Hiura Slighted and Demoted; Adames hitting #2 with a .289 OBP

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, monty57 said:

Other than "who gets a bigger paycheck," Hiura has beaten McCutchen in pretty much any way someone could look at it... except for hitting vs LHP, which is the primary time Hiura has been used. Thankfully, he's starting to look a little better in that regard as well.

I don't know who made the call (Counsell, Attanasio, or Stearns), but it seems obvious that when McCutcheon was signed, he was cemented into the middle of the order every day. I get why he was signed, I think that Hiura surprised everyone by actually hitting this year, and that has caused the stir.

You might be correct that they wrote Hiura off, but it’s August and they’ve been struggling to win ball games for the better part of a month. All these guys from the front office to the dugout to the players know heads tend to roll when teams with big expectations crash and burn. The Brewers haven’t crashed yet but they’re definitely losing altitude fast. As such, the money isn’t a factor if it ever was. 

[LouisEly]

3 hours ago, nate82 said:

I am just guessing here but I would say well below average.  I haven't found anything league wide that breaks it down like I posted previously.  But just by the eye test Hiura can't hit fastballs up in the zone actually he can't hit much of anything up in the zone due to his swing.  He is more likely to whiff at something at the top of the zone than anywhere else.  

Even if the league was at 50% Hiura would still be below average and I doubt the league as a whole is at a 50% whiff rate at the top of the strike zone it is probably closer to 35-45% than it is to 50%.  This is not just fastballs that Hiura is missing at the top of the strike zone but all pitches at the top of the strike zone.  

Old data, but according to Baseball Savant, from 2008 to 2014 league ISO at the top of the zone declined significantly and contact rates on pitches up in the zone have declined.

The problem with targeting the top of the zone exclusively is if you miss high you increase walks/pitch counts and if you miss low.... ball go far. 

[UpandIn]

7 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

If you read the quotes from Counsell, it hasn't simply been which bat is better. He believes McCutchen at DH and Taylor/Davis in CF is a better configuration than Hiura at DH and McCutchen in CF.  Hard to argue his logic is wrong, maybe the anger should be directed towards the front office for brining in McCutchen in the first place, although given what Hiura showed in 2020 and 2021, it was prudent to have another option at DH. 

That makes no sense to me. How about Hiura at DH and Taylor/Davis in CF...for the next couple days. 

[NBBrewFan]

32 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

That makes no sense to me. How about Hiura at DH and Taylor/Davis in CF...for the next couple days. 

keep reading.

[rickh150]

Balls be ripped…. Righties beware.

[Never Outhustled]

13 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Sounds like you need to have a conversation with Craig about the definition of better, because he disagrees with you, and I don't think he got stupid overnight. 

I think the owner has told Craig that his favorite player, McCutchen, must play every day. 

McCutchen stinks versus RHP, has for years, and has no business being in the lineup over Hiura versus a rhp.

[monty57]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:34 PM, nate82 said:

I do and Keston has exactly 1 hit in the upper half of the strike zone.  That is right 1 hit so I guess that is an improvement over 0.  Oh and he is still whiffing at about a 60% at the upper part of the zone?  Did you even look at his upper zone swings at all?  

Here they are so you don't have to look for yourself apparently you just got outhustled here.....

Thanks for sharing this. I've enjoyed watching Hiura this year, but now I'm looking for this. Last night against the Dodgers, it was spot on. As soon as a ball was thrown low in the zone, it ended up in the bleachers.

[Hopper]

I just have to laugh at anyone who is still on the "Hiura sucks and has no value" train.  K's and all, this dude is a spark plug for this team who is in desperate need of that spark plug.  So thankful they didn't give him away at the trade deadline for yet another relief pitcher.

He has to be a full time starter at this point, maybe not defensively, but at the very least DH.  Give him an occasional start in LF, 2B, and 1B, but for the love of GOD, get this kid into the line-up daily from this point on.

CC, someone must be telling you to bench him because I refuse to believe that our manager is so completely stubborn that they are willing to sacrifice wins for whatever the reason is you won't play him...  That, or the people calling for a change at manager might have a point.

Something has to change, and it is sooooo obvious that one of those changes has to be getting Hiura full time playing status.

[Jopal78]

39 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I just have to laugh at anyone who is still on the "Hiura sucks and has no value" train.  K's and all, this dude is a spark plug for this team who is in desperate need of that spark plug.  So thankful they didn't give him away at the trade deadline for yet another relief pitcher.

He has to be a full time starter at this point, maybe not defensively, but at the very least DH.  Give him an occasional start in LF, 2B, and 1B, but for the love of GOD, get this kid into the line-up daily from this point on.

CC, someone must be telling you to bench him because I refuse to believe that our manager is so completely stubborn that they are willing to sacrifice wins for whatever the reason is you won't play him...  That, or the people calling for a change at manager might have a point.

Something has to change, and it is sooooo obvious that one of those changes has to be getting Hiura full time playing status.

You’re probably going to get your wish; because when better then 50 percent of a player’s hits go over the fence for homers (like Hiura this month); they’re likely going to play every night. 
 

Hiura August: 29 plate appearances, 8 hits, zero doubles, zero triples, 5 homers, one walk and 11 Ks.

[rickh150]

And by the way, Hiura’s OPS is 1.120 against RHP.  He still might be sitting against righties. 
Goldschmidt and Arenado, MVP candidates, cannot match this with .903 and .970 vs rhp respectively.
 

 

[torts]

KESTDADDY4MVP

[Never Outhustled]

Play the man. I know it might seem crazy to CC, but I've always thought that it's a good idea to play your best offensive player. 

[rickh150]

On 8/26/2022 at 9:02 PM, rickh150 said:

And by the way, Hiura’s OPS is 1.120 against RHP.  He still might be sitting against righties. 
Goldschmidt and Arenado, MVP candidates, cannot match this with .903 and .970 vs rhp respectively.
 

 

Will he start tomorrow?

[Never Outhustled]

2 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Will he start tomorrow?

If Rowdy is out, then yes. If Rowdy's knee is OK, then you know CC will go with Tellez at 1st and McScrub at DH. It's depressing. 

[rickh150]

13 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

If Rowdy is out, then yes. If Rowdy's knee is OK, then you know CC will go with Tellez at 1st and McScrub at DH. It's depressing. 

Getting called to bunt in the 9th there… 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

8 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

Play the man. I know it might seem crazy to CC, but I've always thought that it's a good idea to play your best offensive player. 

Given that Mitch Keller throws with his right hand, I would deduce that Hiura will be in tonight's starting lineup.

[Fear The Chorizo]

30 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Given that Mitch Keller throws with his right hand, I would deduce that Hiura will be in tonight's starting lineup.

Agreed - however a righthanded starter didn't stop Hiura from starting the game last night on the bench.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

11 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Agreed - however a righthanded starter didn't stop Hiura from starting the game last night on the bench.

He's had 3 hits in his last 15 ABs coming into last night with 6 Ks. Guessing that's more the reason.  

[Fear The Chorizo]

26 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

He's had 3 hits in his last 15 ABs coming into last night with 6 Ks. Guessing that's more the reason.  

And McCutcheon is 3 for his last 22 with 8 Ks and no extra base hits....

Urias is 3 for his last 35....

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

16 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

And McCutcheon is 3 for his last 21 with 8 Ks and no extra base hits....

Yeah, there is that. Counsell = round hole, Hiura = square peg

[Fear The Chorizo]

I get that Hiura strikes out a ton - but he's got to be the DH in the lineup pretty much every day, with the exception being against a LH starter if there are issues also getting McCutcheon in the lineup as an OF.  

A guy leading the roster in OPS shouldn't be a square peg to get in the lineup almost everyday no matter how many strikeouts he racks up.

[monty57]

So, McCutchen is now at .244 / .313 / .391 / .704, for a Fangraphs WAR of 0.2 and a wRC+ of 97, primarily at DH which should be a position in which you put a guy that is a better-than-average hitter. He is basically replacement level, and he's the main reason that Hiura only has 191 plate appearances on the season.

Oh well, at least they finally took McCutchen out of the 3 hole in the lineup, as he was hitting 6th in yesterday's game. We regularly put Adames' sub-.300 OBP in the two hole and McCutchen's replacement level bat in the 3 hole with out best "vs RHP" bat sitting on the bench and wonder why we have a hard time scoring runs on a regular basis... go figure.

That's enough negativity from me. We're on a three-game winning streak and closing in on the final Wild Card spot. Go Brewers!

[Never Outhustled]

1 hour ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

He's had 3 hits in his last 15 ABs coming into last night with 6 Ks. Guessing that's more the reason.  

With a bunch of those starts coming versus LHP. No one here is asking for him to start versus LHP

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, monty57 said:

So, McCutchen is now at .244 / .313 / .391 / .704, for a Fangraphs WAR of 0.2 and a wRC+ of 97, primarily at DH which should be a position in which you put a guy that is a better-than-average hitter. He is basically replacement level, and he's the main reason that Hiura only has 191 plate appearances on the season.

Oh well, at least they finally took McCutchen out of the 3 hole in the lineup, as he was hitting 6th in yesterday's game. We regularly put Adames' sub-.300 OBP in the two hole and McCutchen's replacement level bat in the 3 hole with out best "vs RHP" bat sitting on the bench and wonder why we have a hard time scoring runs on a regular basis... go figure.

That's enough negativity from me. We're on a three-game winning streak and closing in on the final Wild Card spot. Go Brewers!

Does it really matter what happened in  May and July they were in first place the entire time? The facts are since mid August, Keston Hiura has 38 plate appearances at DH, McCutchen has 34. But wait there's more.... of McCutchen's 34 PAs as the DH, 19 of those PAs were in games where Hiura was also in the line up at a different position. Therefore since mid-August, Hiura has been in there as DH most of the time. Moreover, of the 15 PAs McCutchen has had at DH (without Hiura in the lineup) since mid-August, McCutchen was in there against Julio Urias (lefty), Andrew Haney (lefty), Drew Smyly (lefty). 

The reality is, McCutchen is rarely the DH anymore against RHP with Hiura also on the bench. I'm sure this will be dismissed as anecdotal evidence. However, as long as Hiura continues to homer at a hall of fame pace, he probably will be in there in some capacity the vast majority of the time. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 minute ago, Never Outhustled said:

With a bunch of those starts coming versus LHP. No one here is asking for him to start versus LHP

Who do you start vs. lefties then? Rowdy is a terrible matchup vs. them. Brosseau is hurt.