Game Thread (8/19/2022): Brewers (Ashby) at Cubs (Thompson) - 1:20 PM CDT

[ReverendBrewmeister]

12 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

So I know won loss record is not an indicator for good pitching.

with that being said Ashby is 2-10 on the season…….i don’t know how to find what the Brewers record in games he’s started.

He also has a negative War……minus 0.2 before today..

It appears that the Brewers are now 5-12 this season in games started by Ashby. 

[treego14]

CC, "I thought Aaron pitched pretty well ..."

Yost, "Soup pitched great ..."

Give me a break!

[Jim French Stepstool]

10 minutes ago, ReverendBrewmeister said:

That’s what makes this team so maddeningly frustrating to watch this year. Seems like game results have little rhyme or reason compared to the expected performances of a predicted playoff team. 
 

Dangerous time to lose multiple games in Chicago before heading to Los Angeles with the way St. Louis is playing right now. Don’t want to say “must win” for two games in August, but the games on Saturday and Sunday could be crucial. 

It's tough to put a finger on, other than to pull out the same old boring word about consistency. In everything, really. Take the first inning. We score two against Thompson. Renfroe follows with a grounder steered through the right side vs the shift. Smart. Then Wong walks. We score no more, but forced the guy to throw 26 or 27 pitches. Great start to screwing up their pen for the whole weekend.

In the second inning, we only make him throw 7.

By the last two/three innings we've got McCutchen swinging 2-0 leading off the inning, and then the chases, turning 2-1 counts into 1-2, potential 3-2 counts into chased swings, and so on.

Ashby allowing a potential 4 runs that had nothing to do with batted balls.

The talent to at least reach post-season is there. I mean, MLB has seen to that with the expansion of the playoffs. Whether it's Counsell, the players, hitting coaches, whoever, the consistency isn't. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 minutes ago, treego14 said:

CC, "I thought Aaron pitched pretty well ..."

Yost, "Soup pitched great ..."

Give me a break!

IMO he pitched.......not well, not horribly. See above. If the question was how did Ashby PLAY, then "well" would be laughable. Ned constantly bending over backwards to defend Suppan is something I purged from my memory forever. Thanks a lot!!!!?

[NBBrewFan]

10 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

By the last two/three innings we've got McCutchen swinging 2-0 leading off the inning, and then the chases, turning 2-1 counts into 1-2, potential 3-2 counts into chased swings, and so on.

Ashby allowing a potential 4 runs that had nothing to do with batted balls.

The talent to at least reach post-season is there. I mean, MLB has seen to that with the expansion of the playoffs. Whether it's Counsell, the players, hitting coaches, whoever, the consistency isn't. 

But they've had bad approaches the whole year.  Teams just throw the first pitch down the middle of the plate as 99.9% of the time the Brewers hitters just sit there for 0-1.  Then pitch 2 is in a less then desirable location and they either watch it or swing and miss.  Down 0-2.  Has nobody on the Brewers ever looked at the expectancy charts for count and results?  The Brewers are hitting like you would expect from batters who are consistently behind in the count.  Is that a few players going rouge or is it the Teams Philosophy (see more pitches per AB?) It just seems like they almost never get their pitch to hit when they do put a ball in play or when striking out. At this point it really seems like it's the hitting philosophy for the Brewers. 

[JefferyLeonard]

This is what happens when your whole season is based on "hope". Hope the pitching is just as good as it was last year. "hope" that some hitters perform better than they did last year. This is also what happens when you refuse to spend $$ in free agency to acquire a big bat(McCutcheon doesn't count). Hope is not a strategy...never has been, never will be, and yet, that's the Brewers strategy year after year with a window that is closing rapidly.

[brewers888]

Stearns has done a very bad job starting at the last trade deadline through the offseason and now this deadline was a big fail. As for Counsell his performance has been nothing short of awful.

[BruisedCrew]

According to both Fangraphs and 538 the Brewers chances of winning the division are sinking like a stone. They both put it at about 24% with about a 30% chance of getting a wild card berth. 

[brewers888]

I remember when Counsell was great at playing matchups with the bullpen and used Hader in the 7th or 8th inning when the top hitters were due up and now you can almost predict exactly who is coming in and the over reliance on Milner lately when he's been pitching horribly makes no sense.

[brewers888]

Just now, BruisedCrew said:

According to both Fangraphs and 538 the Brewers chances of winning the division are sinking like a stone. They both put it at about 24% with about a 30% chance of getting a wild card berth. 

Considering the difficulty of remaining schedules and the fact that ST Louis has dominated the losing teams that we keep flailing against the division looks close to sealed. 

[willie key]

2 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

According to both Fangraphs and 538 the Brewers chances of winning the division are sinking like a stone. They both put it at about 24% with about a 30% chance of getting a wild card berth. 

Those guys are so far behind.    I had it about 20% about two weeks ago.   It should be worse than that now

[brewers888]

I can already tell you the big move of the offseason for the lineup will be bringing McCutchen back on another one year deal. When you consider he plays everyday hitting 3rd or 4th I'd be very surprised if we don't bring him back and trade Hiura for another middle reliever which we never seem to have enough of.

[Ro Mueller]

1 minute ago, brewers888 said:

I remember when Counsell was great at playing matchups with the bullpen and used Hader in the 7th or 8th inning when the top hitters were due up and now you can almost predict exactly who is coming in and the over reliance on Milner lately when he's been pitching horribly makes no sense.

Maybe he's bored. Zero pinch hits. No reliever brought in mid-inning to attempt to strand baserunner(s). No defensive replacements. Somebody needs to reach for the defibrillator for this team.

[treego14]

6 minutes ago, damuelle said:

Maybe he's bored. Zero pinch hits. No reliever brought in mid-inning to attempt to strand baserunner(s). No defensive replacements. Somebody needs to reach for the defibrillator for this team.

At least, Ashby pitched "pretty well."  He only gave up 6 runs and 8 hits in 5 innings, after all.  

[Ro Mueller]

3 minutes ago, treego14 said:

At least, Ashby pitched "pretty well."  He only gave up 6 runs and 8 hits in 5 innings, after all.  

...which is part of the point. We let him start the 5th inning anyway despite struggling and being at 75 pitches with ALL righties set to hit against him: Madrigal, Contreras, Wisdom, Suzuki, Reyes. And let him continue after giving up a leadoff single in that inning.

I know my own mind-set is more of a teenage one on this, but why not change things up? Show some urgency? Creativity? It just seems lethargic to me, unfortunately. Color me frustrated.

[Jim French Stepstool]

20 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

But they've had bad approaches the whole year.  Teams just throw the first pitch down the middle of the plate as 99.9% of the time the Brewers hitters just sit there for 0-1.  Then pitch 2 is in a less then desirable location and they either watch it or swing and miss.  Down 0-2.  Has nobody on the Brewers ever looked at the expectancy charts for count and results?  The Brewers are hitting like you would expect from batters who are consistently behind in the count.  Is that a few players going rouge or is it the Teams Philosophy (see more pitches per AB?) It just seems like they almost never get their pitch to hit when they do put a ball in play or when striking out. At this point it really seems like it's the hitting philosophy for the Brewers. 

 I've seen a ton of first pitches chased that weren't strikes. And I've seen a lot of first pitch strikes taken, & the AB was still successful.

But to answer your question, I think it's the team philosophy. They do walk a fair amount & sometimes work the count successfully, but that almost seems like an individual thing more than anything. So I strongly agree it IS the philosophy. The idea of "the first two strikes are yours, the last one is for the team" I think runs through most of this roster. And I absolutely hate it. Pitchers know this & take advantage. It should depend on situation (like I said above, McCutchen swinging 2-0 leading off. if runners are on 2nd & 3rd, different animal).

Another thing, too, is there's hitters who can change the mindset a bit with 2 strikes, and hang on for dear life, foul off 4-5 pitches, etc. I don't see much if any adjustment from our guys in those counts, I guess mainly because we don't have those type of hitters. The organization does seem to want to change that going forward.

[trwi7]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Goodie. We're already into a Cubs bullpen that no longer has Robertson, Givens, or Effross. Time to take advantage. 

Effross.  Chandler4lyfe.

[BruisedCrew]

The Brewers offense seems to be the panacea for anybody’s bullpen. 

They managed 3 hits in 5.1 innings against the Cubs pen today, and I think only one of the hits left the infield.

A rainout seems like a real possibility for tomorrow. A doubleheader Sunday before the trip to LA is not ideal. 

[Austin Tatious]

Today, sure, the offense wasn't the issue.  But the bigger point is you pick up some runs against crap pitching to beef up your offensive stats and then have the analytics guys tell you that the offense is fine, or average at worst.  There are a couple of black holes in the lineup, a couple of mediocre spots, some average spots and maybe one or two guys that are doing fine.  Collectively, it is a broken and dysfunctional lineup that needs correction in the offseason.  

[willie key]

Mid August and for all intents and purposes out of the division title race

 

thats pretty pathetic 

 

 

[Ro Mueller]

{Deleting post to wrong thread}

[Nola Beery]

I'm all but finished with caring about the Brewers' place in the standings.  Even if your team is dead last, you can always get a little joy out of any single game they win.  Lowered expectations? Well.... I prefer to think of it as "living in the present moment."  ??

I might start looking to the future if Stearns et al. show that they are doing so.