NL Wild Card Game 2 - Diamondbacks (Gallen) vs Brewers (Peralta): 10/4/23, 6:08pm

[Joseph Zarr]

IF Counsell is in fact leaving, the one guy organizationally I'd want to lead the shift to the young Brewers takeover would be the Mudcats' Victor Estevez.

I absolutely love the way he handles games. It has a less than 1% chance of happening. BUT, this is the kind of thinking I want to see. Outside the box. Youth driven. Miles to go and we shall see. Lucky for me, I can track Estevez's results this winter when he manages the 'Escogido Leones' in the Dominican Winter League. He's a rising star.

[Jim French Stepstool]

17 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

When you get to the playoffs you are stacking blue chips against blue chips and we will almost always be on the short end. 

 

True, which is why they're constructed the way they are. Run prevention. It failed them this week. I think this front office knows exactly what they're doing, from the drafting to building the farm to (most of) the player acquisitions.

[Sixtolezcano]

1 minute ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

We are mind-melding.

The Twins did that this year. They looked so loose and ready these last two days. Everyone focused and locked it and yet still having fun. Brewers could use a Carlos Gomez on this roster. Somebody so gutsy he's probably a little bit foolish, but he sure as heck is confident.

Credit to Tyrone Taylor. He played like that guy and has been for a while.

The question is will Attanasio et.al. have the guts to actually invest in the players rather than a new scoreboard, remodeled stadium, etc. to squeeze out a few xtra bucks. The Twins actually spend money on Correa, Buxton (although that one is still up for debate) and the starting pitching. Small market teams like the Twins have proven when you take a chance and invest in players, rather than focus on making a profit it.actually works out. It wasn’t that long ago that the Pohlad family was the joke of MLB. But bringing in an intelligent FO and actually taking a chance and spending those millions on players rather than making a profit can actually be a smart business move.

[Jim French Stepstool]

40 minutes ago, damuelle said:

I appreciate you CC, but this defeat goes in your lap. You made the choices to let Winker bat, let Frelick face a lefty (instead of Wiemer or Perkins) and let Monasterio face a righty (instead of Caratini). Sorry to the team and fans. Thank you all for a great season nonetheless.

Actually thought it was going to be Miller right there. There was a time 3-4 weeks ago I wouldn't have had anyone hit for him, vs any pitcher. Sals' recent struggles were more damaging than maybe any other single factor re the offense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

13 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

The question is will Attanasio et.al. have the guts to actually invest in the players rather than a new scoreboard, remodeled stadium, etc. to squeeze out a few xtra bucks. The Twins actually spend money on Correa, Buxton (although that one is still up for debate) and the starting pitching. Small market teams like the Twins have proven when you take a chance and invest in players, rather than focus on making a profit it.actually works out. It wasn’t that long ago that the Pohlad family was the joke of MLB. But bringing in an intelligent FO and actually taking a chance and spending those millions on players rather than making a profit can actually be a smart business move.

I guess I missed where the twins just won the world series... its greatthey beat an uneven blue jays team that found their way to the 3rd wildcard in a league that was full of godawful teams this season.  Didnt the twins just get done losing like 50 straight playoff games yesterday that were scattered between more than a decade of seasons because they've been pretty awful?  Buxton and Lewis were #1 overall draft picks they landed because they sucked at the MLB level bad enough to earn them.  Correa is a career ending injury just waiting to happen well before his contract runs out, too.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I guess I missed where the twins just won the world series...i guess its fun they beat an eneven blue jays team that found their way to the 3rd wildcard in a league that was full of godawful teams this season.  Didnt the twins just get done losing like 50 straight playoff games yesterday that were scattered between more than a decade of seasons because they've been pretty awful.  Buxton and Lewis were #1 overall draft picks they landed because they sucked at the MLB level bad enough to earn them.  Correa is a career ending injury just waiting to happen well before his contract runs out, too.

Yep. They're doing pretty well & certainly in the "right" division to do so, but I wouldn't anoint them as some kind of model to follow. Minnesota pitched well the last two days. Our "ace" was hardly that, Peralta lost his edge after five, and the best one of the "big three" was unavailable.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

4 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I guess I missed where the twins just won the world series... its greatthey beat an uneven blue jays team that found their way to the 3rd wildcard in a league that was full of godawful teams this season.  Didnt the twins just get done losing like 50 straight playoff games yesterday that were scattered between more than a decade of seasons because they've been pretty awful?  Buxton and Lewis were #1 overall draft picks they landed because they sucked at the MLB level bad enough to earn them.  Correa is a career ending injury just waiting to happen well before his contract runs out, too.

I don't disagree with this overall. Believe me. I'd rather have our FO. But that team has an attitude and feel to it that matches the moment. I'd like the Brewers to find their way to that feeling. I think they will, but it has to start this offseason and be done without sacrificing long-term value.

[Jim French Stepstool]

27 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

We also had a couple of times where we had three hits in an inning and still didn't score because this team had virtually no power.

Power is nice. But just a single in a couple of those instances would've been more than good enough.

[wibadgers23]

30 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I need to see one of our hitting prospects actually hit at the major league level before I will believe its going to happen.

Yeah I wasn’t overly impressed with any of the rookies, Frelick included who was an absolute soft-contact machine. Hoping for big improvements next year from that group or it could be a LONG year.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

58 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

I don't blame anyone either, and I like CC. Always have.

He was bad this series, though. Not the reason they lost, and he didn't have a lot of good options offensively. But you've got to at least push a few more buttons when your team struggles so much to score.

All the buttons suck. We can blame this or that, but this team just doesn't have the talent offensively to win in October. They are a 50-win NBA team without a superstar. You have literally no chance if that's what you are. 

I don't say this to demean their accomplishments because winning at all is a major accomplishment for Milwaukee. But they aren't going to get over this hump as constructed. Not an attack on them, but I'm not sure how much they care.  Winning 90 a year is good business. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

26 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

IF Counsell is in fact leaving, the one guy organizationally I'd want to lead the shift to the young Brewers takeover would be the Mudcats' Victor Estevez.

I absolutely love the way he handles games. It has a less than 1% chance of happening. BUT, this is the kind of thinking I want to see. Outside the box. Youth driven. Miles to go and we shall see. Lucky for me, I can track Estevez's results this winter when he manages the 'Escogido Leones' in the Dominican Winter League. He's a rising star.

A better than 1% chance--and someone I really like--is Quintin Berry. But CC would have to give up the job first, and of course the speculation will run like wildfire because internet.

[Sixtolezcano]

The thing is all Attanasio is interested in is maximizing a profit. He isn’t that interested in winning baseball games. He only investments are associated with improving the “fan experience” when the fans want to improve player investment. This mess will only change when Attanasio sells the team to an  owner that wants to win a World Series.

[Fear The Chorizo]

11 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

I don't disagree with this overall. Believe me. I'd rather have our FO. But that team has an attitude and feel to it that matches the moment. I'd like the Brewers to find their way to that feeling. I think they will, but it has to start this offseason and be done without sacrificing long-term value.

The twins won 87 regular season games in a division that had two teams lose over 100 and nobody else finish anywhere close to 0.500.  That's actually really difficult to do, and it wasn't until their divisional opponents fell on their faces that the Twins were on a firm path to over 0.500 themselves.

They won two low scoring games at home in October day baseball windy weather in minnesota that limited offense.  I wouldn't exactly call any of that due to some mystical attitude. 

It sucks the Brewers lost, and I'm frustrated with how this organization seemingly puts all its offseason eggs in the basket of run prevention/positional versatility on defense - potentially in the mold of their manager for all I know.  I hope it's time they incorporate more of a focus on offensive versatility while keeping a few positions dedicated to premium defenders.  There has to be a better way to build a well-rounded roster to win postseason games more consistently than just throwing money at guys and saying, "well we tried"  ...there are plenty of teams that spend like idiots and they're all home on couches right now, too.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

All the buttons suck. We can blame this or that, but this team just doesn't have the talent offensively to win in October. They are a 50-win NBA team without a superstar. You have literally no chance if that's what you are. 

I don't say this to demean their accomplishments because winning at all is a major accomplishment for Milwaukee. But they aren't going to get over this hump as constructed. Not an attack on them, but I'm not sure how much they care.  Winning 90 a year is good business. 

Not disagreeing. But you don't have literally no-chance. The Brewers were favorites in this game. Even down 5-2 in the 8th, the Frelick AB was a moment where you have to take a shot. You've got Weimer or Miller there to use. It's not that tough. When all options are bad, just seize the platoon advantage and hope.

It's not the reason they lost. But I think CC was real shy about taking out Frelick and Turang this series, both in key spots, facing lefties. There's always hindsight involved there, but both times he let the kids bat. Both times it didn't work.

It's all pretty minor in the scheme of things. I'm here for it if CC wants to come back. The prospects are going to make this team fun either way. But I'm ready for the next era because change is good, and after nearly a decade with one manager, it's maybe time to try something a little different.

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

The thing is all Attanasio is interested in is maximizing a profit. He isn’t that interested in winning baseball games. He only investments are associated with improving the “fan experience” when the fans want to improve player investment. This mess will only change when Attanasio sells the team to an  owner that wants to win a World Series.

This is so incredibly wrong. Brewers have dipped millions of dollars into player development. They were one of the first teams to spend a boatload of money on a pitching lab. 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

6 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

The twins won 87 regular season games in a division that had two teams lose over 100 and nobody else finish anywhere close to 0.500.  That's actually really difficult to do, and it wasn't until their divisional opponents fell on their faces that the Twins were on a firm path to over 0.500 themselves.

They won two low scoring games at home in October day baseball windy weather in minnesota that limited offense.  I wouldn't exactly call any of that due to some mystical attitude. 

It sucks the Brewers lost, and I'm frustrated with how this organization seemingly puts all its offseason eggs in the basket of run prevention/positional versatility on offense - potentially in the mold of their manager for all I know.  I hope it's time they incorporate more of a focus on offensive versatility while keeping a few positions dedicated to premium defenders.  There has to be a better way to build a well-rounded roster.

Fair enough. Like I said, I think the Brewers are in a better place, both in terms of talent and leadership.

I thought the Twins looked a lot looser and ready than the Brewers did in big moments, but that's a subjective judgment. Brewers also got unlucky in important ways. On the other hand, they were also playing in a pretty friendly run environment (AmFAm w/ a closed roof) and couldn't get a big hit. One home run in two games doesn't cut it, so I'm with you. We need to balance out the roster in ways that help boost the offense.

The other thing I'll add is this. Winning by run prevention is not a very fun way to win. It makes for a lot of stressful games, a lot of low-scoring games, a lot of really frustrating offensive half-innings and terrifying defensive ones. I'd like to see this team go down 4-0 on occasion and not feel like the game is over, even it means falling behind a little more often.

[willie key]

By the sixth inning everyone was talking about next year roster construction and the owner and small market.       What an abject disaster.    The team didn’t even get through two games before everybody had enough

 

****** depressing 

[Fear The Chorizo]

6 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

This is so incredibly wrong. Brewers have dipped millions of dollars into player development. They were one of the first teams to spend a boatload of money on a pitching lab. 

And if they didn't, posters wouldn't be able to gripe about the owner being cheap by not shelling out $400m to keep Burnes around until he's 40 yrs old.  

[BrewerFan]

5 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

The thing is all Attanasio is interested in is maximizing a profit. He isn’t that interested in winning baseball games. He only investments are associated with improving the “fan experience” when the fans want to improve player investment. This mess will only change when Attanasio sells the team to an  owner that wants to win a World Series.

Again, it seems pretty clear the easiest place to vent is the guy who owns ~1/3rd of the team and complaining he's tried to "improve the fan experience."

Obviously you'd want to maximize revenue...

The problem isn't the 140M payroll...waiting for some fairy tale where a guy worth 20 billion comes along and buys the team seems...fantastical. 

The problem is the Brewers offensive prospects didn't line up. It's that simple. They couldn't hit. 

 

Just give me the guy they really should have signed that would have changed the Brewers offensive outlook?

[BrewerFan]

16 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

All the buttons suck. We can blame this or that, but this team just doesn't have the talent offensively to win in October. They are a 50-win NBA team without a superstar. You have literally no chance if that's what you are. 

I don't say this to demean their accomplishments because winning at all is a major accomplishment for Milwaukee. But they aren't going to get over this hump as constructed. Not an attack on them, but I'm not sure how much they care.  Winning 90 a year is good business. 

Right. I do find the "I'd rather not be in the playoffs than lose in the 1st round," line kinda funny.

 

I remember the fans who were happy they went .500. This team needs some of the young guys like Turang, Wiemer, Mitchell, Frelick to just grow, the premiere prospects like Chourio, Quero, Misiorowski to hit and they need their young pitching to step up. It's just kinda that simple. 

 

They could have and should have played better and this is extremely frustrating, but they do have help coming. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

19 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Yeah I wasn’t overly impressed with any of the rookies, Frelick included who was an absolute soft-contact machine. Hoping for big improvements next year from that group or it could be a LONG year.

The DP he hit into today was clocked at something over 100MPH. He hits the ball more than hard enough. He had a really impressive stretch marred by a 3-4 week stretch where he was really poor, at the worst possible time. When you've put in all of 2 or 3 months vs big league pitching, it happens. It would be an upset if it didn't.

Certainly there's no guarantee of prospects maturing into difference-makers. that's why you build depth in numbers throughout the system. it's especially important here but it's vital even in NY or LA, too.

[Sixtolezcano]

18 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

This is so incredibly wrong. Brewers have dipped millions of dollars into player development. They were one of the first teams to spend a boatload of money on a pitching lab. 

So how much money did Attanasio spend on the “pitching lab”? Or are you just making all of this up?

[Sixtolezcano]

14 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Again, it seems pretty clear the easiest place to vent is the guy who owns ~1/3rd of the team and complaining he's tried to "improve the fan experience."

Obviously you'd want to maximize revenue...

The problem isn't the 140M payroll...waiting for some fairy tale where a guy worth 20 billion comes along and buys the team seems...fantastical. 

The problem is the Brewers offensive prospects didn't line up. It's that simple. They couldn't hit. 

 

Just give me the guy they really should have signed that would have changed the Brewers offensive outlook?

Correa replacing Adames.

[LouisEly]

1 minute ago, BrewerFan said:

They could have and should have played better and this is extremely frustrating, but they do have help coming. 

They have the #2 farm system in baseball.  Add to that the talent they'll get back when trading Burnes and the future is really bright.  (And Adames, while not as good as last year, was still a 3.4 fWAR player, the same as 2021.  He has more trade value than most think.)

Losing Burnes - given the way that he performed yesterday - is that really a loss that can't be overcome?

Chourio, Black, Quero, Misiorowski, and Gasser are some of the top prospects in baseball.  Add to that Wilken and Carlos F. Rodriguez, plus the young core in Contreras/Peralta and (hopefully) adjustments/improvements by Uribe/Frelick/Mitchell/Turang/Wiemer and a healthy Ashby.  There's a lot of talent in the organization.

[Sixtolezcano]

20 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Again, it seems pretty clear the easiest place to vent is the guy who owns ~1/3rd of the team and complaining he's tried to "improve the fan experience."

Obviously you'd want to maximize revenue...

The problem isn't the 140M payroll...waiting for some fairy tale where a guy worth 20 billion comes along and buys the team seems...fantastical. 

The problem is the Brewers offensive prospects didn't line up. It's that simple. They couldn't hit. 

 

Just give me the guy they really should have signed that would have changed the Brewers offensive outlook?

The fantasy is thinking a $140 million payroll is enough to actually have a realistic shot of really competing for a World Series title.