Cardinals (Gray) vs Brewers (Rea): 9/4/24, 6:40pm

[treego14]

3 minutes ago, Brian said:

All the other big boys have quadruple the payroll than the Brewers also, If anything get on Mark Attanasio. 

Get on MLB!  Mark Attanasio doesn't want to lose money ... I can't blame him.  MLB's payroll structuring is inherently unfair to small-market teams.

But again, the ultimate point here is IF we have any chance against the Dodgers, Phillies, etc., we have to be smarter given our payroll constraints. 

Papa Murphy is not giving me confidence he will be able to out-think the other team when it comes to strategy and in-game-management.

[Jim French Stepstool]

9 minutes ago, treego14 said:

No!

I called the result here in this thread BEFORE it happened BECAUSE I have been watching the process of Hoby Milner becoming a minor-league quality pitcher for some time now.

Then I'm convinced that you weren't paying attention to the AB last night, just looking at the result. His work AFA location & pitch selection was nothing like what he'd been doing earlier this year. Nothing. Again, find a manager that wouldn't take their chances with soft ground ball contact there.

Calling the negative result beforehand is kinda significant. Did you predict the ball wouldn't be pulled by a pull hitter & just sneak past Adames to his left, or was it just "It's Milner, he's giving up a hit"?

[wiguy94]

Just now, Jim French Stepstool said:

Then I'm convinced that you weren't paying attention to the AB last night, just looking at the result. His work AFA location & pitch selection was nothing like what he'd been doing earlier this year. Nothing. Again, find a manager that wouldn't take their chances with soft ground ball contact there.

Calling the negative result beforehand is kinda significant. Did you predict the ball wouldn't be pulled by a pull hitter & just sneak past Adames to his left, or was it just "It's Milner, he's giving up a hit"?

Baker's ground ball was 100 EV. That's not exactly "soft"

[treego14]

1 minute ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Then I'm convinced that you weren't paying attention to the AB last night, just looking at the result. His work AFA location & pitch selection was nothing like what he'd been doing earlier this year. Nothing. Again, find a manager that wouldn't take their chances with soft ground ball contact there.

Calling the negative result beforehand is kinda significant. Did you predict the ball wouldn't be pulled by a pull hitter & just sneak past Adames to his left, or was it just "It's Milner, he's giving up a hit"?

I have said what I said ... I stand by it.

Keep on defending Hoby Milner and Papa Murphy ... I expect you will be defending an early playoff exit once again as well.

[tmwiese55]

6 minutes ago, treego14 said:

Get on MLB!  Mark Attanasio doesn't want to lose money ... I can't blame him.  MLB's payroll structuring is inherently unfair to small-market teams.

But again, the ultimate point here is IF we have any chance against the Dodgers, Phillies, etc., we have to be smarter given our payroll constraints. 

Papa Murphy is not giving me confidence he will be able to out-think the other team when it comes to strategy and in-game-management.

OK we got it.  I think he's been good at this and that is a factor in their massive overachievement.   And I'm 100% confident if you watched all other teams there'd be just as many if not more of the questionable moves to pick on. Its part of the game, many of these things can really go either way with no one being a moron and then it comes to down to luck/chance after that. For example, if that grounder goes 10 ft to the left its a routine out. In addition, we're not privy to all the info/reasons behind some questionable moves which might force a manager's hand but we're not aware.    

As I said, I didn't get the Hoby one from the moment it happened. And none of this to say mistakes don't happen. But based on the results, he's doing much better at this than other managers but of course no one is perfect.    You can play the 'told you so' after the losses all you want though. I'd guess you weren't too vocal as they had just won like 7/8 games before that or whatever it was.

[Jim French Stepstool]

29 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Baker's ground ball was 100 EV. That's not exactly "soft"

Didn't think it was hit that well. OK. I'll still stand by my point about what they were trying to do to Baker & how they executed it. The right side was playing him to pull, he's a pull hitter, and he was being pitched soft. Given that Baker was able to wait, I guess Milner should've gone even softer.

[Brian]

1 minute ago, treego14 said:

Get on MLB!  Mark Attanasio doesn't want to lose money ... I can't blame him.  MLB's payroll structuring is inherently unfair to small-market teams.

But again, the ultimate point here is IF we have any chance against the Dodgers, Phillies, etc., we have to be smarter given our payroll constraints. 

Papa Murphy is not giving me confidence he will be able to out-think the other team when it comes to strategy and in-game-management.

Papa Murphy is twice the coach Counsell was IMHO,  I was just like you last year because I hated Counsell so much I almost stopped watching the Brewers. 

[Brian]

21 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Baker's ground ball was 100 EV. That's not exactly "soft"

 

[treego14]

5 minutes ago, Brian said:

Papa Murphy is twice the coach Counsell was IMHO,  I was just like you last year because I hated Counsell so much I almost stopped watching the Brewers. 

I will take Murphy over Counsell all day every day, still.

Murphy has just lost his shine a bit lately, though ... I don't like it.

[treego14]

4 minutes ago, Brian said:

100 is soft when players can through that hard a catch it. 

Huh?  

[Underachiever]

Where is exit velocity measured? Cause that 100 mph exit velocity with a -7 degree launch angle wasn’t going that fast when it got to Willy on the fifth bounce.

im not even sure exit velocity is an indicator of much when it’s pounded down like that. 

[Brian]

7 minutes ago, treego14 said:

Huh?  

My bad, sorry. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 minute ago, treego14 said:

I have said what I said ... I stand by it.

Keep on defending Hoby Milner and Papa Murphy ... I expect you will be defending an early playoff exit once again as well.

I'm defending what Milner did last night AFA his pitch selection, location to a pull hitter, and getting a ground ball. In this ONE game. It has nothing to do with April, May, or any other month of the '24 season in which Milner participated. His lousy season prior to last might-which doesn't sound like a defense to me- had nothing to do with what he turned in yesterday. Calling the correct pitch (as per the conference beforehand) & putting it where you want isn't always going to get you the result you want. You know, baseball.

It was a frustrating loss, I get it. And I've been critical at times of Murphy, too. Understanding the hows & whys of a particular instance & defending it doesn't mean people defend a player or manager 100% of the time. And I'm pretty sure no one wants an early exit from the playoffs (but given the youth of the position-player group, if they perform well in the playoffs but simply get outplayed I'm not going to dump all over them simply because I'm frustrated).

 

[wiguy94]

20 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Where is exit velocity measured? Cause that 100 mph exit velocity with a -7 degree launch angle wasn’t going that fast when it got to Willy on the fifth bounce.

im not even sure exit velocity is an indicator of much when it’s pounded down like that. 

EV is measured off the bat. Pitch velo is measured out of the hand.

[Jim French Stepstool]

33 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

OK we got it.  I think he's been good at this and that is a factor in their massive overachievement.   And I'm 100% confident if you watched all other teams there'd be just as many if not more of the questionable moves to pick on. Its part of the game, many of these things can really go either way with no one being a moron and then it comes to down to luck/chance after that. For example, if that grounder goes 10 ft to the left its a routine out. In addition, we're not privy to all the info/reasons behind some questionable moves which might force a manager's hand but we're not aware.    

 

I wish I remember who it was, but there was a poster on here that mentioned how many of these in-game decisions are like 55-45 or 60-40 type deals AFA regarding what the 'right' move is. And the point about being able to pick on moves of other teams if you watched them every day is 100% spot-on. I'm convinced that if the internet was invented 100 years ago we'd have been seeing message boards from '27 Yankee fans complaining about what a moron Miller Huggins was. In the previous decade there were many STL fans that ripped on LaRussa. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of randomness to baseball.

I think maybe the biggest plus to having Murphy in charge of this group is the relative youth in the position-player group & how he handles young'uns. Given the outlook this winter w/no Burnes & no Woodruff, I think that's a large part of the reason he got the job.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, tmwiese55 said:

 

And yea the pessimism is so funny to read, they'd just had one of their best hot streaks of the years, scored 14 runs a few days ago. Lose two games in extras and the sky is falling 

We recently had the 5-game winning streak vs LA & Cleveland, both division-leading teams. Check out some of the posts in the two games prior to that.

[Brian]

3 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

And yea the pessimism is so funny to read, they'd just had one of their best hot streaks of the years, scored 14 runs a few days ago. Lose two games in extras and the sky is falling 

Yes that is true but look at the last 4 games.  We are 1-3 and gave up 17 runs, and had 4 errors. Not playoff baseball. 

[BruisedCrew]

https://www.mlb.com/news/brewers-lose-rubber-game-against-cardinals

If Murphy posted here he would be blasted not just for his personnel moves but for being too pessimistic.

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/brewers-lose-rubber-game-against-cardinals

If Murphy posted here he would be blasted not just for his personnel moves but for being too pessimistic.

Murphy definitely loves to publicly throw the team and players under the bus while simultaneously rarely ever taking accountability for his mistakes.

[BruisedCrew]

4 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

 

And yea the pessimism is so funny to read, they'd just had one of their best hot streaks of the years, scored 14 runs a few days ago. Lose two games in extras and the sky is falling 

Not sure who said the sky is falling over the last two games. 

The concern is whether the offense is likely to produce against the best pitchers on a playoff team.

Scoring 10 runs in the ninth inning against a bottom of the bullpen pitcher and a catcher are not very relevant to that. 

[tmwiese55]

20 minutes ago, BruisedCrew said:

Not sure who said the sky is falling over the last two games. 

The concern is whether the offense is likely to produce against the best pitchers on a playoff team.

Scoring 10 runs in the ninth inning against a bottom of the bullpen pitcher and a catcher are not very relevant to that. 

Yea I get its tough to break the pessimism as WI sports fan and with how the Brewers have flamed out the last 5 years in the playoffs.   Its not like I expect them to win the WS either, but this is baseball even the best teams lose around 40% of their games. You just can't win them all so the team wins 7/8, obviously they're going to lose some soon (its baseball). That's not some grand indictment on the team or need to trash them, its just the game.  I don't think anyone here doesn't realize they have well under 10% chance to win it all, but that doesn't mean they're trash either.  And none of that says they don't have flaws or that in game decisions don't get made wrong, its just impossible to be perfect.

And even when they lose in the playoffs it will suck but due to the nature of the game it doesn't mean they're morons or terrible. Especially if its a 3 game series which is a virtual toss up.  And obviously the structure of the playoffs make it a crapshoot for all. Now add in the salary system its impossible for them not to have holes, which I think we all see and as you point out might ultimately F them. That doesn't mean they're bums, mismanaged, etc.  We're rooting for a boxer competing with arm tied behind his back here as MKE fans.  The one armed boxer is currently fighting way above its weight and every time they lose a game a faction trashes them claiming told ya so, then they bounce right back and folks go silent again.   Their #1 and #3 starters are out for the year, best or top 2-3 vet hitter is out for the year, their AS closer missed half the year.  They don't suck and they're not morons running the team to have pulled this off so far. 

[Recovering Chicagoan]

52 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Yea I get its tough to break the pessimism as WI sports fan and with how the Brewers have flamed out the last 5 years in the playoffs.   Its not like I expect them to win the WS either, but this is baseball even the best teams lose around 40% of their games. You just can't win them all so the team wins 7/8, obviously they're going to lose some soon (its baseball). That's not some grand indictment on the team or need to trash them, its just the game.  I don't think anyone here doesn't realize they have well under 10% chance to win it all, but that doesn't mean they're trash either.  And none of that says they don't have flaws or that in game decisions don't get made wrong, its just impossible to be perfect.

And even when they lose in the playoffs it will suck but due to the nature of the game it doesn't mean they're morons or terrible. Especially if its a 3 game series which is a virtual toss up.  And obviously the structure of the playoffs make it a crapshoot for all. Now add in the salary system its impossible for them not to have holes, which I think we all see and as you point out might ultimately F them. That doesn't mean they're bums, mismanaged, etc.  We're rooting for a boxer competing with arm tied behind his back here as MKE fans.  The one armed boxer is currently fighting way above its weight and every time they lose a game a faction trashes them claiming told ya so, then they bounce right back and folks go silent again.   Their #1 and #3 starters are out for the year, best or top 2-3 vet hitter is out for the year, their AS closer missed half the year.  They don't suck and they're not morons running the team to have pulled this off so far. 

I don't think anyone on this forum believes the team sucks and/or are morons when they lose games. Far from it. But, yeah, we perhaps get overly frustrated when they're not playing well on a given day. And unless they win the World Series this year, the disappointment will likely be palpable here at the end of their season.

[brewfanmn]

1 hour ago, BruisedCrew said:

Not sure who said the sky is falling over the last two games. 

The concern is whether the offense is likely to produce against the best pitchers on a playoff team.

Scoring 10 runs in the ninth inning against a bottom of the bullpen pitcher and a catcher are not very relevant to that. 

What about scoring more runs than almost any team in baseball all year long and not having their performance decline when they play winning teams? That feels relevant 

[tmwiese55]

13 minutes ago, Recovering Chicagoan said:

I don't think anyone on this forum believes the team sucks and/or are morons when they lose games. Far from it. But, yeah, we perhaps get overly frustrated when they're not playing well on a given day. And unless they win the World Series this year, the disappointment will likely be palpable here at the end of their season.

Well in just the last two pages this afternoon words of "brain dead", "very poor", "madness", not playoff baseball were all used. I don't even wanna see how bad it was last night.    Again, its baseball, the best teams lose 40% of the time, crap happens, no one can be perfect but the team has proven to bounce back over and over. Its probably best to go with the flow than have big reactions on game by game basis in baseball

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 minutes ago, Recovering Chicagoan said:

I don't think anyone on this forum believes the team sucks and/or are morons when they lose games. Far from it. But, yeah, we perhaps get overly frustrated when they're not playing well on a given day. And unless they win the World Series this year, the disappointment will likely be palpable here at the end of their season.

I feel that 'they suck' or 'so-and-so's a moron' or stuff similar to that comes out of everyones' mouth when watching a team that they live & die with, when things aren't going well. What I've never been able to understand is actually typing that stuff in the moment, rather than wanting to think about it & weigh your thoughts first. But I guess that's the nature of the IGT beast, and why I seldom if ever post while the game is going on. Not for me, but those who enjoy it, God bless ya.