Wild Card Game: Packers @ Cowboys - Sunday, Jan 14 3:30pm

[CheezWizHed]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:01 AM, Underachiever said:

Sorry to derail the Packer thread with a personal problem, but I have to have "the talk" with my son this week. He's getting married on Saturday and I don't know how to tell him I won't be there. 

I just texted a friend of mine (Bronco's fan) and asked if his wife would mind it if the football game was on at her 40th Birthday party... 😂

Looks like I'll be DVR-ing the game and catching up with the in-game thread later... 

[CheezWizHed]

Kind of funny what several of the Packers had on their helmets... Everyone wants to be like Jordan...

[thebruce44]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:18 AM, bjkrautk said:

I am so impressed with the way this offense is going right now.  So much so, that I find myself increasingly open-minded about Joe Barry.  If we cut the offense slack for young receivers not running their routes correctly...the coverage breakdowns have mostly disappeared over the last month (with the possible exception of the Baker Mayfield game), due largely to inexperienced DBs having gone through the crucible.  I'm not 100% there...and a bad showing against SF could close the book on Barry's tenure, but the defense showed out and complemented the offense in a playoff game.

[CheezWizHed]

By that logic, Joe Barry is a better DC than Dan Quinn?  I don't think so... Yes we had a good game plan and flustered Dak.  But at best Barry's defenses are ranked around the 15 range.  Most of the time, the are in the 20s.  

He has his games... and he seems to always end better than his D performs mid year.  But overall, performance is just low. 

Time to move on. 

[stalton]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

By that logic, Joe Barry is a better DC than Dan Quinn?  I don't think so... Yes we had a good game plan and flustered Dak.  But at best Barry's defenses are ranked around the 15 range.  Most of the time, the are in the 20s.  

He has his games... and he seems to always end better than his D performs mid year.  But overall, performance is just low. 

Time to move on. 

Playing Devil's advocate, say the Packers win the super bowl riding on a stout defense with several turnovers. Can the brass still pull the trigger?

[SeaBass]

If the reason they retain Barry is because they won the Super Bowl I'd have a hard time being too sour about it. At least not until early the next season once his defense starts acting like a sieve with extra big holes in it.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I don't think it will come to that. The only alternative to winning a Super Bowl is not winning one, meaning there will be a nice big fat loss to talk about all offseason.

[Fear The Chorizo]

5 hours ago, stalton said:

Playing Devil's advocate, say the Packers win the super bowl riding on a stout defense with several turnovers. Can the brass still pull the trigger?

Isn't his contract up after this season, so it wouldnt necessarily be a firing, just not a rehiring?  Maybe he'll get a head coaching gig out of that kind a postseason run and we won't have to worry about reupping!

[HarveysWBs]

52 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Isn't his contract up after this season, so it wouldnt necessarily be a firing, just not a rehiring?  Maybe he'll get a head coaching gig out of that kind a postseason run and we won't have to worry about reupping!

I mean, if Dan Quinn can get a head coaching gig after what we just did to his charmin-soft defense, I’ll believe anything is possible for Barry.

[BrewerFan]

9 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

By that logic, Joe Barry is a better DC than Dan Quinn?  I don't think so... Yes we had a good game plan and flustered Dak.  But at best Barry's defenses are ranked around the 15 range.  Most of the time, the are in the 20s.  

He has his games... and he seems to always end better than his D performs mid year.  But overall, performance is just low. 

Time to move on. 

Yeah, he always seems to get better when Matt LaFleur publicly says something or as was the case this past week, "wanted to be more involved in the defensive gameplan."

I have seen the Packers with great schemes for the teams they were facing this year...and have absolutely zero faith it was Joe Barry based on how unprepared we are EVERY year for the first ~10 games or the first ~10 games sans a huge matchup like KC or whoever. 

This is so repetitive, I know I'm just repeating myself now, but Quay is a freak athlete. Wyatt is unblockable 1 on 1(Clark as well, but he may be unblockable double-teamed). 

Their DL, edges, CBs, they have talent all over. Even Savage I think would be a much better player in a different system in which he's not just playing quarters. They had him playing robber vs Dallas(who runs trip slants a lot and he stole 6 from them). 

 

"Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice...ya can't get fooled again folks, that's the point here!"

[CheezWizHed]

If we play lock down defense (i.e. less than 20 pts) for the next three games and MLF chooses to bring Barry back with a Super Bowl victory, I think people will be OK, but leery about that. 

But more likely if we win the SB, it is an offensive led team and an "ok" defense that gets us there. 

And I'm with @BrewerFan... something stinks in the state of Denmark... I don't think this is just Joe Barry "figuring it out". Seems like he is getting more direction and "help".  Perhaps behind the scenes another position coach is getting more responsibilities in the game plans? Or just MLF himself...

[Samurai Bucky]

In all fairness to Joe Barry, if the Packers get destroyed this weekend, the 9ers have a lot more talent at the skill positions than Dallas.  We are led to believe Dallas is better because of the following formula:

[Player Skill] * [Dallas Coefficient] = [Perceived Value]

Even so, I would expect to see a competitive game which means Joe Barry is doing his job.  As soon as we need to employ James Webb to find the secondary, then the writing is on the wall.

 

[SeaBass]

I do think it's pathetic when MLF says he has to pay special attention to help out the defense and he's an offense first minded coach. Coaches do need to understand both sides of the ball to know how to game plan, maybe Genius Joe doesn't understand offenses as well as a DC should and needs MLF to translate or help break down each individual opponent's offensive tendencies and how best to counter it. That's definitely not being a good DC on Barry's part. The dude just needs to go.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, SeaBass said:

...MLF says he has to pay special attention...

This is the part that gives me hope that he will part with Barry in the offseason regardless of the playoff outcome.  I often have to give people I manage "special attention"... and it means they aren't doing their job.  Sometimes they "get it" and improve.  Most the time, it just means they aren't capable.  Unfortunately, we don't have contracts that expire and firing someone takes a mountain of work to prove. 

Only the internal GM leadership team know how much Barry has contributed to our defensive improvement and how much is being propped up by MLF and others. 

[young guns]

I am starting to get annoyed that the cowboys are still the team being talked about the most from this game.

[CheezWizHed]

11 minutes ago, young guns said:

I am starting to get annoyed that the cowboys are still the team being talked about the most from this game.

No worries.  It is like watching a reality game show.  The people that get the most air time are the people eliminated that round. 😂

[brewcrewdue80]

The defense improved some when Quay Walker stopped playing so much 6-8yards off line scrimmage about to play zone on 3rd and 5-8 and immediately upon snap take 4yards back, watch who he should defend catch the ball in front of him and proceed to not make any effort making the tackle just hope he got ran in to.

The last 3 games somebody has him running towards line of scrimmage forcing him to be in the play. He's stepping forward in his coverage at snap I noticed vs back 4yards so that receiver isn't 7yards open in the middle of the field. Plus in a better position to make a hit vs just getting run in to.  He's getting far too much love for a guy I think sits between Blake Martinez and Ty Sommers level at LB.  He should be better but he's taken a big step back from his draft day body and skills.  Ive wondered on Barry scheme or LBs coaches who can't work with his talents teaching him away from what he does best.

 

Another thought was Savage's return. How long ago was that? He may have locked down a little more turf Quay was being asked to cover and that pit him more in position or aggressive up near line of scrimmage.  How Walker plays of the 11 on the field I think he sits most responsible for the bad vs good on the defense. 

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

The last 3 games somebody has him running towards line of scrimmage forcing him to be in the play. He's stepping forward in his coverage at snap I noticed vs back 4yards so that receiver isn't 7yards open in the middle of the field. Plus in a better position to make a hit vs just getting run in to.  He's getting far too much love for a guy I think sits between Blake Martinez and Ty Sommers level at LB.  He should be better but he's taken a big step back from his draft day body and skills.  Ive wondered on Barry scheme or LBs coaches who can't work with his talents teaching him away from what he does best.

 

Another thought was Savage's return. How long ago was that? He may have locked down a little more turf Quay was being asked to cover and that pit him more in position or aggressive up near line of scrimmage.  How Walker plays of the 11 on the field I think he sits most responsible for the bad vs good on the defense. 

Ty Sommers should've never seen the defensive side of the football field, so your take a is a bit laughable there.  Martinez comp isn't horrible, but Walker is faster and can cover sideline-to sideline better. Both do better with the play in front of them.  Neither covered the pass well. 

McDuffie and Martinez are probably even a better comp, but that isn't what we are talking about. 

I think the Chicago game showed Walker's best side.  He needs to attack the LOS... either going after the run, spying the QB, or blitzing.  Moving backwards is just not his forte.  So I do agree with the first part about him playing deeper and using his speed to move forward instead of moving backwards. 

 

[homer]

I wonder if Walker would be better as an edge rusher.

[brewcrewdue80]

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Ty Sommers should've never seen the defensive side of the football field, so your take a is a bit laughable there.  Martinez comp isn't horrible, but Walker is faster and can cover sideline-to sideline better. Both do better with the play in front of them.  Neither covered the pass well. 

McDuffie and Martinez are probably even a better comp, but that isn't what we are talking about. 

I think the Chicago game showed Walker's best side.  He needs to attack the LOS... either going after the run, spying the QB, or blitzing.  Moving backwards is just not his forte.  So I do agree with the first part about him playing deeper and using his speed to move forward instead of moving backwards. 

 

Ty Sommers comment is based on how he would back up on coverage already 5+yards off line of scrimmage and then watch balls get completed in front of him. Ala what Walker has been doing up til 3 weeks ago. Sommers at least made an effort then to make the tackle vs Quay just following the play hoping to run in to somebody in the process of tackling or not even making a play at all.

He should be better. He's not. Watch him have a great 4th year and come away with a contract he doesn't deserve. That's the effort and body type I see watching his film this season.