Wisconsin Football 2024

[Jim French Stepstool]

3 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Barry's road grader offensive lines and defenses that brought Bucky into the national spotlight at all were built on 5th year seniors mixed in with a handful of blue chip recruits at key positions - they were men literally playing against boys and the physicality wore more talented opponents down.  

 

College football isn't that way anymore with transfers and NIL, so Bucky needs a new way to build a winning program when the conference is now chock full of programs that will poach the 5 star recruits at will away from madison.

The way rosters are built is certainly different. But you can still wear teams down with a strong offensive line & run game regardless as to how the rosters are put together. I'm not suggesting you can do that by only throwing ten times per game--I think there is some revisionist history going on w/regards to Alvarez anyway. Sure, they relied on the run, but there were games where they threw the ball more than folks would think. They had teams that would set up the pass by establishing the run. It's no coincidence that some of Lockes' most effective work came in the 3-game winning streak, in part due to the caliber of the opponent but largely due to the run game cooking, and the defense having to honor it. When they've struggled, defenses really have nothing they need to scheme to 'take away'.

Your point about the 3rd, 4th & 5th year guys is a very good one, and it makes it tougher to build consistency. But keeping folks that you can win with is still a goal, and the ones that can do it are the better for it. The culture they thrived on 20-30 years is most likely gone forever, but if they go too far in the opposite direction by disproportionately living or dying with skill position players when you're competing not only with the Michigans, Penn states & Ohio States but the SEC for those players I predict a very rude awakening.

I'll close by holding up Iowa, which is OK but not great at receiver & RB, has a QB that would probably struggle at a Locke-type level if he had to carry a team, yet has scored in the 30s & 40s in over half their games & beat us primarily because they dominated us up front, badly. You're right, UW needs to adjust. But I sense the baby flying out the window along with the bathwater. I hope I'm wrong.

[Fear The Chorizo]

6 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The way rosters are built is certainly different. But you can still wear teams down with a strong offensive line & run game regardless as to how the rosters are put together. I'm not suggesting you can do that by only throwing ten times per game--I think there is some revisionist history going on w/regards to Alvarez anyway. Sure, they relied on the run, but there were games where they threw the ball more than folks would think. They had teams that would set up the pass by establishing the run. It's no coincidence that some of Lockes' most effective work came in the 3-game winning streak, in part due to the caliber of the opponent but largely due to the run game cooking, and the defense having to honor it. When they've struggled, defenses really have nothing they need to scheme to 'take away'.

Your point about the 3rd, 4th & 5th year guys is a very good one, and it makes it tougher to build consistency. But keeping folks that you can win with is still a goal, and the ones that can do it are the better for it. The culture they thrived on 20-30 years is most likely gone forever, but if they go too far in the opposite direction by disproportionately living or dying with skill position players when you're competing not only with the Michigans, Penn states & Ohio States but the SEC for those players I predict a very rude awakening.

I'll close by holding up Iowa, which is OK but not great at receiver & RB, has a QB that would probably struggle at a Locke-type level if he had to carry a team, yet has scored in the 30s & 40s in over half their games & beat us primarily because they dominated us up front, badly. You're right, UW needs to adjust. But I sense the baby flying out the window along with the bathwater. I hope I'm wrong.

Agreed that WI needs to find a way to get back to teams that dominate the trenches.  Figuring out everything else offensively and defensively needs to go from there.

[nate82]

The Badgers offense in the recent past just looking at PC here were run on 1st 2nd and 3rd down no matter the distance.  Then if that doesn't work for the first 6 possessions try run, run, 5-yard pass routes on 3rd and long.  All while the defense is stacking the box on first and second down.  Oh an your best receiver your TE guess what he will just block because that is what TE's do. 

There were players on PC teams that could have helped the QB out by moving them around.  Ferguson for example was a really good TE and PC hardly ever moved him from the main TE spot and he was usually in the traditional TE spot where he was expected to block the majority of the time.  If he would have just moved Ferguson out in the slot a few times he would have made it a bit easier on his QB.  PC and his offense never made it easy for the QB.  It was always putting the QB in the most difficult position to succeed which was completely different from the HC's before him especially for Alvarez. 

The Badgers used to put their QB's in the best position to succeed and then the we are a running team and that is all we do PC came along.  This is where the Badgers are a running team and that is all we do non sense seems to have started.  If you pass the ball that is not Badgers football non sense is just gross and a fallacy.  The Badgers before PC were more of a balanced team and then PC came a long and implemented the myth of the only way to win at WI is to run the ball.  The hiring of PC set this program back by at least 10-years if not more.  The only good decision PC made was hiring Leonhard everything else was an absolute disaster of horrible decisions. 

A run heavy offense just doesn't work if you don't have a QB who can at least challenge the other team.  The Badgers haven't had that at QB for a long time.  Mertz at one point looked like that QB who could do that but then he just regressed after his first season starting and PC basically just gave up and went oh well I tried to get a good QB what do you want me to do?  Locke is an absolutely horrible QB for what the Badgers are trying to do an would be an absolutely horrible QB in Alvarez system also.  You can't have an absolutely horrible QB and playing as a run first team.  The Badgers are still a run first team it is just not as heavy as it once was.  If you put in a better QB this teams record would be better. 

If you want to have a run first offense you need the QB to actually be a threat either in the run game or by making passes.  Stave wasn't going to beat you with his arm alone but he was able to make passes.  Hornibrook was a better QB than Locke just let that sink in for a moment.  Hornibrook was a better QB than Locke and Hornibrook didn't even have the arm that Locke has.  Locke has a better arm than Hornibrook but is an absolute caveman moron when it comes to decision making at the QB spot and Hornibrook wasn't that smart either at QB.  QB play is extremely important in a run heavy offense.  The Badgers just haven't had that QB for awhile now and defenses have been daring the Badgers to throw on them to beat them and the QB hasn't been able to consistently beat cupcake teams let alone a semi competent defense.   

Even if there is no one better than Locke on the roster right now I would still go with someone else just to make the change and to start on evaluations for next year and getting someone some game time experience.  Locke is not the answer at QB for the Badgers. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm not a Badgers fan but I just was Googling around and Ron Dayne's entire offensive line from his senior year went to the NFL. That's insane.

[JosephC]

So I was looking at undefeated Oregon, and those undefeated teams usually start really feeling the pressure... and then they have to travel halfway across the country and end up stepping into the hornet's nest.  So I had to look at the schedule and see what game followed Bucky, just in case Oregon may be overlooking Wisconsin and already be preparing for the following game.

Only to find out that Oregon has a bye week after the Wisconsin game.  Bucky being a 14.5 point dog is sounding just about right to me.  

[nate82]

12 minutes ago, JosephC said:

Only to find out that Oregon has a bye week after the Wisconsin game.  Bucky being a 14.5 point dog is sounding just about right to me.  

Them being a 14.5 point underdog is not surprising when the only thing that is working on offense is the run game loosely speaking.  So Oregon really only needs to focus on stopping the run and daring Locke to beat them in the air which I don't believe will happen unless something catastrophic happens to Oregon.  I would be fine being wrong on this but I don't believe Locke has it in him to play at a level needed for the Badgers to win this game. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

11 hours ago, JosephC said:

So I was looking at undefeated Oregon, and those undefeated teams usually start really feeling the pressure... and then they have to travel halfway across the country and end up stepping into the hornet's nest.  So I had to look at the schedule and see what game followed Bucky, just in case Oregon may be overlooking Wisconsin and already be preparing for the following game.

Only to find out that Oregon has a bye week after the Wisconsin game.  Bucky being a 14.5 point dog is sounding just about right to me.  

The flip side, looking for a positive, is UW is coming off a bye themselves. They were set up for the 'hornets nest' scenario a few weeks ago & it carried them for about half the game vs Penn State. After that they really ran out of gas & were beaten across the front on both sides of the ball. That's their biggest issue vs teams like PSU & Iowa, Alabama, etc.

IF they can build a lead early, based on forcing TOs, maybe a special teams gaffe or two by the Ducks...........but that's unlikely.

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I'm not a Badgers fan but I just was Googling around and Ron Dayne's entire offensive line from his senior year went to the NFL. That's insane.

Yeah. That era included Mark Tauscher, who had a pro career yet started out as a walkon lineman at UW. Coaching. Development. Lunchpail mentality. Fun times.

[yfinn6]

On 11/12/2024 at 10:36 AM, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I'm not a Badgers fan but I just was Googling around and Ron Dayne's entire offensive line from his senior year went to the NFL. That's insane.

Similar to me. I was on a Wiki rabbit hole and was reading on the 1999 - 2000 team that won the Rose Bowl and how many "homegrown" kids they had.

I know college football is changing and players rarely stay 3-5 years and develop but man it was fun to have a senior-laden team with experience and strength and watch them beat the crap out of teams. 

Scott Tolzien would not be talked about in the upper echelon of UW QBs (though maybe he should, or maybe he actually is) but his final season at UW was quintessential Paul Chryst as an offensive coordinator and was about as good of a team as I can remember despite not winning the Rose Bowl (thanks Chryst). I would love to have a team like that again. So much NFL talent and developing NFL talent.

It feels like we're SO far away from that. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

18 hours ago, yfinn6 said:

Similar to me. I was on a Wiki rabbit hole and was reading on the 1999 - 2000 team that won the Rose Bowl and how many "homegrown" kids they had.

I know college football is changing and players rarely stay 3-5 years and develop but man it was fun to have a senior-laden team with experience and strength and watch them beat the crap out of teams. 

Scott Tolzien would not be talked about in the upper echelon of UW QBs (though maybe he should, or maybe he actually is) but his final season at UW was about as good of a team as I can remember despite not winning the Rose Bowl (thanks Chryst). I would love to have a team like that again. So much NFL talent and developing NFL talent.

It feels like we're SO far away from that. 

The funny thing, in Tolziens' SR year he had a mess of talent in the O-Line & came four yards short of having 3 (!!) 1,000 yr rushers on the roster. Pretty sure there was an extra man in the box at least part of, if not virtually all of, that season. He took advantage of it by completing over 70% of his passes. Fast-forward to last year--Braelon Allen talks before the season about how nice it'll be to see one less man in the box. But he had the fewest carries in his UW career, and his YPC was identical to the previous year. He brushed up on his Iron Joc commercials, then quit the team before their final game (Yes, he wasn't 100% healthy. And we'll never know if he was only at 60%, or at 90% but looking ahead to the combine. Many speculate the latter).

I guess my point is that what you're good at is often more about committing to & establishing something & then playing off of it, as opposed to letting a defense dictate to you. Because AFA hanging their hat on anything offensively is concerned, they have no hatrack. Losing their chosen portal QB the last two years obviously doesn't help. But when one position on the field is going to be so vital, that's the dice you roll.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I would say Tolzien is up there as far as UW QBs go. Stocco too. I don't count Russell Wilson. 

 

[nate82]

If Locke could be more like Tolzien this team would be better.  I think they win the USC game if anyone but Locke is playing QB in that game.  Hopefully Mettauer is the next man up and he can be something closer to Tolzien.  Trech and Dupree look to be really good and a solid foundation for next years offense.  Hopefully the Badgers can get Eugene Hilton Jr. in next year though he does have a scholarship offer from Georgia but has verbally committed to the Badgers. 

Freshman WR's normally don't start all that often but I think Hilton could be the exception here.  Pauling and Anthony should also return for their Sr years as neither look to be a round 3-5 picks.  Pauling maybe but he has had a lot of drops this year and he is on the verge of being a 5th round pick but he is probably more of a 7th round pick at best right now.  Anthony would maybe get a look as an undrafted rookie maybe.

I think there is enough talent next year to compete a bit if the QB and OL play improves.  There have been times this year where the OL has shown life and other times where it is just awful.  Give this team another year and I think the OL play improves.  The question is will the QB play improve also?  This is why I think after the Oregon game the Badgers have to go with someone other than Locke to see what they have for next year.  Locke is not the answer for next year time to move on and let him transfer.  I want to see what Mettauer can do against Nebraska and Minnesota.

[CheezWizHed]

11 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I would say Tolzien is up there as far as UW QBs go. Stocco too. I don't count Russell Wilson. 

 

Russell hit the transfer portal before the portal was cool!  Might as well include him now since you will see far more of it (either that or never have another "Badger" QB...).

I think Tolzien was highly underrated by fans.  Not physically great at anything, but the whole was greater than the sum of the parts.  Carved out a nice NFL career as a backup too.

[LouisEly]

On 11/12/2024 at 9:36 AM, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I'm not a Badgers fan but I just was Googling around and Ron Dayne's entire offensive line from his senior year went to the NFL. That's insane.

Alex Hornibrook's entire offense went on to the NFL.

RB: Jonathan Taylor, Corey Clement, Dare Ogunbowale
FB: Alec Ingold
TE: Troy Fumagalli, Jake Ferguson
WR: Quintez Cephus, Kendrick Pryor
OL: Tyler Biadasz, Michael Dieter, Ryan Ramczyck, David Edwards, Cole Van Lanen, Beau Benzschawel, Logan Bruss (Tyler Beach was in camp with the Steelers this year and the Texans last year)

Surround Locke with that talent and he'd look a lot better.  I don't know if there's one offensive skill position player on the current team who will go on to the NFL, much less eight.

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

5 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

 

I think Tolzien was highly underrated by fans.  Not physically great at anything, but the whole was greater than the sum of the parts.  Carved out a nice NFL career as a backup too.

 

That was the beauty of that system. It gave inroads for Tolzien, Stocco, Jim Sorgi, Joel Stave, Jack Coan, even Darrell Bevell to be more successful than they otherwise would've been. Fortunate, because the list of UW QBs that could put a team on their shoulders is a short one--- Wilson, Brooks Bollinger (sort of).

[Jim French Stepstool]

4 hours ago, LouisEly said:

  I don't know if there's one offensive skill position player on the current team who will go on to the NFL, much less eight.

Great point. When you run off the volume of names it's pretty daunting.

Personally, if he stays on his development track I could see Vinny Anthony making it on a roster. Possibly one of the frosh RBs, especially with Duprees' ability to catch the ball. But none stand out at the moment as guys you would confidently project to that level.

[Jim French Stepstool]

So, Longo was recently asked about Mettauers' progress. I don't recall his exact quote but it suggested he's "coming along", "getting there", etc. but made it sound like he still isn't ready to get thrown out there in a 'game on the line' situation, which is no surprise.

And they're still in the running for a bowl, which lessens any chance of playing him simply to gain experience. Even if they lose the next two, Mettauer won't be inserted vs Minnesota unless they feel he gives them a better chance of winning & getting to 6-6. I thought, with two weeks off before Oregon, he might've gotten to the point where there's a package put in for him that he can effectively execute. Unless they're being really coy, apparently not.

A large part of what they do revolves around reading defenses & changing plays at the line, and I suspect that's where he's severely lacking.

[LouisEly]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

A large part of what they do revolves around reading defenses & changing plays at the line, and I suspect that's where he's severely lacking.

Yep, that's the hard part of the system.  Takes a while to learn that, and likely is one of the causes of Locke and the receivers often not being on the same page.  Having a bunch of transfers trying to be in sync with that might be the root cause of their offensive issues, especially if the transfers came from a system where all they had to do was look over at the sidelines at some guy holding up some cards telling them what to do.

[Underachiever]

FR	TE
Gabe Carimi*		OL
Peter Konz*		OL
John Moffitt*		OL
Ricky Wagner*		OL
Kevin Zeitler*		OL
Ryan Groy	FR	OL
Kyle Wojta	JR	OL
Casey Dehn		OL
Bill Nagy		OL
Josh Oglesby

2010 O-line room wasn't too bad.

Carimi 1st rounder, Konz 2nd, Moffitt 3rd, Wagner 5th, Zeitler 1st rounder (and still going), Groy UDFA (played 7 seasons in NFL), Nagy 7th, and I think Oglesby was a 5-star recruit who remains the highest-ranked recruit the Badgers have ever landed.

Man, that Ohio State game that year was good times.

 

[LouisEly]

9 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Groy UDFA (played 7 seasons in NFL)

Still can't believe he wasn't drafted that year.

Fun fact - he played over 1,600 offensive snaps in the NFL and was never called for holding.

[homer]

19 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Great point. When you run off the volume of names it's pretty daunting.

Personally, if he stays on his development track I could see Vinny Anthony making it on a roster. Possibly one of the frosh RBs, especially with Duprees' ability to catch the ball. But none stand out at the moment as guys you would confidently project to that level.

I think they have several Kendrick Pryor types. Not the same player but could get picked 6th or 7th round - Anthony, Pauling, Kekahuna

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, homer said:

I think they have several Kendrick Pryor types. Not the same player but could get picked 6th or 7th round - Anthony, Pauling, Kekahuna

It's possible. I'm not sure Pauling would hold up physically at the next level given his strengths seem to be tied into YAC yardage & shorter routes and he's not a big guy. Kekahuna I really like. Fast, tough & competitive. But again, the size thing......I just don't know. Time will tell.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Underachiever said:

FR	TE
Gabe Carimi*		OL
Peter Konz*		OL
John Moffitt*		OL
Ricky Wagner*		OL
Kevin Zeitler*		OL
Ryan Groy	FR	OL
Kyle Wojta	JR	OL
Casey Dehn		OL
Bill Nagy		OL
Josh Oglesby

Man, that Ohio State game that year was good times.

 

Watching JJ Watt & seeing how they just. Couldn't. Block. The guy. Fantastic night. On my short list of all-time in-person memories at CR. Along with the Purdue win where Brees threw about 723 passes (or so it seemed), The Dayne record breaking game vs Iowa, Schabert to Evans in the rain, Stoccos' QB draw to beat Michigan, and the '93 win over Michigan with the scary, sad aftermath.

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I'm not sure Pauling would hold up physically at the next level given his strengths seem to be tied into YAC yardage & shorter routes and he's not a big guy.

Guys his size at the college level are a dime a dozen.  And I don't know if he has the straight-line speed; when they did the radar gun speed competition I don't recall seeing him in the top 5 in mph if even the top 10.  Add that to all the drops on tape that he has and he might need to run a sub-4.40 to get a look.  He'll certainly need to run a sub-6.8 on the 3-cone.

To his credit, he's also been playing gunner on special teams - a 5th/6th WR in the NFL will need to play special teams, but I don't know if that's helping or hurting him and physically wearing him down.  But overall, I see him as an UDFA/practice squad type at best.

[homer]

3 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

It's possible. I'm not sure Pauling would hold up physically at the next level given his strengths seem to be tied into YAC yardage & shorter routes and he's not a big guy. Kekahuna I really like. Fast, tough & competitive. But again, the size thing......I just don't know. Time will tell.

I'm not saying they will have long careers or be successful...just think they have a chance to get drafted late.