2024 - 25 Wisconsin Basketball Thread

[Oxy]

27 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Zrno is from Bosnia and would need to come here on a student visa, so he cannot collect NIL.  People with student visas cannot come to the US to "work"/make money.

Riiigght. Thanks.

[Playing Catch]

14 hours ago, Oxy said:

Riiigght. Thanks.

Well, if you are suggesting that Zrno committed to Indiana because of a bag of money, and he decommits soon after a coaching change, are you suggesting the timing is a coincidence, or that Woodson was, in a specific way, the conduit for a bag of money?

[RedStickBrew]

14 minutes ago, Playing Catch said:

Well, if you are suggesting that Zrno committed to Indiana because of a bag of money, and he decommits soon after a coaching change, are you suggesting the timing is a coincidence, or that Woodson was, in a specific way, the conduit for a bag of money?

Based on the schools that he visited I’m guessing his $bag isn’t that big. Probably most high major schools would be able to put something competitive together for him

[Samurai Bucky]

I see the line for the BYU game is Wisconsin -1.5.  If Wisconsin plays like they did against Purdue or Arizona, I think it will be a certain victory.  It does concern me how they have played the last couple of weeks (sans the game against UCLA).

[RedStickBrew]

55 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I see the line for the BYU game is Wisconsin -1.5.  If Wisconsin plays like they did against Purdue or Arizona, I think it will be a certain victory.  It does concern me how they have played the last couple of weeks (sans the game against UCLA).

I second your concern for this game. Just don’t know what to think of this match up.

The positives for me are that we did not play a tough, physically demanding game 1, get more rest at altitude, and Tonje is due for another good game

[Underachiever]

2 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

Based on the schools that he visited I’m guessing his $bag isn’t that big. Probably most high major schools would be able to put something competitive together for him

Zach Edey certainly got paid, despite being Canadian and on a student visa. I think if a player is paid in their home country, it’s ok. Maybe Indiana has some Balkan connections. Zrno committed to Indiana despite the uncertainty around Woodson. Perhaps they had a particular major he fell in love with, but it’s not outrageous to suggest that there was a nice $ package put together for him.

[RedStickBrew]

10 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Zach Edey certainly got paid, despite being Canadian and on a student visa. I think if a player is paid in their home country, it’s ok. Maybe Indiana has some Balkan connections. Zrno committed to Indiana despite the uncertainty around Woodson. Perhaps they had a particular major he fell in love with, but it’s not outrageous to suggest that there was a nice $ package put together for him.

Rules have changed also since Edey. Purdue played a game in Canada so he could get paid some NIL. The NCAA has been decimated in court recently and essentially there are no rules as to how players are paid or who pays them. NIL is still a thing for many players as a vehicle in which to have a contractual agreement between players and schools for the most part. 

[Oxy]

4 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Well, if you are suggesting that Zrno committed to Indiana because of a bag of money, and he decommits soon after a coaching change, are you suggesting the timing is a coincidence, or that Woodson was, in a specific way, the conduit for a bag of money?

I am suggesting that there are ways to get around the rules, he committed to IU because of money, and the coaching change gave him an excuse to re-open the bidding war while knowing what the bottom of the market is (his deal with IU). 

Also, I am a know-nothing internet speculator whose thoughts on the subject have no basis in any reality other than reading between the tea leaves.

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

I second your concern for this game. Just don’t know what to think of this match up.

The positives for me are that we did not play a tough, physically demanding game 1, get more rest at altitude, and Tonje is due for another good game

The ball pops around the perimeter pretty well in BYUs' halfcourt offense. Gard mentioned how they got their 'bite' back defensively after Penn State. They'll need it. Scouting, anticipating where people like to shoot from & beating them to the spot, minimizing the 'stand still' looks will be big. And keep the unusually huge PG from getting into the lane (In that regard, Blackwell getting early fouls scares me. I'd put Janicki on him when he's in the game).

Offensively, if we get good ball/man movement we should find some open looks. I thought BYUs' defense looked mostly OK on Thursday, but certainly we should be able to apply more pressure than VCU did. And while their bigs weren't bad, Winter & especially Crowl have a size edge that needs to be established. And hopefully they can draw some fouls. The Cougars have some depth but I think most of the real quality depth is in the backcourt.

I've said it before, but I'd love to see the return of the 10-12 PPG Max Klesmit.

[LouisEly]

6 hours ago, RedStickBrew said:

Rules have changed also since Edey. Purdue played a game in Canada so he could get paid some NIL. The NCAA has been decimated in court recently and essentially there are no rules as to how players are paid or who pays them. NIL is still a thing for many players as a vehicle in which to have a contractual agreement between players and schools for the most part. 

No.  Has nothing to do with the NCAA rules (or lack thereof) and everything to do with federal law around student visas.  People in the US on a student visa cannot be here to make money.  If they do, and don't report it and it gets discovered, then they are in violation of federal law and their student visa gets revoked.  If they are no longer a student, they have to get a green card which, if they are found to violate federal law around a visa, gets revoked and they are ineligible to play professionally in the US and they will not get another visa or green card anytime soon.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

4 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

The ball pops around the perimeter pretty well in BYUs' halfcourt offense. Gard mentioned how they got their 'bite' back defensively after Penn State. They'll need it. Scouting, anticipating where people like to shoot from & beating them to the spot, minimizing the 'stand still' looks will be big. And keep the unusually huge PG from getting into the lane (In that regard, Blackwell getting early fouls scares me. I'd put Janicki on him when he's in the game).

Offensively, if we get good ball/man movement we should find some open looks. I thought BYUs' defense looked mostly OK on Thursday, but certainly we should be able to apply more pressure than VCU did. And while their bigs weren't bad, Winter & especially Crowl have a size edge that needs to be established. And hopefully they can draw some fouls. The Cougars have some depth but I think most of the real quality depth is in the backcourt.

I've said it before, but I'd love to see the return of the 10-12 PPG Max Klesmit.

Yeah, it's a fun game because BYU is basically us. They play offense at a similar level, at close to the same pace (a little faster), and they play a lot of guys, most of whom can shoot. They are deeper. We guard much better.

In theory, it should be a good matchup for us. We're about at their level in terms of offensive efficiency and guard way better. 1.5 as a line seems too low to me, I'd take UW to cover while acknowledging anything can happen. You've got to be a pretty big believer in altitude to make it basically a toss-up. I'd guess KenPom has us favored by 3-4.

 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

4 hours ago, LouisEly said:

No.  Has nothing to do with the NCAA rules (or lack thereof) and everything to do with federal law around student visas.  People in the US on a student visa cannot be here to make money.  If they do, and don't report it and it gets discovered, then they are in violation of federal law and their student visa gets revoked.  If they are no longer a student, they have to get a green card which, if they are found to violate federal law around a visa, gets revoked and they are ineligible to play professionally in the US and they will not get another visa or green card anytime soon.

Okay, but can they be here to go to school? Because NIL is not a salary (the NCAA has been pretty clear on this point). It's simply the benefit of being good at sports. These guys are not employees. They're students, right? I get the law is designed to clearly separate "study" from "employment" and NIL's financial volume seems to put it into the latter category. But I would also imagine somebody could make a claim in court that federal requirements around "work" and "active income" don't apply to NIL and have a decent shot at a favorable ruling.

Not disagreeing here, really. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong and others have a more specific understanding of the case law. It just looks to me like you can maintain an F-1 visa if your income is passive. A lot of NIL deals are structured that way, or at least close to it, so it seems this is an issue we'll see in the courts at some point. Lots of ambiguity.

I'm also skeptical that whichever gutted federal department is assigned student visa oversight is ever going to be competent enough to effectively punish international athletes, and there seems to me zero chance this administration has any political interest in doing so, even if they were capable of actually making competent policy on these layered and complicated issues. Seems like a risk I'd be willing to take if I'm a university, or even a high-major hooper.

 

[LouisEly]

They are being paid for their name, image, and likeness by an organization in the United States which is earning income in the United States which is in violation of the rules on having a student visa.

If they didn't revoke the athlete's student visa, there would be federal lawsuits by every foreign student who was denied the opportunity to earn income or who was kicked out of the US for violation of that rule for having a student visa (as well as likely every upcoming opponent of that school).  If they didn't report the income, then they didn't pay taxes on it, which is then tax evasion which is a felony, which also gets your visa revoked as well as possible imprisonment.

And would you really risk your visa getting revoked and being permanently denied entry into the United States?

[RedStickBrew]

International players are certainly being paid. They just can’t cash in on NIL- legally- if I understand that correctly.  

[LouisEly]

I'd love to go to the game today, but right now the cheapest ticket in the entire arena is $240 in the 3rd deck.  Absurd.

Ten years ago I paid $400 for a ticket in the 2nd level to the national championship game for a game that was within driving distance of Wisconsin.  I'll pay $240 for a good seat, but not for the 3rd level.

Screw the NCAA for selling tickets to these games well before the teams are announced and feeding the scalpers, and for only giving each team 500 tickets.  I had basketball season ticket holders request tickets and they were gone before they got down to their level of "donations".   Hopefully this is the next NCAA lawsuit.

Yeah, nobody's scalping tickets...

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, RedStickBrew said:

International players are certainly being paid. They just can’t cash in on NIL- legally- if I understand that correctly.  

It would be shocking to me if that wasn't so. And AFA to how to go about doing it, I have no idea but there are a lot of programs that have paid players for years, before it was allowed. They're experts. 

[RedStickBrew]

23 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

It would be shocking to me if that wasn't so. And AFA to how to go about doing it, I have no idea but there are a lot of programs that have paid players for years, before it was allowed. They're experts. 

Look no further than Illinois. They have two NBA bound international players. Those two did not forego being paid professionally in Europe to play for free in lovely Champaign. I don’t know exactly how but it is legal for them to be paid directly by donors. The NCAA has no way to enforce rules about payments anymore

[Oxy]

19 hours ago, LouisEly said:

No.  Has nothing to do with the NCAA rules (or lack thereof) and everything to do with federal law around student visas.  People in the US on a student visa cannot be here to make money.  If they do, and don't report it and it gets discovered, then they are in violation of federal law and their student visa gets revoked.  If they are no longer a student, they have to get a green card which, if they are found to violate federal law around a visa, gets revoked and they are ineligible to play professionally in the US and they will not get another visa or green card anytime soon.

Again, they can make money when they are out of the country if they are not being paid (directly) by an American for specific services...i.e. employment.  Teams who played tournaments outside of the country or did one of those summer travel tours were able to get their foreign players paid/NIL/whatever-you-wanna-call-it.  Even if a team doesn't schedule one of those things, players are free to travel on their own.  It's not that hard to get around the red tape.

[Jim French Stepstool]

34 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

Look no further than Illinois. They have two NBA bound international players. Those two did not forego being paid professionally in Europe to play for free in lovely Champaign. I don’t know exactly how but it is legal for them to be paid directly by donors. The NCAA has no way to enforce rules about payments anymore

Maybe not all of them will enter immediately, but I count three---Ivisic, Jakucionis & Riley (Canada).

I can't say he's a close friend or anything, but I went to HS with Bruce Weber & know him well enough that he's the only coach at Illinois in the past half-century that I would feel confident was relatively clean w/the possible exception of Groce. Yet years ago Illinois fans screamed bloody murder about Bruce Pearl when he was an ass't at Iowa & afterward. The height of hypocrisy.

[RedStickBrew]

8 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Maybe not all of them will enter immediately, but I count three---Ivisic, Jakucionis & Riley (Canada).

I can't say he's a close friend or anything, but I went to HS with Bruce Weber & know him well enough that he's the only coach at Illinois in the past half-century that I would feel confident was relatively clean w/the possible exception of Groce. Yet years ago Illinois fans screamed bloody murder about Bruce Pearl when he was an ass't at Iowa & afterward. The height of hypocrisy.

I forgot about Riley. He looks to be a good one too.

By the rules today, Illinois is not doing anything illegal to my knowledge.  @LouisElyis also correct that international players can’t collect NIL revenue specifically 

[Jim French Stepstool]

54 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

...to my knowledge...

Those three words. The fulcrum that a lot of college programs hinge on---or used to hinge on before "cheating became legal" so to speak. Nothing concrete, at least as of now, but to me Underwood smells a lot more like Lou Henson & Bill Self than Weber. And your three best players coming from across the border have a lot to do with that.

54 minutes ago, RedStickBrew said:

 

[adambr2]

Lazy effort by Crowl on both ends going for loose balls followed by an awful bail-out foul by Klesmit. Going to be a quick tourney exit if they don’t start showing a little more energy than this.

[igor67]

https://comicon.com/2025/03/18/fresh-risks-to-foreign-comic-creators-doing-comic-cons-in-the-usa-canada-emerge/

This would seem to indicate that things are being handled differently now on the enforcement side well beyond anything happening with the NCAA.

[adambr2]

Klesmit has had an absolutely brutal tournament.

[OldHeidelberg]

13 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Lazy effort by Crowl on both ends going for loose balls followed by an awful bail-out foul by Klesmit. Going to be a quick tourney exit if they don’t start showing a little more energy than this.

In both cases I thought maybe there was a whistle or maybe Crowl knew it was off the other guy? Weird, and awful start to this game.