Counsell

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, patrickgpe said:

Players and managers take it much less personal than fans, due to free agency and the increase in inter league play (less divisional play) 

Absolutely. Even as I've turned baseballing into a real job, my emotional connections - both good and bad - with teams has waned. I used to be a rabid hater of specific teams - Cardinals, White Sox, Yankees, Dodgers - now I'm just kinda meh about most of them. Still mostly dislike the Cardinals because they're just so bloody arrogant.

I imagine people in the dugout feel this way even more strongly.

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Absolutely. Even as I've turned baseballing into a real job, my emotional connections - both good and bad - with teams has waned. I used to be a rabid hater of specific teams - Cardinals, White Sox, Yankees, Dodgers - now I'm just kinda meh about most of them. Still mostly dislike the Cardinals because they're just so bloody arrogant.

I imagine people in the dugout feel this way even more strongly.

But that catches up with you just like the Padres. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, Brian said:

But that catches up with you just like the Padres. 

Aw, don't pick on the Padres. I love 'em.

But boy, 2021-2023... um... didn't work out for them. That franchise is going to be really, really bad in a few years.

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, TURBO said:

Yeah, made no sense.  Either he was naïve, or just plain lying.

He knew and knows exactly what he did. He lit the match and then smiled and burned that relationship bridge with Milwaukee as a fan, player, and coach…..figuring his odds of winning just went up. And  figuring he is doing the “right” thing for winning’s sake. Who knows that rivalry better? Maybe Braun. He knew the backlash was coming in hurricane waves for the rest of his life.
On the other hand, he puts up two bad years in Milwaukee in 24 and 25 and he could be gone. No loyalty the other way either to a point.

 

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, TURBO said:

Yeah, made no sense.  Either he was naïve, or just plain lying.

He knew and knows exactly what he did. He lit the match and then smiled and burned that relationship bridge with Milwaukee as a fan, player, and coach…..figuring his odds of winning just went up. And  figuring he is doing the “right” thing for winning’s sake. Who knows that rivalry better? Maybe Braun. He knew the backlash was coming in hurricane waves for the rest of his life.
On the other hand, he puts up two bad years in Milwaukee in 24 and 25 and he could be gone. No loyalty the other way either to a point.

 

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, TURBO said:

Yeah, made no sense.  Either he was naïve, or just plain lying.

He knew and knows exactly what he did. He lit the match and then smiled and burned that relationship bridge with Milwaukee as a fan, player, and coach…..figuring his odds of winning just went up. And  figuring he is doing the “right” thing for winning’s sake. Who knows that rivalry better? Maybe Braun. He knew the backlash was coming in hurricane waves for the rest of his life.
On the other hand, he puts up two bad years in Milwaukee in 24 and 25 and he could be gone. No loyalty the other way either to a point.

 

[Guest]

Some folks forget that it's a job for player and coaches... would you suddenly hate a friend at work that decided to go work somewhere else because they got offered more money?

Wasn't the park named after CC vandalized near Milwaukee? Maybe that's what he was referencing when he said he was surprised by reaction...

[Dragonbait]

I don't hate the guy... but I do not wish him any success. 

[wallus]

44 minutes ago, EddieTheCousin said:

Some folks forget that it's a job for player and coaches... would you suddenly hate a friend at work that decided to go work somewhere else because they got offered more money?

A rival company that you compete with? Yes.

[markedman5]

1 hour ago, EddieTheCousin said:

Some folks forget that it's a job for player and coaches... would you suddenly hate a friend at work that decided to go work somewhere else because they got offered more money?

Wasn't the park named after CC vandalized near Milwaukee? Maybe that's what he was referencing when he said he was surprised by reaction...

Let’s see……he grew up in Milwaukee ……his dad worked for the Brewers…..so he grew up a Brewers fan…….he ended his playing career here.

When his career was over he thought he might want to eventually be a GM……so the Brewers hired him into the front office. 
 

Then when Melvin decided to make a mid season managerial change he went to Attanasio and convinced him to hire him……even though he had no coaching or managerial experience at any level.

So yes I think the Brewers thought this was more than just the typical employer employee relationship……….Craig had said it was on many occasions…….and yet in the end……he decided not only to leave( something managers have rarely ever done) so that was disappointing but people ultimately would have been ok with it…….but he then decides that his decade long association with the Brewers…..his hometown team….meant so little to him that he said yeah I think I’ll join the Cubs ……

Again……I don’t hate him…..it’s his life he can do what he wants……but yeah as a Brewers fan…… I don’t care for what he did……and I could never have done it.

[Brian]

1 hour ago, Dragonbait said:

I don't hate the guy... but I do not wish him any success. 

He is a back stabber.

[dlk9s]

1 hour ago, wallus said:

A rival company that you compete with? Yes.

That's insane.

[LouisEly]

13 hours ago, TURBO said:

I hope they never win a game under his watch.

I hope his career from this day forward is so horrible that he wishes he never left.

I hope they finish one game out of the playoffs every season so that not only do they not make the playoffs, but they get the worst possible draft position for not making the playoffs, and the Chicago media needles and questions every decision he made that could have cost them that one game that would have gotten them into the playoffs so that he realizes how good he had it in Milwaukee.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, markedman5 said:

So yes I think the Brewers thought this was more than just the typical employer employee relationship……….Craig had said it was on many occasions…….and yet in the end……he decided not only to leave( something managers have rarely ever done)

It's never more than an employee/employer relationship. Never. Whether it's baseball or a regular 9-5 job - everyone is replaceable and everyone gets replaced eventually.

Also, managers leave and change jobs all the time, no idea why you are saying it's rarely done....

At the end of the day, the Brewers wouldn't pay Craig what someone else would. Brewers could have kept him if they paid him.... they chose not to. There is blame on both sides as to why is no longer in Milwaukee.... the Craig hate is embarrassing at this point.

Everyone of y'all would leave your current job if you had an offer to increase your salary by the level Craig did.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, wallus said:

A rival company that you compete with? Yes.

Why?

[treego14]

14 minutes ago, EddieTheCousin said:

It's never more than an employee/employer relationship. Never. Whether it's baseball or a regular 9-5 job - everyone is replaceable and everyone gets replaced eventually.

Also, managers leave and change jobs all the time, no idea why you are saying it's rarely done....

At the end of the day, the Brewers wouldn't pay Craig what someone else would. Brewers could have kept him if they paid him.... they chose not to. There is blame on both sides as to why is no longer in Milwaukee.... the Craig hate is embarrassing at this point.

Everyone of y'all would leave your current job if you had an offer to increase your salary by the level Craig did.

Not me ... I am loyal !!!

[Pugger]

10 hours ago, dlk9s said:

That's insane.

Not completely.  If you worked in management for Burger King and got an offer to work for McDonald's down the street you won't be getting Christmas cards from the folks at BK next year.  

I have no problem with CC wanting to get the big bucks and have a chance to manage a franchise with deeper pockets than Milwaukee but to go a divisional rival?  Really?  Good lord.  This entire saga reminds me of Favre and the Vikings.  It was extra sweet to beat the Cubs yesterday and I hope we take the series.

[markedman5]

43 minutes ago, EddieTheCousin said:

It's never more than an employee/employer relationship. Never. Whether it's baseball or a regular 9-5 job - everyone is replaceable and everyone gets replaced eventually.

Also, managers leave and change jobs all the time, no idea why you are saying it's rarely done....

At the end of the day, the Brewers wouldn't pay Craig what someone else would. Brewers could have kept him if they paid him.... they chose not to. There is blame on both sides as to why is no longer in Milwaukee.... the Craig hate is embarrassing at this point.

Everyone of y'all would leave your current job if you had an offer to increase your salary by the level Craig did.

I disagree and I think it’s incredibly sad that you have never had a job that it was nothing but transactional for you. 
 

I certainly have……..as far as managers leaving……most mlb managers don’t play out their contracts and then join another organization…….not when they are wanted……they quietly sign an extension and that’s it……

ps please don’t tell me what I would do…….you don’t know me.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

I disagree and I think it’s incredibly sad that you have never had a job that it was nothing but transactional for you.

 

It's always a job and it's always transactional no matter the profession. It's incredibly sad for folks that have to learn that the hard way.

That doesn't mean you can't meet some great people and make lifelong friends at work.... but loyalty from an employer is an illusion and the sooner you learn that in life, the better.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

Not completely.  If you worked in management for Burger King and got an offer to work for McDonald's down the street you won't be getting Christmas cards from the folks at BK next year. 

That's insane.

I have made plenty of lifelong friends at old jobs when I went to a "rival" and stayed friends with plenty of folks that went to the competition.

Many times those same folks I've worked with again later in life - I've hired some back and/or referred some and conversely, having those relationships have helped me get jobs.

[markedman5]

4 minutes ago, EddieTheCousin said:

 

It's always a job and it's always transactional no matter the profession. It's incredibly sad for folks that have to learn that the hard way.

That doesn't mean you can't meet some great people and make lifelong friends at work.... but loyalty from an employer is an illusion and the sooner you learn that in life, the better.

Lol……..I ran a staffing firm for 30 years…….please don’t lecture me about the business……..if you think every employer and every employee has the same view that you have you are mistaken……but to each his own.

ok I think we are done here.

Back to baseball 

 

 

 

[wallus]

19 hours ago, dlk9s said:

That's insane.

Not at all.

[wallus]

8 hours ago, markedman5 said:

I disagree and I think it’s incredibly sad that you have never had a job that it was nothing but transactional for you. 
 

I certainly have……..as far as managers leaving……most mlb managers don’t play out their contracts and then join another organization…….not when they are wanted……they quietly sign an extension and that’s it……

ps please don’t tell me what I would do…….you don’t know me.

Right, it's like people have never had a job based on commission or personal relationships where this would be a major problem.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, wallus said:

Not at all.

So.... you'll stop being friends with someone that you work with when they chose to improve their quality of life by getting a better job?

Really?!?

[LouisEly]

I think the disconnect is that it is extremely unlikely that any of us have made what a MLB player or manager makes.  For us, a vast majority of us would take a 30% raise if a competitor offered it to us.  Not all, but most.  For most of us, that's probably not going to be a lot more than $30K per year, if that.  For most of us, that $30K/year makes a big difference though.  Significantly more than $30K/year, and it can be life-changing.

But what if we already had made $30M in our career?  Would an incremental couple of million make a big difference in our lives?  Probably not, because we've already made $30M.  Barring idiotic financial mismanagement, we (should be) set for life for several generations.

Counsell made at least $20M in 15 years as a player and at least $10M as a manager with MKE for 9 years, maybe closer to $40M total.  Does he really need an extra $3M/year?  No, he's already made at least $30M.  Will an extra $3M be life-changing for him?  No, he's already made $30M. 

I think that's the point.  If he hadn't played 15 years in the majors and had worked his way up through the minors as a manager and never had a big payday before, sure, I could understand this first big contract being life-changing.

I think that most of us though, if we had already made $30M in our career, wouldn't jump to a competitor for a raise if our employer really wanted us to be there and offered us $5M/year to stay.  We would have to really not like it there or want to stick it to our former employer for some reason to jump ship when we're already set for generations. 

Leaving for more money, when you've already made at least $30M in your career and have an offer of $5M/year to stick around, is either greed or revenge.