Game 15: Packers @ Panthers - Sunday, Dec. 24th 12 PM

[OldHeidelberg]

MLF was talking about complimentary football and the 3 and outs in the 4th. That doesn’t excuse the defense but multiple GB head coaches have forced the defense to win it( or lose it)like that. 

 

 

 

[homer]

31 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Apparently it's the offense's fault the defense played bad.

 

I would like to see the exact quote but I think he was saying the offense didn't do the D any favors with those three and outs. 

 

 

[yourout]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

This game is exactly why Barry should've NEVER BEEN HIRED.

Fixed.

[HarryDoyle]

11 minutes ago, homer said:

I would like to see the exact quote but I think he was saying the offense didn't do the D any favors..

 

 

Or maybe the defense should find a way to get off the field instead of giving up 14 play 8+ minute touchdown drives. Find a best friend that loves you as much as MLF loves Joe Barry.

[HarryDoyle]

2 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Or maybe the defense should find a way to get off the field instead of giving up 14 play 8+ minute touchdown drives. Find a best friend that loves you as much as MLF loves Joe Barry.

Or maybe MLF shouldn't go into prevent offense mode up 14 points with the defense we have. Where was Jones for a good chunk of that second half?

[OldHeidelberg]

I hadn’t thought it through before but totally happy we get a meaningful game against the Vikes On New Year’s Eve. House money…🙂

[BrewerFan]

34 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

Or maybe the defense should find a way to get off the field instead of giving up 14 play 8+ minute touchdown drives. Find a best friend that loves you as much as MLF loves Joe Barry.

He runs the offense, he's just taking accountability...I wouldn't look much deeper into THIS specific statement.

I still think he's gone, but this was a meaningless quote to me other than to take some of the public scrutiny off MLF.

[adambr2]

I don't know. Can you imagine if you're an offensive player on the Packers, your defense hasn't done you any favors in a month, you put up 33 points against one of the top defenses in the NFL, you put a game winning drive together with 19 seconds left, and if you had left 20 seconds on the clock your defense STILL would have blown it, to the worst offense in football, and your HC spits out a quote like THAT? 

I think I'd take that pretty personally. 

[areacodes]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

I don't know. Can you imagine if you're an offensive player on the Packers, your defense hasn't done you any favors in a month, you put up 33 points against one of the top defenses in the NFL, you put a game winning drive together with 19 seconds left, and if you had left 20 seconds on the clock your defense STILL would have blown it, to the worst offense in football, and your HC spits out a quote like THAT? 

I think I'd take that pretty personally. 

I’d rather have the offensive players take it personally that they had two three and out's.

It is a team game and the offense lost plenty of games early this year when the D actually played well.  

We’re not a good enough team for one side of the ball to start thinking they’ve done more for team success over the course of the whole year than the other.

[adambr2]

5 minutes ago, areacodes said:

I’d rather have the offensive players take it personally that they had two three and out's.

It is a team game and the offense lost plenty of games early this year when the D actually played well.  

We’re not a good enough team for one side of the ball to start thinking they’ve done more for team success over the course of the whole year than the other.

Except the difference is that this was supposed to be a developmental year for the offense, and they've showed signs of growth, while the defense has been a heavily invested work in progress for years and yet, led by a buffoon, continues to get worse and worse. 

[wildcat83]

Jaire invited himself to the captains meeting even though he’s not an official captain.  Won the toss and said we wanted to play defense instead of defer.  Thankfully the official clarified.  Very odd for a guy just to go join the captains meeting on his own.  That type of stuff usually taken pretty seriously and is kind of an honor for NFL games.  Doubt that sat well with coaches or teammates when he’s suited up for the first time in like 6 weeks…

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39179795/green-bay-packers-overcome-mistake-coin-toss-win

[areacodes]

17 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Except the difference is that this was supposed to be a developmental year for the offense, and they've showed signs of growth, while the defense has been a heavily invested work in progress for years and yet, led by a buffoon, continues to get worse and worse. 

I’m not trying to defend the defense.  It was (and has been) hot garbage and as soon as the season is done, I hope Barry’s ass is fired.

I’d still rather have offensive players who would be more pissed at themselves for the three and out’s and how that contributed to the crappiness of the defense than worrying about their coach pointing it out.

[young guns]

1 hour ago, wildcat83 said:

Jaire invited himself to the captains meeting even though he’s not an official captain.  Won the toss and said we wanted to play defense instead of defer.  Thankfully the official clarified.  Very odd for a guy just to go join the captains meeting on his own.  That type of stuff usually taken pretty seriously and is kind of an honor for NFL games.  Doubt that sat well with coaches or teammates when he’s suited up for the first time in like 6 weeks…

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39179795/green-bay-packers-overcome-mistake-coin-toss-win

"I said, 'I want our defense to be out there,' and they all looked at me like I was crazy," Alexander said. "I'm like, I mean it's pretty simple what I said, like I want the defense to be out there. They like, 'You mean defer?' and I'm like, 'Yeah, I guess.'"

 

This right here is a problem to me.  How does he not really seem to understand the semantics of a thing that happens every game and the consequences of screwing it up.

[Matt Breen]

5 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Apparently it's the offense's fault the defense played bad.

 

I really don't comment much about this, but the lack of accountability from ML regarding the defense is terrible. He hired his friend and has kept him for how freaking long - to bad results. Just ridiculous.

[HarryDoyle]

27 minutes ago, reillymcshane said:

I really don't comment much about this, but the lack of accountability from ML regarding the defense is terrible. He hired his friend and has kept him for how freaking long - to bad results. Just ridiculous.

And does anyone really have any faith that LeFleur will bring in a competent DC to replace Barry or will he just hire another one of his buddies? Barry has been a nepo hire his entire coaching career, at least as a DC.

[adambr2]

9 hours ago, areacodes said:

I’m not trying to defend the defense.  It was (and has been) hot garbage and as soon as the season is done, I hope Barry’s ass is fired.

I’d still rather have offensive players who would be more pissed at themselves for the three and out’s and how that contributed to the crappiness of the defense than worrying about their coach pointing it out.

I'm sure they are. Any competitive player on offense doesn't want to be producing 3 and outs in the 4th quarter of a big game and I'm sure the guys on offense are more critical of themselves than anyone for it. 

It just rubs me the wrong way a little for MLF to specifically call them out for it when the problem was glaringly obvious and, IMO, was a clear effort to deflect some of the well deserved continued backlash on Joe Barry. 

There's an enormous problem and Matt not only isn't doing anything about it but in essence is trying to gaslight us into thinking it isn't there. 

[adambr2]

12 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

And does anyone really have any faith that LeFleur will bring in a competent DC to replace Barry or will he just hire another one of his buddies? Barry has been a nepo hire his entire coaching career, at least as a DC.

If it's any consolation, at least Barry wasn't the first choice, Jim Leonhard was. Why he pivoted to the most boring and bland hire he could have possibly made after Leonhard turned him down, I'll never know, but at least we know he's capable of going in a completely different direction next time. 

[igor67]

When was the last time MLF had something critical to say about the defense?

Let's look at offense for the season

Love Yards per game is ranked 15th so right in the middle his QBR is also 15th, but 12th in points per game

Defense is 18th in Points per game and 23rd in yards/game

 

That difference isn't quite as big as I might have guessed, but as others have said one unit started slowly as expected and has shown improvement and the other languishes after starting OK.

Late edit DVOA rankings place the offense 10th and the defense 30th. That sounds about right.

[OldHeidelberg]

Not much controversy on the Doubs catch this morning other than some sour grapes from our old friend Thielen. I used to really despise replay but the NFL has improved it to where it is tolerable. The biggest change is they decided to honor the "indisputable evidence" part, it used to be if they were like 75% sure they would overturn it. Sometimes the guy on the field did have a better view and the tape can lie.

Barry won't be let go until after the season but his fate has to be sealed now. At halftime I was commenting how I just couldn't believe how such a small QB could have been drafted #1 overall but man he was hitting everything after that, maybe not the colossal blunder everyone thought a few weeks ago.   

[BrewerFan]

18 hours ago, adambr2 said:

I don't know. Can you imagine if you're an offensive player on the Packers, your defense hasn't done you any favors in a month, you put up 33 points against one of the top defenses in the NFL, you put a game winning drive together with 19 seconds left, and if you had left 20 seconds on the clock your defense STILL would have blown it, to the worst offense in football, and your HC spits out a quote like THAT? 

I think I'd take that pretty personally. 

You're in the NFL, you can't be that delicate. The offense includes and ultimately the responsibility of MLF.

He's not firing Barry at this point, he was getting questions about the defense. If THAT is an issue? 

15 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

And does anyone really have any faith that LeFleur will bring in a competent DC to replace Barry or will he just hire another one of his buddies? Barry has been a nepo hire his entire coaching career, at least as a DC.

Again, this was a big story for a POTENTIAL issue in 2019 when Murphy got involved. He was forced to keep Pettine and Barry wasn't his first choice.

I'll have more confidence in the entire football operations once Murphy gets his nose out of things. Gutekunst has proven himself. I believe MLF has mostly. If we get Rizzi and don't offer to make him one of the lowest STC in the NFL, we win that SF game(presumably). 

Every coach is going to make "nepo," hires though. You hire guys you work with. 

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, igor67 said:

When was the last time MLF had something critical to say about the defense?

Did you hear his comments after the last last week? He was asked if he'd consider firing a Coordinator in-season and he said "this isn't the time to talk about that," and made other comments that were...not subtle. He made comments earlier in the season about the "definition of insanity." He's called out Barry numerous times. Not by name, but all but.

3 hours ago, igor67 said:

That difference isn't quite as big as I might have guessed, but as others have said one unit started slowly as expected and has shown improvement and the other languishes after starting OK.

Sure. I'd counter that the defense is STACKED with talent and that the offense is the youngest in the NFL...since the Merger and likely before, but they don't have average ages. 

So give Love the players around him and talent around him that the D has and I think they'd be elite. Just another year with the same group will push them top 5 IMO.

You add a guy like Joe Alt(who I'd absolutely trade a 2nd+ to move up to get if we could) and then some players who fit this scheme like Jaheim Bell out of FSU(look up his tape at South Carolina from '22 if you need, but he's a 6-3 230LB H-Back/RB/WRer/TE...just a dude with size, athletic ability and jaw-dropping athletic ability that translates as he can track the deep ball down the middle). And then you keep adding talent at OG. I think Rasheed Walker can be a star there, Rhyan MAY be, but the point is even without upgrade to personnel, they should be better.

The defense right now has the talent and experience to be excelling. This group would excel in Capers style. This group is perfect for his version of the 34.

 

This defense effectively relies on the two-edge rushers to get home. You play 2 gap on your DL...so Wyatt isn't going to get those sacks where he just whoops someone unless he goes rogue. It's a .5 second delay for the DL. Then you have your DBs playing off in a soft zone...

 

2 hours ago, OldHeidelberg said:

Barry won't be let go until after the season but his fate has to be sealed now. At halftime I was commenting how I just couldn't believe how such a small QB could have been drafted #1 overall but man he was hitting everything after that, maybe not the colossal blunder everyone thought a few weeks ago.   

Agreed...and of course, we helped, but that kid looks like he could still be a helluva pick. 

You want to know who the great QBs will be(or more specifically WON'T be)...listen to Merril Hodge. That dude has been nailing it year after year. I grew up with him and I never really thought he was that great, but he breaks down QB play for kids coming out of College and he's been remarkably reliable. Said he liked Young, but wouldn't have a 1st round grade on him just because he's too small and that should be reserved for franchise QBs. Respected how people would say, "Look how tough that kid is," and how he kept getting up from big hits, but that's just not sustainable. 

CJ Stroud was the one guy he had a 1st-round-grade grade on this year...a guy a lot of people were pretty down on relative to your average top 3 QB pick. 

Then of course, the famous Johnny Manziel comments!

 

[Jimbo]

Your punter is 34th in the league in net yards, in a league that has 32 teams.

I'm usually a cautiously optimistic person, but even I thought 19 seconds and zero timeouts was a sure thing.  Carolina was one second from tying the game.  Not sure if I have ever seen something like that.  That would have been just.....bad.

 

[valpocrewsader]

5 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Your punter is 34th in the league in net yards, in a league that has 32 teams.

 

I saw that same stat -- 34th in the league -- at the bottom of the screen during the broadcast and had to do a double take. Yikes. 

[adambr2]

On 12/24/2023 at 8:29 PM, wildcat83 said:

Jaire invited himself to the captains meeting even though he’s not an official captain.  Won the toss and said we wanted to play defense instead of defer.  Thankfully the official clarified.  Very odd for a guy just to go join the captains meeting on his own.  That type of stuff usually taken pretty seriously and is kind of an honor for NFL games.  Doubt that sat well with coaches or teammates when he’s suited up for the first time in like 6 weeks…

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39179795/green-bay-packers-overcome-mistake-coin-toss-win

 

I think the worst part is it sounds like from his reaction too that he would go right out and say the exact same thing next week. Didn't seem to have any awareness that he said anything wrong. 

I'm starting to get to the point of being pretty ready to move on from Jaire. He's starting to make me think of a defensive version of Antonio Brown. 

[Oxy]

6 hours ago, adambr2 said:

I think the worst part is it sounds like from his reaction too that he would go right out and say the exact same thing next week. Didn't seem to have any awareness that he said anything wrong. 

I'm starting to get to the point of being pretty ready to move on from Jaire. He's starting to make me think of a defensive version of Antonio Brown. 

Those quotes were something else.  The entire lack of humility and understanding the situation well after the fact is a little disturbing.