 20/20" should never be used in discussion of the Packers 2020 draft. It was a heavily, heavily panned draft class by experts and fans alike at the time. It was widely considered to be among the worst of any team that year. The only defense of it at the time was "we'll have to wait and see" and now it's been almost 3 seasons and we've waited and seen and it was very, very bad. 

[adambr2]

12 minutes ago, GAME05 said:

MLF's past history also has him running the ball at least 60% of the time, so another good RB made sense.

This is another example of this team constantly lacking any clear direction in this era. 

Ok, so we're going to build a ground based offense? Ok...except then we're going to mortgage our future and extend our 39 year old QB for 50M a year? And not move on to our 1st round young QB? And pass on the last chance at significant draft capital for our old QB?

Gutekunst's moves, even if some make sense in a vacuum, end up making no sense at all when the bigger picture comes into focus. 

[homer]

11 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

The only defense of it at the time was "we'll have to wait and see" and now it's been almost 3 seasons and we've waited and seen and it was very, very bad. 

Really it doesn't matter what people think of drafts when they happen. The only way they should be judged is by how the players perform. That draft sucked.

[Fear The Chorizo]

12 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

This is another example of this team constantly lacking any clear direction in this era. 

Ok, so we're going to build a ground based offense? Ok...except then we're going to mortgage our future and extend our 39 year old QB for 50M a year? And not move on to our 1st round young QB? And pass on the last chance at significant draft capital for our old QB?

Gutekunst's moves, even if some make sense in a vacuum, end up making no sense at all when the bigger picture comes into focus. 

Offensively, I think this is what happens when you have a vet qb that appeared on a slow decline suddenly regain MVP level form to the point of continuing to play salary cap roulette with an aging core of vets, aided by giving him more of a say in personnel decisions to keep him happy, then have father time remind everyone that he's undefeated and there's not enough experienced talent on the outside to make plays on their own.

 

Defensively, they just aren't a dominant unit despite alot of talent on that side of the ball.  Call it scheme, poor safety play, inconsistent play upfront, etc....just not good enough to carry a team who can't score on offense.

[adambr2]

1 minute ago, homer said:

Really it doesn't matter what people think of drafts when they happen. The only way they should be judged is by how the players perform. That draft sucked.

I do agree mostly ...the opinions of the draftniks don't really matter. 

In my opinion though, if you're going to go way, way against the grain (Packers 2020 draft ...Justin Harrell...etc)

 

...you had better be right. 

That's the kind of thing that will cost a GM his job, and IMO, the 2020 draft is directly going to cost Gute his job. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Is it really "lacking direction" or is it the realistic consequence of trying to build a future while simultaneously paying the 40 y/o QB $50 million? 

[homer]

8 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Is it really "lacking direction" or is it the realistic consequence of trying to build a future while simultaneously paying the 40 y/o QB $50 million? 

I don't think they thought Adams was actually going to leave.

[Fear The Chorizo]

21 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Is it really "lacking direction" or is it the realistic consequence of trying to build a future while simultaneously paying the 40 y/o QB $50 million? 

Ding ding...when you've got a HOF qb you ride him until he's done being able to make everyone better around him, even if doing so costs you roster quality elsewhere due to cap constraints.  Once that happens its tough to transition into a rebuild without a painful season or two, and oftentimes with a total regime change in the front office.

Really appears thats where the Packers are.

[HarryDoyle]

34 minutes ago, homer said:

I don't think they thought Adams was actually going to leave.

Which is an indictment on the organization.