Brewers (Burnes) vs Pirates (Oviedo): 7/1/23, 3:05pm

[Brock Beauchamp]

Last night's loss was brutal, no excuse to lose a 7-3 lead against the Pirates in late innings.

Get back to winning.

[treego14]

[wiguy94]

Just a reminder that the Cardinals gave up 5 years of Oviedo for 2 months of Quintana and Oviedo has already accumulated more fWAR than Quintana did as a Cardinal and would currently be their 2nd best SP lol.  

[sveumrules]

21 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Just a reminder that the Cardinals gave up 5 years of Oviedo for 2 months of Quintana and Oviedo has already accumulated more fWAR than Quintana did as a Cardinal and would currently be their 2nd best SP lol.  

4th best SP if they hadn’t dealt Gallen and Alcantara for Marcell Ozuna 

[BruisedCrew]

Whether you agree with him or not, Counsell had his reasons for not using Wilson, or someone other than Bush, in the ninth inning last night.

He said:

"We went for it in the Mets series. We used guys heavily. We need to get guys rest. Bryse is going to figure in the game tomorrow. Matt Bush is on the roster. He hasn't pitched in a while and he was fresh. It was his job to get the outs in the ninth and just couldn't get it."

It's apparent that Counsell really wants to give Williams, Payamps, Peguero, and Milner today off too if at all possible, and that Wilson will be the first reliever to follow Burnes. Ideally that would be no earlier than the 7th inning if Burnes could do what he is supposed to do. Then, depending on how the game is going, Wislon could finish or force the use of just one other reliever.

I tend to give the manager the benefit of the doubt on these things because he has a much greater feel for the pitchers' current status and long term prognosis than fans do. Some times fans seem to think that any pitcher who wasn't used the day before should be fully available and fresh as a daisy.

What the Brewers really need on occasion is a game where the offense puts up some early runs and adds on while the starter goes 6 or 7 innings (or, heaven forbid, 8) giving up no more than a run. An occasional coast to a 7-1 win would give the back end of the bullpen a chance to recharge. But the Brewers don't win very many without needing contributions from their top 3 or 4 relievers.

 

 

[treego14]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2023/07/01/milwaukee-brewers-drop-matt-bush-call-up-two-from-nashville/70374961007/

Bush is gone!

[wiguy94]

13 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

Whether you agree with him or not, Counsell had his reasons for not using Wilson, or someone other than Bush, in the ninth inning last night.

He said:

"We went for it in the Mets series. We used guys heavily. We need to get guys rest. Bryse is going to figure in the game tomorrow. Matt Bush is on the roster. He hasn't pitched in a while and he was fresh. It was his job to get the outs in the ninth and just couldn't get it."

It's apparent that Counsell really wants to give Williams, Payamps, Peguero, and Milner today off too if at all possible, and that Wilson will be the first reliever to follow Burnes. Ideally that would be no earlier than the 7th inning if Burnes could do what he is supposed to do. Then, depending on how the game is going, Wislon could finish or force the use of just one other reliever.

I tend to give the manager the benefit of the doubt on these things because he has a much greater feel for the pitchers' current status and long term prognosis than fans do. Some times fans seem to think that any pitcher who wasn't used the day before should be fully available and fresh as a daisy.

What the Brewers really need on occasion is a game where the offense puts up some early runs and adds on while the starter goes 6 or 7 innings (or, heaven forbid, 8) giving up no more than a run. An occasional coast to a 7-1 win would give the back end of the bullpen a chance to recharge. But the Brewers don't win very many without needing contributions from their top 3 or 4 relievers.

If you were to gripe about something, it would be using Wilson in the 8th inning down 7-2 against the Mets instead of Bush. Wilson is available to pitch last night if it wasn't for that inning. 

[treego14]

[BruisedCrew]

47 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

If you were to gripe about something, it would be using Wilson in the 8th inning down 7-2 against the Mets instead of Bush. Wilson is available to pitch last night if it wasn't for that inning. 

From Counsell’s comments I’m not sure that’s true. The problem was less that Wilson couldn’t have pitched last night, but that they wanted him fresh for today to be available as the first reliever in. Wilson probably would have gone in last night if the game had gone  to extra innings  

Regardless, second guessing a decision from three days earlier is something of a stretch. There was no way to know then that Miley would only go 4 innings on Wednesday and that Milner, Payamps, Peguero, and Williams would all be used on both Wednesday and Thursday (in addition to Wilson on Wednesday) in an effort to pull out close games.

As Counsell said, they went all in to win on Wednesday and Thursday. The price they paid was a thin pen on Friday, and even then they were within an out of pulling out that one. Peralta’s short start and Bush’s failures did them in.

 

 

 

[treego14]

13 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

From Counsell’s comments I’m not sure that’s true. The problem was less that Wilson couldn’t have pitched last night, but that they wanted him fresh for today to be available as the first reliever in. Wilson probably would have gone in last night if the game had gone  to extra innings  

Regardless, second guessing a decision from three days earlier is something of a stretch. There was no way to know then that Miley would only go 4 innings on Wednesday and that Milner, Payamps, Peguero, and Williams would all be used on both Wednesday and Thursday (in addition to Wilson on Wednesday) in an effort to pull out close games.

As Counsell said, they went all in to win on Wednesday and Thursday. The price they paid was a thin pen on Friday, and even then they were within an out of pulling out that one. Peralta’s short start and Bush’s failures did them in.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, BUT you have to grasp the win when it's available!

Wilson should have closed it out, NOT Bush!

You play to win every day when the win is on your racket!

Blowout games or when you are down by quite a bit?  Sure, you look for what's best in upcoming games, BUT that was not the case last night in Pittsburgh!

Counsell needs to confess his sins at least once!  He never does ... as far as I can tell.

Operate/Manage in the game you know about, Counsell ... not the game in the future you don't know about!

[wiguy94]

11 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

From Counsell’s comments I’m not sure that’s true. The problem was less that Wilson couldn’t have pitched last night, but that they wanted him fresh for today to be available as the first reliever in. Wilson probably would have gone in last night if the game had gone  to extra innings  

Regardless, second guessing a decision from three days earlier is something of a stretch. There was no way to know then that Miley would only go 4 innings on Wednesday and that Milner, Payamps, Peguero, and Williams would all be used on both Wednesday and Thursday (in addition to Wilson on Wednesday) in an effort to pull out close games.

As Counsell said, they went all in to win on Wednesday and Thursday. The price they paid was a thin pen on Friday, and even then they were within an out of pulling out that one. Peralta’s short start and Bush’s failures did them in.

If Wilson hadn't pitched in that 7-2 loss, he would have been available for both an inning last night and pitching today. I think it's a perfectly adequate gripe. Why is your 5th highest leverage pitcher throwing in the 8th down 5 runs and not Matt Bush the last guy in the bullpen?

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

From Counsell’s comments I’m not sure that’s true. 

 

 

 

Are you sure it's false? We're talking a managers' postgame presser here.

I think it's a very valid point. Regardless of how Counsell viewed the next few days, he had Bush available in a 7-2 game & used Wilson.

[BruisedCrew]

1 minute ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Are you sure it's false? We're talking a managers' postgame presser here.

I think it's a very valid point. Regardless of how Counsell viewed the next few days, he had Bush available in a 7-2 game & used Wilson.

If I’m not sure it’s true I think it follows that I’m not sure it’s false.

Like I said earlier I tend to give managers the benefit of the doubt that they know a lot more about using their bullpen in one game, one week, and over the course of the season than a bunch of posters on a message board who don’t have to deal with the consequences of any of their opinions or second guesses. 

 

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

If I’m not sure it’s true I think it follows that I’m not sure it’s false.

Like I said earlier I tend to give managers the benefit of the doubt that they know a lot more about using their bullpen in one game, one week, and over the course of the season than a bunch of posters on a message board who don’t have to deal with the consequences of any of their opinions or second guesses. 

 

 

We're talking about him using the very end of his bullpen with a 5 run deficit. It's next to impossible that there would have been any consequence. That's why you do it.

[BruisedCrew]

On Tuesday, Wilson hadn’t pitched since the previous Wednesday. At some point they want to give a pitcher some work to keep him from getting rusty.

You guys have no way of knowing if that inning on Tuesday had any impact on Wilson’s availability last night. Maybe after pitching two innings on Wednesday he reported on Friday that he was available if needed but could use another day to recover. 
 

Even though the posters here are all smarter than Counsell, they don’t necessarily have as much information as he and his coaches have. 

[LouisEly]

59 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

Regardless, second guessing a decision from three days earlier is something of a stretch. There was no way to know then that Miley would only go 4 innings on Wednesday

Well, Miley only threw 77 pitches in his first game back and 69 in his second.  I don't think it was a stretch to think that he probably couldn't go more than five innings.

[BruisedCrew]

22 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Well, Miley only threw 77 pitches in his first game back and 69 in his second.  I don't think it was a stretch to think that he probably couldn't go more than five innings.

Going into his start Tuesday, In his 9 previous starts, not including the one where he left with an injury, Miley went 7 innings once, 6 innings four times (including his most recent start) and 5 innings 4 times. 

There was no reason to expect that he would be hit with an uncharacteristic bout of wildness and only make it through 4 innings. 

[BruisedCrew]

On another note, today’s game is delayed with thunderstorms in the area. 

[treego14]

2 hours ago, treego14 said:

3 hits yesterday, AND Owen Miller gets benched!

Go figure!

[treego14]

Good job, Padres!

[BruisedCrew]

The Braves are ridiculous. 
 

Against good young pitcher Eury Perez, who came into the game with a 2.10 ERA, their first 8 batters delivered 6 runs with 2HR to lead off the game followed by 2 singles and 3 doubles. 
 

This coming after a 16-4 win last night. 

[treego14]

9 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

The Braves are ridiculous. 
 

Against good young pitcher Eury Perez, who came into the game with a 2.10 ERA, their first 8 batters delivered 6 runs with 2HR to lead off the game followed by 2 singles and 3 doubles. 
 

This coming after a 16-4 win last night. 

All-Star Orlando Arcia leading the charge?

[Brewcrew82]

Time for a Rowdy pop-up or DP...

[Brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Time for a Rowdy pop-up or DP...

Reverse psychology ftw. 

[treego14]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Reverse psychology ftw. 

It worked!

Sac Fly is a welcome thing for now!