Packers 2024 Off-Season Thread

[BrewerFan]

On 6/6/2024 at 2:31 PM, CheezWizHed said:

Much has been touted this year about the "no #1 WR" concept on the Packers, but there are only so many balls that can go around.  So, while there might not be a #1, there will eventually be something of a pecking order.  The WR development this year could be very interesting. 

Watson - Probably the game-changer of the group when healthy.  This was most evident in 2022-23 when playing with Rodgers.  When Watson was in the game, the underneath routes for others opened up; without Watson, everyone moved up 5 yards and dared us to go deep.  He was expected to break out last year, but injuries sidelined him again.  Still don't know what he can do with intermediate routes.  Hands might be the most questionable of the group, but he is the biggest (literally) TD target among WRs.

Doubs - Overplayed his draft position as a rookie with a mature approach to the offense, but didn't really grow last year.  I was expecting more of a 2nd year jump, but he really just plateaued. Maybe he is already maxed out? Everything about him is pretty average, except his above average hands.  Every team needs a good possession WR to ensure those drive moving 1st downs. 

Reed - Became Love's goto WR last year.  And for a time was nearly the only WR healthy and productive.  Reminds me a bit of a poor-man's JJ. Will be interesting to see him make the second year jump.

Wicks - A real dark-horse candidate with maybe the biggest variation between possible outcomes.  A bit average in size/speed (like Doubs), but his footwork seems like a major differentiator for him.  You don't need to be a burner to get open if the CB is going the wrong way.  Really seemed to click with Love last season too. 

Melton - Seems like a Reed clone size wise.  Really came out of nowhere last year and clicked with Love.  No one was paying attention to him and he made them pay.  Seems like that ascension has continued this offseason to prove his 2023 season wasn't a fluke. Both he and Reed (but maybe a bit more from Melton) have added to the deep game to ensure it wasn't just Watson opening up the underneath game. 

Toure - Had his opportunities but seems a bit limited to running go routes.  Doesn't seem to bring much to the short/intermediate route games.  I tend to think he won't make this roster. 

Heath - A preseason darling that pretty much vanished in the regular season.  Queued up to be the Lazard replacement - big, blocking WR that will catch the short/intermediate stuff.  Maybe he takes off in that role this year (it took Lazard a couple years to get there), but stiff competition to make it this year. 

DuBose - Major question mark has he was injured in TC last year.  Could be looked at as a rookie this year (since we didn't draft one), but should already know the offense.  Wouldn't stun me to be the 6th WR on the 53-man - probably a fight between he and Heath. 

Not worth commenting on the rest.  The top 5 spots are all but wrapped up.  The 6th is there, but Heath and DuBose have a pretty good lead at this point.

As for this year's "#1 WR" (i.e. the one with the most plays and/or targets), I still think Watson has the best chance... if healthy.   Otherwise, it wouldn't shock me to see Wicks up there. 

That's mostly fair. 

I think we really have to be cognizant of how young these guys are(not saying you weren't).

1-Obviously you're right Watson is the guy who has the most potential to be that #1. I think his impact was bigger in '22 because you had so few other weapons. Doubs was one, but Rodgers didn't trust young guys. He was a perfectionist and I think that's actually normal as you get older, but when he's healthy, he makes big plays. 

**The important thing here is Watson is SO explosive, he's got incredible suddenness from a 6'4 210-220 WR. He could be dynamic if they use him as the 2nd KR with Nixon(probably will be a guy like Lloyd, but still). So much hinges on he and Stokes getting the Hamstring issues worked out. I think it was a great first step. Finding out one was 20% stronger than the other leg. I've never heard of that, but I do remember Strength coaches talking about how you had to work on your non-dominant leg to prevent injury. But the detail has improved so much.

Can he run that crisp 20-yard out or a seem to move where he sets his gup up and gets a clean release inside? That'll be the difference between a top 5-10 WR and just out #1. But he can make BIG time plays.

 

#2-Wicks-
Reminds me of Adams so much. But again, he's just in Yr2. I think he's going to just keep getting better and he may end up the #1 in terms of targets.

#3-I like Doubs here. I don't think he plateaued, I think he got better, he just had so much more competition. Good speed, size, , though nothing extraordinary, but he's a smooth route runner like Jennings and he may have the best chance to come down with the ball out of any of them in a 50/50 situation. 

#4-Reed
You could flip the last two, but we all saw what a thread this dude is. I think we all see it.

#5-Melton
Reminded me of Driver...and not like Wicks has some similarities to Adams or Doubs to Jennings, those are certain aspects of their games that are similar, but Melton looked like a Driver clone. Tough over the middle, hanging onto the ball after the hit, battling and slipping off for more yards, he ran great routes...just looked awesome.

 

Toure-Time's up. He's been given a shot, we talk about him every pre-season(actually, the Packers do) and...he hasn't done much. Maybe another team.

Heath-I think you're a little low on what he did. He was playing 30-50% of the snaps the last 5-6 weeks of the season and he made an impact. This is a position I think you go with 5 rather than 7 because I think you can get two or three guys on the PS.

Dubose-He may be a real wild card. A lot of people were high on him last year going into the draft, a lot of people thought he may be a guy we'd draft. Good size, speed, hands...but we never got to see it. Yet despite being a 7th-round pick who got no run all year, he was there at the end of the year on the 53.

Not great top end speed, but great quickness, explosive, physical...

 

I think we either go with 5...if all of them are healthy. If not, I think Dubose could make up the ground. Still think they really like Heath and he's a really good, physical WRr, but the top 5 are just clearly better(I'm choosing to believe Melton's late last year is who we'll see). 

Also, none of the top 5 WRs really play STs save for maybe returning the ball. So Dubose and/or Heath could contribute in that manner. Probably like a lot of other fringe players. They make the PS unless they stand out and they get called up.

 

But with the TEs and the WRs, this group could be a 2011 type offense. Especially if they can jut shore up that OL. If Morgan can come in and be at least an average starter(LT, LG, RG, anywhere) or if Walker takes a step and improves and earns the spot, if Dilard, who MLF spoke glowingly of if he can be a good swing tackle and almost as importantly as anyone, Myers needs to cut down on the mistakes. 

 

Also very interested to see how Jacobs plays. The one move I didn't like, getting rid of Jones. But if you have Jacobs, Lloyd and Wilson while Dillon squeezes his way in there, this offense is loaded.

 

And the defense is built for a 4-3, I think they have been. Wyatt may be the most improved player on this team. The penetrating one gap vs a read and react two gap? It fits him like a glove. 8+ sacks for Wyatt this year, All the talent is there and this team seems to be focussed with leaders like Love and Jaire keeping the young guys on track(also, tip of the cap for Jaire coming in and stepping up the professionalism!

[BrewerFan]

Just an...extra little bit about the recievers, Musgrave and Kraft playing together for another year is going to be huge as well. Obviously...Jacobs can catch the ball, Dillon(if he makes the team) is pretty good, hope Lloyd is, but I could see a pretty easy path for Love to throw for 5000 yards and only have 1 WR with 1000 yards, if that. I could see the top 4 and the TEs all in the 600-1000 range and Melton is such a wildcard. It was a small sample size, but it feels like he could get 600 this year.

He was with the 1s quite a bit it sounds like for the OTAs and made some big plays.

 

If things fall like they could, it's going to be so hard to game plan against this team on either side of the ball. 2 WR, 2 TE sets and you could easily run the ball, take deep shots. 
Defense, you've got guys who should be able to win one-on-ones all over the place. Very exciting season that can't come soon enough!

[CheezWizHed]

Yes, I was trying to figure out who was the most likely to break 1000 yards and it was pretty difficult to predict.  I mean, no one broke 100 yards in a game until late in the season and that was (probably) mostly due to injuries (i.e. fewer WRs available that game). 

I would suspect that we have few RB receptions though.  Not that they can't catch, but as you said... I think there are multiple WR/TEs that can get open by themselves so the need to do check-downs will be diminished.  Though I hope we prove to be a good RB screen team. 

[patrickgpe]

Packers missed out on Jason Bates to the lions but got the guy they cut to sign him, James Turner. I think he has atleast a punchers chance to make the team. All Big 10. 6/9 from over 40, playing outdoors in the Midwest. 

[BrewerFan]

15 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

Packers missed out on Jason Bates to the lions but got the guy they cut to sign him, James Turner. I think he has atleast a punchers chance to make the team. All Big 10. 6/9 from over 40, playing outdoors in the Midwest. 

I think they're fine with Anders. Didn't Bates miss a few kicks as well? I know he hit a couple 64 yarders and that was a big deal, maybe that'll come back to bite us, but Carlson has a big leg and the problem was certainly not limited to him. 

[homer]

 

 

[Joseph Zarr]

This shouldn't come as anything surprising. BUT, I do have some direct information from time-to-time from GB from within the organization. The J-Love deal is done. It has been crafted and agreed to. It's all formality from here. And, the formality appears to be: they want to start off Training Camp with an absolute Bang. The Vibes shall rain henceforth.

You heard it here first. And, again, I think we all thought this would happen. I rest just a tad bit easier tonight.

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

This shouldn't come as anything surprising. BUT, I do have some direct information from time-to-time from GB from within the organization. The J-Love deal is done. It has been crafted and agreed to. It's all formality from here. And, the formality appears to be: they want to start off Training Camp with an absolute Bang. The Vibes shall rain henceforth.

You heard it here first. And, again, I think we all thought this would happen. I rest just a tad bit easier tonight.

Oh great... HighHeat hacked Zarr's password! 😂

[homer]

"Heard from a source that Love will sign tomorrow  Although there is a 15 % chance it falls through. In which case it will happen later" 

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

This shouldn't come as anything surprising. BUT, I do have some direct information from time-to-time from GB from within the organization. The J-Love deal is done. It has been crafted and agreed to. It's all formality from here. And, the formality appears to be: they want to start off Training Camp with an absolute Bang. The Vibes shall rain henceforth.

You heard it here first. And, again, I think we all thought this would happen. I rest just a tad bit easier tonight.

Oof...this is gonna be brutal(but also good).

I'm REALLY hoping it's 5 years at least ADDED to this year.

But I'm gonna guess it's at least 5 years 280 in new money, 235 GTD against injury and 180 fully GTD or GTD against performance. Basically...dude's gonna be the top paid QB. Probably for a very short period of time, but for a while...

 

Now...just REALLY hope the NFL can figure out how to work around another massive loss of cashflow, just like Covid with the the 4.7B judgement which could end up as high as 14B. 

I hope that doesn't impact the future cap as they should juust be getting clear of the Covid ramifications right now, but could keep the cap suppressed for a few more years(though the appeals process will last a while). 

 

Anyway, glad to have Love if this is true. 

[Joseph Zarr]

I'm just sharing what I heard. Tis all. I've mentioned a couple items on Packers players in the past - typically related to injuries - and they've all been accurate. I'm not saying what the deal is. How long. Any details. The simple word is: those in the building all know the deal is done. 

If you paid attention to anything J-Love of late: any interview. anywhere. The new contract is mentioned? The interview is shut down. It is literally entirely on lock down until they collectively decide to bring it forth. It's as simple as that.

[Joseph Zarr]

Also, this source is my dad. Who has a source. Whose source told him that his source is right about what his source told his source. 

[CheezWizHed]

11 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I'm just sharing what I heard. Tis all. I've mentioned a couple items on Packers players in the past - typically related to injuries - and they've all been accurate. I'm not saying what the deal is. How long. Any details. The simple word is: those in the building all know the deal is done. 

If you paid attention to anything J-Love of late: any interview. anywhere. The new contract is mentioned? The interview is shut down. It is literally entirely on lock down until they collectively decide to bring it forth. It's as simple as that.

And no worries... you have much better credibility than others in the past that "heard something".  I just couldn't resist a laugh. 😉

[OldHeidelberg]

Training camp starts this weekend, have to say I am more interested than I have been in years. There are not too many starting position battles but I will be watching these:

 

Lucas Van Ness and Preston Smith, DE  - Preston comes in the nominal starter but I thought Van Ness came on at the end of the season and his 1st round pick status means they want him starting sooner than later. Maybe Smith holds on to it with his veteran status but it won't be for long. For sure they at least both get similar amount of snaps.

 

Jordan Morgan, Sean Rhyan, and Rashad Walker, OL - I saw a depth chart that had Rhyan at RG and Walker at LT but I don't think there is much chance Morgan isn't starting. Maybe moving Tom inside will be in the mix but my bet is Morgan starts at RG this year. I am hopeful Morgan steps right in at LT though.

 

Eric Stokes and Carrington Valentine, CB  - Assuming good health I would guess Stokes has inside track here. Teams like to see 1st round picks through and he is the type of elite athlete you want at the position. But Valentine is no slouch as an athlete, I am pulling for him to hold his position.     

[Joseph Zarr]

Here we go...players began getting their designations today (PUP etc.) I believe early reporting is underway. And, now, this...

 

[BrewerFan]

6 hours ago, OldHeidelberg said:

Training camp starts this weekend, have to say I am more interested than I have been in years. There are not too many starting position battles but I will be watching these:

 

Lucas Van Ness and Preston Smith, DE  - Preston comes in the nominal starter but I thought Van Ness came on at the end of the season and his 1st round pick status means they want him starting sooner than later. Maybe Smith holds on to it with his veteran status but it won't be for long. For sure they at least both get similar amount of snaps.

 

Jordan Morgan, Sean Rhyan, and Rashad Walker, OL - I saw a depth chart that had Rhyan at RG and Walker at LT but I don't think there is much chance Morgan isn't starting. Maybe moving Tom inside will be in the mix but my bet is Morgan starts at RG this year. I am hopeful Morgan steps right in at LT though.

 

Eric Stokes and Carrington Valentine, CB  - Assuming good health I would guess Stokes has inside track here. Teams like to see 1st round picks through and he is the type of elite athlete you want at the position. But Valentine is no slouch as an athlete, I am pulling for him to hold his position.     

The one thing that just really excites me is the personnel with the new defensive scheme. We've got incredible athletes, so getting up field vs the read and react for a DL is going to be fun. Van Ness will benefit from this a lot. Wyatt is still the guy I think is likely to have the biggest breakout year. 

With regard to Morgan...I have no clue what they're going to do there. Andy Herman seems to think it's a long shot they ask him to both move positions and sides, but it's hard to envision them going with Rhyan if he struggles in pass pro as much as he has. That's just too much of a liability. So something has to give.

And Stokes...what a boost that'd be for the defense if he could come back and play at a high level. They're cross-training Bullard at slot and safety, King I thought had been doing the same, but I could be wrong. But I feel pretty confident about Valentine as the #3 if Stokes does beat him out. Little concerned about the depth, but hopefully they'll be alright on that front. 

[OldHeidelberg]

I think the Packers drafted Morgan to be their long term LT but he did reportedly get rag dolled by Gary a couple of times in OTA's/minicamp. I share your concerns about Rhyan's pass blocking but the Packers have never been shy about moving young guys all over the oline. If Morgan isn't ready at LT yet I think he gets a shot at RG. Add in the offseason comments on Tom being better inside and how the OL shakes out is probably the most interesting camp story.

Totally agree on the excitement about our DL and the new scheme. But man, we have been let down so many times by preseason hype about the defense it's hard to be a believer until we see it.  

  

[HarryDoyle]

Van Ness will be the Bryce Turang of the Packers.

[Joseph Zarr]

I think at this very early part of pre-training camp, I am most concerned by who is on PUP or NFI IL.

Kitan Oladapo on the NFI IL

Donovan Jennings, Tucker Kraft, and Zach Tom on the PUP.

If I am recalling correctly both Tom and Kraft are recovering from torn pecs suffered early in the off-season. Regardless, that a lot of intriguing talent shelved to start TC.

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Van Ness will be the Bryce Turang of the Packers.

I'm not entirely sure what this means. A breakout 2nd year player who provides a lot of value without putting up big numbers?

Or just a guy who was alright as a rookie and good his 2nd year?

 

On 7/18/2024 at 6:12 PM, OldHeidelberg said:

 

Totally agree on the excitement about our DL and the new scheme. But man, we have been let down so many times by preseason hype about the defense it's hard to be a believer until we see it.  

Yeah, I've been excited about the players, but I have really liked the scheme since Capers was here. I've also not really been a 4-3 fan, I liked the 3-4 more, but I just think we've been drafting 4-3 players and it'll just free guys up so much.

I was and am a big Morgan fan. I liked Guyton a bit more, but that's moot now. Getting slapped around by Gary is probably something any rookie OT would have to deal with(maybe not Alt). I'm not even sure what we're rooting for here. Rooting for him to beat out Walker? Rooting for Walker to take another step and hold onto the job and then Morgan can get by early while he gets his feet under him at RG? That's probably the best case.

[Joseph Zarr]

Kenny re-upping for 3 yrs and $64 Milly is another shoe dropping in the: Love's deal is done. No way they get that done without knowing the parameters of J-Love's deal. At least, I certainly would think not. What do I know? 😅

[BrewerFan]

28 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Kenny re-upping for 3 yrs and $64 Milly is another shoe dropping in the: Love's deal is done. No way they get that done without knowing the parameters of J-Love's deal. At least, I certainly would think not. What do I know? 😅

No, almost certainly not...and that's a very team-friendly deal. I was good going into this year without an extension as I thought he'd get a 28M AAV-type deal, but this is a good contract. 

Now, Love...5/280...I'm guessing. 

[SeaBass]

Well, maybe not a done deal for Jordan Love. Reports that he will not practice until deal is done per Gute.

 

[adambr2]

Lot of Packer fans are lamenting having to pay Love after only 1 season of production and sample size (in general, not specifically here), but this is the price you pay for letting a guy sit for 3 years behind the incumbent starter. 

Not saying it wasn't a good move, it obviously has its advantages, but a lot of Packer fans don't seem to understand that we chose to put ourselves in this potential position. 

[CheezWizHed]

On 7/19/2024 at 10:17 PM, BrewerFan said:

I'm not entirely sure what this means. A breakout 2nd year player who provides a lot of value without putting up big numbers?

Or just a guy who was alright as a rookie and good his 2nd year?

I'm hoping for a lot of "steals"!

 

On 7/19/2024 at 10:17 PM, BrewerFan said:

I was and am a big Morgan fan. I liked Guyton a bit more, but that's moot now. Getting slapped around by Gary is probably something any rookie OT would have to deal with(maybe not Alt). I'm not even sure what we're rooting for here. Rooting for him to beat out Walker? Rooting for Walker to take another step and hold onto the job and then Morgan can get by early while he gets his feet under him at RG? That's probably the best case.

I'm rooting for all of them to play well and make the decision a difficult one! 😉