2024-25 Offseason Ideas

[Scooterfletcher]

4 hours ago, endaround said:

Are you serious? Unless that piece or two includes Misiorowski that's not happening.

Williams Patrick and Mears for Mayer would be my proposal.

[Redd Vencher]

3 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Williams Patrick and Mears for Mayer would be my proposal.

Your proposal is getting laughed off the phone and your number blocked forever.

[Scooterfletcher]

5 hours ago, Redd Vencher said:

Your proposal is getting laughed off the phone and your number blocked forever.

Cant wait to see the dominance that this Mayer “prospect” displays to back the condescension I have here.  #coldtakesexposed 

[Redd Vencher]

2 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Cant wait to see the dominance that this Mayer “prospect” displays to back the condescension I have here.  #coldtakesexposed 

Would you have traded Chourio for 1 year of Williams, Nick Mears, and Chad Patrick? If not, why would you expect a team to trade their consensus top 10 prospect for that?

[jay87shot]

I know we have done the Yeli trade back and forth the past couple years. The where would he accept a trade to and who would take on his contract etc. etc.. For just now lets say he would accept a trade to anywhere what would be some interesting deals?

1) Yeli to Seattle for Luis Castillo    We get a top of the rotation arm and the Mariners get an badly needed offense upgrade.

2) Yeli to Toronto for Kevin Gausman and a 10-20 prospect   Similar to the Castillo deal but we get a little sweetener because Gausman is a little more risky in my opinion.

3) Yeli and Williams (prospects) to Texas for Marcus Siemen and Nate Lowe     I doubt the Rangers trade Semien but they have some infield depth that they could turn into OF/DH and a closer. We get 2 perfect players for our team.

4)Mets for Jeff McNeil (and prospects)     Basically the Mets would be taking on salary and we would get long term salary relief, a versatile vet for 3B or utility, and some prospects. Not a huge fan

5) Dodgers for Miguel Rojas and Bobby Miller (more?)   The Dodgers have all the money in the world so why not.

6) Padres for Jake Cronenworth and prospects   I dont want anything to do with Manny, Tatis, or Bogeartz, Cronenworth is versatile enough to help at 1B/2B and maybe 3B. I'm not a huge fan but the Pads have OF holes potentially. 

7) for Robbie Ray and prospects    The Giants have been looking for a big name and have some extra pitching. Ray isn't my favorite but has some potential ace history.

8)Yeli for Arenado     I don't think this makes a ton of sense for St. Louis since Arenado has been healthy but maybe we add one of our 3B prospects to get closer. They do have Gorman and Walker who are better suited for 3B then 2B or the OF/1B.

9) Yeli for Carlos Rodon (Yanks eat 10 milly a year)   I guess this could make some sense if the Yanks lose Soto and can sign a pitcher. (I can't see Yeli accept a NY trade).

There might be a few more.

[StearnsFTW]

On 10/23/2024 at 1:30 PM, patrickgpe said:

Williams should get something back similar to Burnes, I agree your proposal is more realistic. How about Ceddanne Rafaela  and Sandlin or Meidroth?

Burnes was worth way more than Williams is.

[patrickgpe]

6 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

Burnes was worth way more than Williams is.

that's fair, but is 1 year of Williams worth about the same as 1 year , 2  months of Hader. He netted us a top pitching prospect and the prospect that got us the best catcher in the NL.  

EDIT: and yes I understand there is extra value of having a closer for 2 postseasons, rather than one, but you should get better than middling prospects for Williams. 

[StearnsFTW]

41 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

that's fair, but is 1 year of Williams worth about the same as 1 year , 2  months of Hader. He netted us a top pitching prospect and the prospect that got us the best catcher in the NL.  

EDIT: and yes I understand there is extra value of having a closer for 2 postseasons, rather than one, but you should get better than middling prospects for Williams. 

I think less than Hader (rightfully so as you mentioned).

It was posed in the Devin trade thread as a mid-tier prospect and 2 lottery tickets.  That's about what I think they'll get if they go for prospects.  Borderline top 100 guy and a couple 18 year olds.

Having said that, I think they're going to try to trade him for help for the big club. 

[endaround]

40 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

that's fair, but is 1 year of Williams worth about the same as 1 year , 2  months of Hader. He netted us a top pitching prospect and the prospect that got us the best catcher in the NL.  

EDIT: and yes I understand there is extra value of having a closer for 2 postseasons, rather than one, but you should get better than middling prospects for Williams. 

The Brewers took back a ton of salary in the Hader trade.

[nate82]

How about Will Wagner as a utility player upgrade.  He won’t wow anyone with his stats but he would fill a hole for the Brewers.  I am just not sure what the Blue Jays would want for him as he is pre-arb.

[BrewerFan]

8 hours ago, endaround said:

The Brewers took back a ton of salary in the Hader trade.

The Brewers took back roughly ~1M more than was going out in the Hader deal. That's...not really a ton of money,. even for the Brewers. 

That's also a bigger factor for an in-season trade as it helped get the Pads under the luxury tax...which they were just hanging around. 

[jay87shot]

17 hours ago, nate82 said:

How about Will Wagner as a utility player upgrade.  He won’t wow anyone with his stats but he would fill a hole for the Brewers.  I am just not sure what the Blue Jays would want for him as he is pre-arb.

The Jays have some interesting IF depth with Vladdy, Bichette, Horwitz, Wagner, Clement, Barger, and Martinez. My thought would be that would want to keep Wagner for 2B and have Clement, Barger, and Martinez battle out 3B. Horwitz plays more 1B/OF and Vladdy DH's more. I would love Wagner and probably just make him the everyday 2B, moving Turang to SS. I do doubt the Jays would trade Wagner, however Clement, Martinez, or Barger might be gettable at a decent value. Clement was worth over 3 WAR and Barger and Martinez both were/are decent prospects who are ready. Clement doesn't walk at all but is a good fielder and Barger and Martinez both have power but might not hit enough. They do need some relief depth maybe Peguero and Canadian Dylan O'Rae for Martinez or Barger wouldn't be a bad idea.

[jay87shot]

19 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

that's fair, but is 1 year of Williams worth about the same as 1 year , 2  months of Hader. He netted us a top pitching prospect and the prospect that got us the best catcher in the NL.  

EDIT: and yes I understand there is extra value of having a closer for 2 postseasons, rather than one, but you should get better than middling prospects for Williams. 

Don't forget Taylor Rogers who had been a solid reliever for 4-5 years and even a decent closer. He probably would have been worth an additional prospect but the Pads needed to shed salary. Lamet was a nothing part of the trade however.

[Scooterfletcher]

Do we have room for both Moncada AND Polanco?  I don’t think signing both would break the bank by any means, and with the versatility of Turang and Ortiz, I’d love to sign both and move on from Montasario.   Play the hottest three bats amongst Turang, Ortiz, Moncada, and Polanco at the non 1b infield positions with the remaining player available to pinch hit.   This seems like a shrewd hedge to me to sign both players and likely we’d be able to have a good offense at the infield with these two signings.  Thoughts?

[sveumrules]

59 minutes ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Do we have room for both Moncada AND Polanco?  I don’t think signing both would break the bank by any means, and with the versatility of Turang and Ortiz, I’d love to sign both and move on from Montasario.   Play the hottest three bats amongst Turang, Ortiz, Moncada, and Polanco at the non 1b infield positions with the remaining player available to pinch hit.   This seems like a shrewd hedge to me to sign both players and likely we’d be able to have a good offense at the infield with these two signings.  Thoughts?

Last four years Polanco has seen his K% go from 18.3% to 21.3% to 25.7 % to 29.2%. His wRC+ over that same stretch has gone from 124 to 118 to 117 to 92. These two things are likely related.

His -20 FRV at 2B is the worst among 24 keystoners with at least 2,000 innings since 2021, though DRS thinks he's been closer to scratch at +2. Given he was among the worst defensive SS in MLB from 2016-22 with -40 DRS and -24 FRV, I'd imagine he falls short of the Brewers defensive threshold. 

[TURBO]

2 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

 Play the hottest three bats amongst Turang, Ortiz, Moncada, and Polanco at the non 1b infield positions with the remaining player available to pinch hit.   

This seems like a pretty flawed way to conduct business.

How does the odd man out, who isn't one of the hottest three, get back to being one of the hot ones?  Depending on a manager to play the hottest three bats at any given time, seems a bit strange.  This isn't taking into account past history vs a pitcher, L/R match-up, etc.

Yeah, this isn't a good strategy in general, much less realistic in today's game.

[Scooterfletcher]

Well I reckon we look at the wars of Moncada and Polanco and find an improvement over what the brewer bass or the know-it-all posters here have for an idea.

[jay87shot]

9 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Well I reckon we look at the wars of Moncada and Polanco and find an improvement over what the brewer bass or the know-it-all posters here have for an idea.

I think the brass will try and get a young controllable guy as much as possible, if that doesn't work my money is leading toward Luis Rengifo as a bridge to our prospects. Moncada and Polanco are kind of end of the offseason emergency adds if nothing goes our way type of guys in my book. I could live with either but there seems to be a dozen or so other options to explore 1st.

[Redd Vencher]

3 hours ago, jay87shot said:

I think the brass will try and get a young controllable guy as much as possible, if that doesn't work my money is leading toward Luis Rengifo as a bridge to our prospects. Moncada and Polanco are kind of end of the offseason emergency adds if nothing goes our way type of guys in my book. I could live with either but there seems to be a dozen or so other options to explore 1st.

Angels are raising payroll this offseason, so I doubt they trade Rengifo.

[Redd Vencher]

13 hours ago, Scooterfletcher said:

Well I reckon we look at the wars of Moncada and Polanco and find an improvement over what the brewer bass or the know-it-all posters here have for an idea.

As the person who put Moncada and Polanco in your head as options, there are better options all around. Gleyber Torres and Ha-Seong Kim were names on the FA market more desirable. Torres' play the final weeks of the season and throughout the playoffs likely mean he's no longer available on a pillow deal. Some people think with the shoulder injury keeping Kim out until mid April means he's in line for a pillow deal this offseason. If that's the case, he's a perfect fit for the Brewers. A plus defender at SS, 2B, and 3B with a 106 wRC+ over the last 3 seasons. 

[Scooterfletcher]

1 hour ago, Redd Vencher said:

As the person who put Moncada and Polanco in your head as options, there are better options all around. Gleyber Torres and Ha-Seong Kim were names on the FA market more desirable. Torres' play the final weeks of the season and throughout the playoffs likely mean he's no longer available on a pillow deal. Some people think with the shoulder injury keeping Kim out until mid April means he's in line for a pillow deal this offseason. If that's the case, he's a perfect fit for the Brewers. A plus defender at SS, 2B, and 3B with a 106 wRC+ over the last 3 seasons. 

I like both of these two as well as Rengifo.  

[wntrtxn21]

3 hours ago, Redd Vencher said:

As the person who put Moncada and Polanco in your head as options, there are better options all around. Gleyber Torres and Ha-Seong Kim were names on the FA market more desirable. Torres' play the final weeks of the season and throughout the playoffs likely mean he's no longer available on a pillow deal. Some people think with the shoulder injury keeping Kim out until mid April means he's in line for a pillow deal this offseason. If that's the case, he's a perfect fit for the Brewers. A plus defender at SS, 2B, and 3B with a 106 wRC+ over the last 3 seasons. 

I don't see Torres as being a more desirable option. The Brewers put a premium on defense and Torres is a well below average fielder. I believe that eliminates him right away. Plus he's going to be asking far more than he's worth to Milwaukee. Kim is a good defender but he probably isn't available to start the season and he doesn't have the power the Brewers need.  I think Milwaukee trades for a 3B and signs DeJong/Urshela (or both) as backups. 

 

[Redd Vencher]

41 minutes ago, wntrtxn21 said:

I don't see Torres as being a more desirable option. The Brewers put a premium on defense and Torres is a well below average fielder. I believe that eliminates him right away. Plus he's going to be asking far more than he's worth to Milwaukee. Kim is a good defender but he probably isn't available to start the season and he doesn't have the power the Brewers need.  I think Milwaukee trades for a 3B and signs DeJong/Urshela (or both) as backups. 

 

Torres has earned himself a multiyear deal with his play the last month and a half that I want no part of. He's the up the middle Willy Adames bat replacement guy, and you live with his defense for a year on a pillow contract, which is no longer on the table barring his FA market failing to materialize.

 

A 3.5 WAR player avaliable on a 1 year deal would be ideal to the Brewers even if he doesn't have the power to replace Adames.

 

I proposed several 3B via trade before. I still think that's a good possibility for putting together the 2025 IF. My whole point was addressing Scooter's saltiness that not everyone is on board with giving Moncada and Polanco $10 M a piece. As for the rest, I don't think DeJong signs to be a backup after the season he had, and I don't think Urshela has the versatility you would want from the bench.

[sveumrules]

Yeah, all these guys have warts, that's why they are theoretically available to begin with.

Even a guy like Rengifo, if the Angels were willing to move him has been absolutely brutal afield as well...

2B (2,460 inn.)
-9 DRS | -12 FRV

3B (850 inn.)
+1 DRS | -8 FRV

SS (625 inn.)
-5 DRS | -9 FRV

DeJong is maybe the most interesting to me of the "cheap veteran" options, but even then out of 186 players with at least 800 PAs the last two years his 5.0 BB% ranks 173rd and his 31.4 K% ranks 181st which predictably makes his 0.16 BB/K ratio 185th in the sample.

If he puts up a .285 BABIP and .200 ISO like he did this year, that shakes out to a perfectly cromulent 95 wRC+. But if his batted balls come in closer to the .264 BABIP and .148 ISO he posted in 2023 you're talking about a lowly 65 wRC+.

[nate82]

If the Dodgers sign Adames would that make Edman available from the Dodgers?  While he wouldn’t be the best 3B he wouldn’t be the worst defensively either.  Plus he could play other positions and will only cost about $10mm next year.  Not bad for a 1-year deal.

I don’t think it would cost all that much to get him from the Dodgers either.  Maybe a teams 15-20 ranked prospect and another lower level player probably someone from the DSL.