Contreras to Cardinals - 5 years, $87 million

[StearnsFTW]

29 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I no longer expect them to make a trade that will help the mlb club….. even in a playoff race!

The horse is dead dude 

[superfly]

9 hours ago, Hopper said:

yup, ho-hum, another Brewers off season.

Next year we’ll make the big splash!

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

So you don't think acquiring Winker for Wong will help the mlb club? I would question that. You seem to be one of the people that the Josh Hader trade has broken....It's all you ever bring up. 

No, I am not confident in that trade. Winker was awful last year and the other guy was worse. More awful averages.
And you just brought up Hader, not me. Adding to the team in a beneficial way has not happened in a long while. We look to be desperately looking to drop big salaries. Maybe this makes us better, but it doesn’t look promising. Who are we dangling to get better at the mlb level? Anyone of any significance? We aren’t signing any top FA. Just bleak. And the Cards are getting better. 

[Brewcrew82]

18 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

No, I am not confident in that trade. Winker was awful last year and the other guy was worse. More awful averages.
And you just brought up Hader, not me. Adding to the team in a beneficial way has not happened in a long while. We look to be desperately looking to drop big salaries. Maybe this makes us better, but it doesn’t look promising. Who are we dangling to get better at the mlb level? Anyone of any significance? We aren’t signing any top FA. Just bleak. And the Cards are getting better. 

Winker was pretty clearly injured last year, which he has subsequently remedied via surgery. The two years before that, he was one of the best hitters in the game, OPSing over .930. For his career, he's hit: .270/.374/.463. But, yeah, that won't contribute to or improve our offense at all...

No, you were the one who brought up Hader, as you always do, when you talked about how you "no longer expect them to make a trade that will help the mlb club...even in a playoff race!" The reference there is clear. Don't treat us like we're idiots. 

Who are these free agents that you think we should sign? Cause all I see so far are mega-deals that the Brewers will never have the capacity to shoulder. It's December 7th. More than two months until pitchers and catchers meet, and there are still plenty of free agent and trade options out there. I suggest you take a step off the ledge, if you are able to. 

[rickh150]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Winker was pretty clearly injured last year, which he has subsequently remedied via surgery. The two years before that, he was one of the best hitters in the game, OPSing over .930. For his career, he's hit: .270/.374/.463. But, yeah, that won't contribute to or improve our offense at all...

No, you were the one who brought up Hader, as you always do, when you talked about how you "no longer expect them to make a trade that will help the mlb club...even in a playoff race!" The reference there is clear. Don't treat us like we're idiots. 

Who are these free agents that you think we should sign? Cause all I see so far are mega-deals that the Brewers will never have the capacity to shoulder. It's December 7th. More than two months until pitchers and catchers meet, and there are still plenty of free agent and trade options out there. I suggest you take a step off the ledge, if you are able to. 

We didn’t add a bat at the deadline in 2022 or really much of anything last offseason. You brought up Hader. For me, it’s just part of the bad transactions over the last what 2 or 3 years?

[Brewcrew82]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:39 PM, rickh150 said:

We didn’t add a bat at the deadline either

.

[Brewcrew82]

12 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

 For me, it’s just part of the bad transactions over the last what 2 or 3 years?

Did the Adames, Tellez, and Renfroe (1st) trades not happen within that timeframe? 

[Redd Vencher]

59 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

No, I am not confident in that trade. Winker was awful last year and the other guy was worse. More awful averages.
And you just brought up Hader, not me. Adding to the team in a beneficial way has not happened in a long while. We look to be desperately looking to drop big salaries. Maybe this makes us better, but it doesn’t look promising. Who are we dangling to get better at the mlb level? Anyone of any significance? We aren’t signing any top FA. Just bleak. And the Cards are getting better. 

Winker had a 108 wRC+ which is 2022 Adames (109)/2022 Tellez (110). His career 126 wRC+ is 2022 Reynolds (125)/2022 Schwarber (128), and his career best 147 wRC+ is 2022 Soto (145)/2022 Rodriguez (146)/2022 Diaz (146). Even if he repeats 2022, he's 10% better than McCutchen(98 wRC+). The potential for a big time bat is there.

[Brewermania101]

17 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't see this happening and especially not in 2024. I think the most likely outcome is a hybrid challenge system, which MLB has been trying out in testing leagues. Basically, it works like the standard challenge system: the ump's call stands unless the manager (or maybe batter/pitcher? not sure on details) challenges a specific call. Then it automatically defaults to the already-generated computer strikezone call. If you win the challenge, you keep the challenge. If you lose the challenge, you lose the challenge.

And in that situation, framing will still be very relevant.

 

Both teams will be successful in keeping all  their challenges and the game will last an extra 15 minutes with Angel Hernandez behind the plate

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm sure this has been posted many times already but I'll say it again, another giant turd to float around in the clogged toilet bowl that is the Cardinals organization.

[monty57]

Contreras would obviously have been a nice addition for the Brewers. They need a catcher, and they need a RH bat, so he would have fit nicely. This is an acquisition which will help the Cardinals, especially for the next few seasons.

The Brewers really aren't in a position to add a multi-year, bigger-money deal. I believe they went into this offseason with 18 guys in arbitration, so a good chunk of their team will be free agents in the next 2-3 years. Their first priority is whether they will extend any of these guys. Signing someone like Contreras would pretty much end the thought of any substantial extensions. 

Any additions we make should either be young guys with a lot of team control, who will still be around when our current arby guys are gone, or one-year stopgaps who can help the team win games in '23, and will then be off the books.

"Maybe next year" is a euphemism that is said with a mocking tone in sports, but maybe next year the Brewers will be in a position to add a longer-term deal. It's probably more "Maybe the year after next." At that point, we will have either extended or traded most/all of our current arby guys, and should have a lot of pre-arby talent at the MLB level. The end of the Yelich deal won't seem quite so far away, and we could probably fit a quality veteran in with the young stars, some of which will hopefully accept Peralta/Ashby-style extensions.

But not now. A long-term, big-money deal that isn't an extension of one of our current players just doesn't make sense at this point.

[torts]

I love with players I don't like sign with teams I don't like

[Jopal78]

23 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Did the Adames, Tellez, and Renfroe (1st) trades not happen within that timeframe? 

One could certainly argue that those were all “lateral moves”. Renfroe was one and done. According to the pundits Tellez is available in a trade, and the Brewers traded a relieve and front of the rotation starter both with 5 years of control for a position player with 4 years of control…a push at best. 

[rickh150]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:40 PM, Brewcrew82 said:

 

You.....

Looks like our hitters swinging from their heels. 
My hope is that this slight, yet deep and troubling downturn with the team is over soon. The teams needs bats, and no, rebound projects do not count.

[Brewcrew82]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:56 PM, Jopal78 said:

One could certainly argue that those were all “lateral moves”. Renfroe was one and done. According to the pundits Tellez is available in a trade, and the Brewers traded a relieve and front of the rotation starter both with 5 years of control for a position player with 4 years of control…a push at best. 

Renfroe may have been one and done, but we had absolutely no business getting him for JBJ. That was a pure master stroke by Stearns and a huge upgrade this past season compared to what Avisail Garcia would have given us had we resigned him to the $53 million deal the Marlins gave him...

Who did we trade to the Jays for Tellez? Trevor Richards, who put up a 5.34 ERA and a -0.8 WAR this past season, and Bowden Francis, who had an ERA of 6.59 this season in AAA. Meanwhile, we got a player who single handedly carried the offense in the 2021 NLDS, and then came back and hit 35 HRs this year. The fact that he is hypothetically available in a trade means nothing when you consider that we were also listening on Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames until recently.

As for the Adames trade, Feyereisen has only been able to pitch in 60 innings for TB and is now undergoing shoulder surgery. Rasmussen has been really good in a starting role for TB, but his combined WAR over the last two seasons doesn't even match Adames' from this year and has limited innings because the Rays don't let him pitch past the 5th inning. In addition, Adames proved to be the catalyst for a 95 win ball-club in 2021 and has developed into a top 10 SS in the game. A "push"? Hardly. We traded from a position of strength in our pitching, and in return, got the high-level SS we desperately needed...

[Axman59]

45 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Who did we trade to the Jays for Tellez? Trevor Richards, who put up a 5.34 ERA and a -0.8 WAR this past season, and Bowden Francis, who had an ERA of 6.59 this season in AAA. Meanwhile, we got a player who single handedly carried the offense in the 2021 NLDS, and then came back and hit 35 HRs this year.

 

35 HR's? He's a 0.9 WAR player. Chris Carter hit 41 bombs (also 0.9 WAR) for the Brewers and they didn't even bother to tender him a contract after that season. Let's not make Tellez out to be more than what he is.

 

[Jopal78]

53 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

 

Who did we trade to the Jays for Tellez? Trevor Richards, who put up a 5.34 ERA and a -0.8 WAR this past season, and Bowden Francis, who had an ERA of 6.59 this season in AAA. Meanwhile, we got a player who single handedly carried the offense in the 2021 NLDS, and then came back and hit 35 HRs this year. .

Right, I forgot all about the force he was in the NLDS when they scored all of 6 runs, and Tellez had two hits. Haha

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, Axman59 said:

35 HR's? He's a 0.9 WAR player. Chris Carter hit 41 bombs (also 0.9 WAR) for the Brewers and they didn't even bother to tender him a contract after that season. Let's not make Tellez out to be more than what he is.

 

I'm not trying to make him out to be a superstar or anything, but considering what we gave up and what he's provided for us, it was a good trade for the Brewers that helped the team. He's also due to be perhaps the biggest beneficiary in the majors of the shift ban.

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

Right, I forgot all about the force he was in the NLDS when they scored all of 6 runs, and Tellez had two hits. Haha

Two big home runs, with one being a game winner. Without him, that series isn't even close. You can laugh all you want, but that alone is more than what the Jays have gotten from that trade. 

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Renfroe may have been one and done, but we had absolutely no business getting him for JBJ. That was a pure master stroke by Stearns 

We didn't get him for JBJ, we got him for Binelas (23 on Boston's top 30, even after an underwhelming 2022 which included 25 HR) and Hamilton (70 SB last year in AA).

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

We didn't get him for JBJ, we got him for Binelas (23 on Boston's top 30, even after an underwhelming 2022 which included 25 HR) and Hamilton (70 SB last year in AA).

Correct. I should have said JBJ et al. Doesn't change the fact that it was a great trade...

[Robocaller]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Correct. I should have said JBJ et al. Doesn't change the fact that it was a great trade...

What might change it is if Binelas is in the majors in 2024 and hits 150 HR over his first 6 years.
Management did identify a guy whose team was trying to move him, and took advantage of that. Whether it was a great trade or not won't be known for a few years at least.

 

[Jopal78]

6 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Two big home runs, with one being a game winner. Without him, that series isn't even close. You can laugh all you want, but that alone is more than what the Jays have gotten from that trade. 

That series wasn’t close at all! Haha. Plus one of his “big homers” was in a loss…. Who cares.

[sveumrules]

On 12/8/2022 at 11:35 PM, rickh150 said:

My hope is that this slight, yet deep and troubling downturn with the team is over soon.

It’s a deep and troubling downturn to you that the Brewers missed the playoffs by two games to teams whose payrolls were $25M (STL), $50M (ATL), $95M (SD), $115M (PHI), and $140M (NY/LA) more than theirs?

I’d say that’s just baseball happening.

That the Brewers are even in a position to be competitive with teams that have much greater spending capacity on payroll (& everything else too) is much more of a success than missing out on the playoffs by two games after four straight appearances is any kind of failure.

The Giants went from an NL best 107 wins in 2021 to 81 wins in 2022 while spending $40M more than us on payroll.

The Red Sox went from the ALCS in 2021 to 5th in the ALE (below even the lowly Orioles) while spending $80M more than us on payroll.

The White Sox went from winning their division in 2021 down to 81 wins in 2022 while spending $75M more than us on payroll.

The Nationals have been the 2nd worst team in baseball the last three years since winning the WS, trading away Scherzer, Soto and Turner during that stretch.

I’d say those downturns are significantly deeper than the Brewers missing the playoffs by two games with the deck stacked against them.

[Brewcrew82]

6 hours ago, Robocaller said:

What might change it is if Binelas is in the majors in 2024 and hits 150 HR over his first 6 years.
Management did identify a guy whose team was trying to move him, and took advantage of that. Whether it was a great trade or not won't be known for a few years at least.

 

And the chances of that happening are.....?? Binelas' AA numbers don't exactly inspire a ton of confidence that he'll defy the odds.