Brewers (Woodruff) vs White Sox (Scholten): 8/12/23, 6:10pm

[82brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Just saw that Mets were gauging the market for Alonzo at the deadline. You would be surprised at who was available for the right price. He would have moved the needle.

Then he would have moved the needle for any team, yet none of them acquired him because the price was so steep that not one single team thought it was worth it.  He was never really available.

[Bulldogboy]

Just now, 82brewcrew82 said:

Then he would have moved the needle for any team, yet none of them acquired him because the price was so steep that not one single team thought it was worth it.  He was never really available.

Ok. Thanks. Let's win the central!! Lol

[82brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Ok. Thanks. Let's win the central!! Lol

that isn't a response, but yeah, that's kinda how it starts, LOL.

[Bulldogboy]

Just now, 82brewcrew82 said:

That isn't a response.

You made a statement that was nonsensical. Gauging interest doesn't mean they for sure were going to deal him however my point is we have no idea what they could have made happen given what they have to deal. My question isn't going to get answered it appears so I will leave it for another day. I gather there is no plan outside of winning the central getting bounced and then watching Burnes and Woodruff pitch for the Yankees and Dodgers the next season. Not awesome but I guess that's all we can do according to everyone here. 

[Jopal78]

22 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

The Brewers won in 2021 because of their SP. Outside of 2021 they have not won on the back of their SP.

You have been told his about 100 times at this point and you continue to spew the misinformation. I wonder why.

Oh, you’re right they slugged their way to the title in 2018 with they middle of the pack offense (7th in RS) and snatched they wild card on the back of their offense (9th in RS). Misinformation… gimme a break.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 minutes ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

Then he would have moved the needle for any team, yet none of them acquired him because the price was so steep that not one single team thought it was worth it.  He was never really available.

Yep. You always check, just to see if there are any Prellers out there.

So, yet another day of being justified for not touching the IGT while the game is going on. Afterwards though, it can be a fun diversion, if you like slapstick. The final pie in the face is usually the first mention of Going For It, or it's near-sighted cousin, Moving The Needle.

 

[sveumrules]

27 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

The Brewers win now because of their starting pitching.

This year they are at…
RP: +6.79 WPA (1st)
Def; +47 DRS (2nd)
SP: 9.1 rWAR (10th)
Hit: 89 wRC+ (25th)

Last year it was…
Def: +53 DRS (7th)
Hit: 104 wRC+ (11th)
SP: 13.0 rWAR (14th)
RP: +1.68 WPA (16th)

In 2021 it was…
SP: 22.3 rWAR (2nd)
RP: +5.90 WPA (5th)
Def: +61 DRS (5th)
Hit: 98 wRC+ (19th)

2019 breakdown…
RP: +5.22 WPA (6th)
Hit: 102 wRC+ (12th)
Def: +26 DRS (13th)
SP: 9.9 rWAR (16th)

and 2018…
Def: +121 DRS (2nd)
RP: +5.65 WPA (6th)
Hit: 105 wRC+ (10th)
SP: 11.2 rWAR (15th)

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think it's pretty ironic the same people mentioning "needle moving" players apparently being traded, shopped, or at minimum made available for trade on the Mets this deadline fail to also acknowledge the fact that the Mets basically followed their approach to going "all in" last offseason for the sake of winning a title...and they were the largest trade deadline sellers.

 

[82brewcrew82]

3 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

You made a statement that was nonsensical. Gauging interest doesn't mean they for sure were going to deal him however my point is we have no idea what they could have made happen given what they have to deal. My question isn't going to get answered it appears so I will leave it for another day. I gather there is no plan outside of winning the central getting bounced and then watching Burnes and Woodruff pitch for the Yankees and Dodgers the next season. Not awesome but I guess that's all we can do according to everyone here. 

Not remotely true.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean others don't have other opinions that counter yours.  Again, under your philosophy there would be not Burnes and Woodruff to watch walk because in your world, you trade prospects for "needle movers".  No Woodruff, No Burnes, No Williams, No Frelick.  You have yet to address this little hole in your whole argument.

Again, the plan is to develop the talent they have which at this point looks to be more substantial than at any other point in the teams history.  Sounds good to me.

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

Oh, you’re right they slugged their way to the title in 2018 with they middle of the pack offense (7th in RS) and snatched they wild card on the back of their offense (9th in RS). Misinformation… gimme a break.

Using NL for 18, 19, 21 because no universal DH

2018 NL SP Ranks - 7th in ERA, 12th in FIP

2019 NL SP Ranks - 9th in ERA, 10th in FIP

2021 NL SP Ranks - 2nd in ERA, 1st in FIP

2022 MLB SP Ranks - 12th in ERA, 11th in FIP

2023 MLB SP Ranks - 11th in ERA, 18th in FIP

So please Jopal tell me again how the Brewers have won on the back of SP in this competitive window.

[82brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I think it's pretty ironic the same people mentioning "needle moving" players apparently being traded, shopped, or at minimum made available for trade on the Mets this deadline fail to also acknowledge the fact that the Mets basically followed their approach to going "all in" last offseason for the sake of winning a title...and they were the largest trade deadline sellers.

 

Facts!

[82brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Using NL for 18, 19, 21 because no universal DH

2018 NL SP Ranks - 7th in ERA, 12th in FIP

2019 NL SP Ranks - 9th in ERA, 10th in FIP

2021 NL SP Ranks - 2nd in ERA, 1st in FIP

2022 MLB SP Ranks - 12th in ERA, 11th in FIP

2023 MLB SP Ranks - 11th in ERA, 18th in FIP

So please Jopal tell me again how the Brewers have won on the back of SP in this competitive window.

More Facts!

[Bulldogboy]

1 minute ago, 82brewcrew82 said:

Not remotely true.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean others don't have other opinions that counter yours.  Again, under your philosophy there would be not Burnes and Woodruff to watch walk because in your world, you trade prospects for "needle movers".  No Woodruff, No Burnes, No Williams, No Frelick.  You have yet to address this little hole in your whole argument.

Again, the plan is to develop the talent they have which at this point looks to be more substantial than at any other point in the teams history.  Sounds good to me.

I'm not going back in time. I'm talking right now 2023. Nobody has yet to address winning a world series in the time period of having Burnes and Woodruff. Now if your answer is it cannot and will not be done say that. Making up stuff like Robert Gasser is going to make us forget Burnes and Ashby is the new Woodruff is nonsense. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Aside from 2021, the Brewers' starting pitching production has been the definition of average despite the perception it's generationally great...their bullpen and specifically late inning relief in close/winnable games has been the X-factor that has given this team an extended competitive window.  That has coupled with decent offensive teams in 2018 and 2021, which to date have been their best shots at winning a WS.  2018 they really didn't even have a starting rotation to speak of - they just leaned on a slew of multi inning relievers that actually included young Burnes, Woody, and Peralta...Chacin was their "horse", and their rotation was made up of journeyman who could at least get them through batting orders twice.

[wiguy94]

Just now, Bulldogboy said:

I'm not going back in time. I'm talking right now 2023. Nobody has yet to address winning a world series in the time period of having Burnes and Woodruff. Now if your answer is it cannot and will not be done say that. Making up stuff like Robert Gasser is going to make us forget Burnes and Ashby is the new Woodruff is nonsense. 

Absolutely nobody said "Robert Gasser is going to make us forget Burnes and Ashby is the new Woodruff"...you're just making things up which again is a gigantic bad faith red flag. 

[adambr2]

1 hour ago, Bulldogboy said:

So I ask again. What is the plan? Shrug your shoulders let the pitchers walk then win 84 games a year and bow out in round one for the next five years? How do you win a world series? That's the goal.

Try to be competitive enough to make the playoffs every year for as long as possible and hope they get hot at the right time one of those years and ride it all the way. That's the plan. 

We will always be at a competitive disadvantage. I'm not saying we can never win a World Series, but we will always be at a competitive disadvantage.  That's the reality. 

Hopefully you can see the Brewers win a WS in your lifetime but it won't come without luck. There's nothing we could have done this year to make us more statistically likely to win it all than the Braves, and probably the Dodgers. Nothing.  And then you're mortgaging future years just for a little better chance against teams that still have the edge. 

 

 

 

 

[Bulldogboy]

8 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I think it's pretty ironic the same people mentioning "needle moving" players apparently being traded, shopped, or at minimum made available for trade on the Mets this deadline fail to also acknowledge the fact that the Mets basically followed their approach to going "all in" last offseason for the sake of winning a title...and they were the largest trade deadline sellers.

 

The Mets and Brewers have roughly the same chance to win a World series. At least they went for it. I'm guessing Stearns will make a difference. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

27 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

Just saw that Mets were gauging the market for Alonzo at the deadline. You would be surprised at who was available for the right price. He would have moved the needle.

You ready to give up Misiorowski for 1.3 seasons of moving the needle?

There's a reason why the guy wasn't traded. If we're dealing in purely hypotheticals, literally every player in baseball could have been acquired by the Brewers.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, Bulldogboy said:

The Mets and Brewers have roughly the same chance to win a World series.

[Bulldogboy]

2 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Absolutely nobody said "Robert Gasser is going to make us forget Burnes and Ashby is the new Woodruff"...you're just making things up which again is a gigantic bad faith red flag. 

You said they have plenty of quality pitching on the way so who needs those guys. Keep everyone trade nobody and ride with prospects. Bad call.

[wiguy94]

5 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Aside from 2021, the Brewers' starting pitching production has been the definition of average...their bullpen and specifically late inning relief in close/winnable games has been the X-factor that has given this team an extended competitive window.  That has coupled with decent offensive teams in 2018 and 2021, which to date have been their best shots at winning a WS.  2018 they really didn't even have a starting rotation to speak of - they just leaned on a slew of multi inning relievers that actually included young Burnes, Woody, and Peralta...Chacin was their "horse", and their rotation was made up of journeyman who could at least get them through batting orders twice.

Exactly.

2018 - Young guys were all breaking in and not established SP

2019 - Young guys still establishing themselves, Burnes with a horrible year

2020 - COVID shortened season

2021 - Burnes, Woodruff, Freddy were all elite. Lauer and Houser were elite for 4/5 SP. Anderson was a quality 6th SP. Unfortunately offense went cold in September and October

2022 - Burnes, Woodruff were great. Freddy and Houser were both injured a lot. Lauer was solid. Ashby was alright trying to establish himself as a SP. Alexander was horrible.

2023 - Burnes has been good not great. Freddy has been average not good. Woodruff on IL most of season. Lauer in AAA. Houser injured and bouncing between pen and rotation. 

Outside of 2021 this generational pitching staff hasn't been generational.

 

[Bulldogboy]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

You ready to give up Misiorowski for 1.3 seasons of moving the needle?

There's a reason why the guy wasn't traded. If we're dealing in purely hypotheticals, literally every player in baseball could have been acquired by the Brewers.

Please spell out the plan. I ask one last time or you just waiting for the next Robin Yount jersey give away?

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

The Mets and Brewers have roughly the same chance to win a World series. At least they went for it. I'm guessing Stearns will make a difference. 

So what about Stearns'/Arnold's approach on how to build rosters in Milwaukee that you apparently don't think is enough to win a WS do you see him changing to make that difference in Gotham?  

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, Bulldogboy said:

You said they have plenty of quality pitching on the way so who needs those guys. Keep everyone trade nobody and ride with prospects. Bad call.

Now show me where I said what you said I did. Give it up. This bad faith arguing has to be tiresome even for you at this point.

[adambr2]

48 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

You might be right about the prospects, but you’re also kidding yourself if you think a once in a lifetime duo of aces leave and the Brewers fortunes do not simultaneously take a tumble. 
 

The Brewers win now because of their starting pitching. 15 years ago I saw what happens when you try to win with a set of good hitters and no starting pitching: you tread water at .500 or trade off the next generation for starting pitching.

They have basically not had Woodruff or Ashby this year and are still in first place. 

Yeah, it's going to suck but they will get Ashby back, Gasser and Rodriguez look promising and they have some pieces to give them better offense to support them. Of course it is going to hurt but Hook deserves more credit than he gets for the pitching development. They will be ok.