Game 17: Bears @ Packers - Sunday, Jan. 5th 12:00 PM

[adambr2]

Lost in the many other issues with this game was how bad that last defensive playcall was. I don’t know whether it was Hafley or MLF, probably Hafley, but whoever it was, shame on them.

If you’re going to rush 3, which I already hate in general, you damn well better cover the middle of the field.

Instead, the Packers just protected the sidelines and left the middle wide open.

A modern day NFL offense, especially out of a timeout, is precise enough to do a quick pass for 15-20 yards over the middle, get down, get back to the line, and spike the ball, in less than 15 seconds.

Yet no matter how many times we see that happen, teams still leave the middle wide open.

[adambr2]

I guess I don’t blame them, but the Bears’ wild celebration was such a sad little brother moment for them. You just capped off a 5-12 season that began with such high expectations. I’d be re-examining the state of my franchise if that win was so meaningful to me.

[nate82]

3 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Side note of respect to whichever Bears player it was that was immediately motioning for trainers when Watson went down, I don’t even know if the play was over yet.

That was Jaylon Johnson.

[adambr2]

Me to my buddy this morning: “I think Jeff Hafley has done about as well as he can this year with what he has.”

Jeff Hafley, a few hours later with the game on the line and the Bears 15 yards from FG range: “Hey, check this out:”

 

[HarryDoyle]

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[adambr2]

18K views · 1.7K reactions | Gonna need an explanation for this one.....

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Gonna need an explanation for this one.. #nfl #nflfootball #nflfantasy #fantasyfootball #packers...

 

[adambr2]

16 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

This pretty much sums it up.

 

He summed it up perfectly.

Great X’s and O’s guy. Zero feel for in-game management.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I get what they were thinking. Probably thought the entire play would take a bit too long to get another snap off, so they had everyone sit back thinking they'd run around a little bit even if they caught the ball. The second worst thing about that play was that the man coverage was close enough that the tackle was made immediately. Didn't look like the WR was intent on surrendering himself, so if he'd run another 5 yards, the game is over. 

It's an idiotic defensive play call no less, and what I haven't seen anyone bring up is that they did the SAME THING against Minnesota. Completely white flagged a FG attempt to end the first half and defended against only a TD for some reason.

I've seen this so often where NFL HCs exaggerate how long it takes to run a play in these situations.

[yourout]

8 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Me to my buddy this morning: “I think Jeff Hafley has done about as well as he can this year with what he has.”

Jeff Hafley, a few hours later with the game on the line and the Bears 15 yards from FG range: “Hey, check this out:”

 

Yeah we better not ever see that formation again. 

[HarryDoyle]

Another thing that irks me about MLF yesterday was, what was the plan going into that game? Was it to win the game and a chance at the #6 seed or was it to rest starters and get ready for the playoffs, because it looked like he was straddling both sides of the fence and the team's performance showed it. I'd like to hear more than just "I want to look sharp."

[kestrel79]

Right after that third down they showed on TV MLF and Baccia looking like a bunch of idiots panicking to go for it or kick the FG. It just was a bad look to me. To me the head coach should already know what to do there right away, thinking out all the scenarios ahead of time.

I've never seen head coaches and special teams coaches talking like that on a sideline. Or do they normally do that kinda stuff over the headset and not in person? Just looked like they really had no idea on clock management again at the end of the game. Bears should of got the ball back with much less time on the clock than they did if you run off the clock properly. 

That call on defense was bad. I think many people were yelling at their TVs seeing how far back the safeties were and 3 guys so close to the sideline down on the bottom leaving the middle wide open with DJ Moore 1 on 1.

I was impressed with Caleb. He made many athletic plays that 2nd half breaking free and getting out of sacks and getting the ball downfield. Reminded me of Love last year. I think he's going to be a good player, how many great QBs had horrid first years as starters? A lot.

[Brian]

9 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Me to my buddy this morning: “I think Jeff Hafley has done about as well as he can this year with what he has.”

Jeff Hafley, a few hours later with the game on the line and the Bears 15 yards from FG range: “Hey, check this out:”

 

Looks like a scheme from Joe Berry's playbook. 

[HarryDoyle]

8 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

Right after that third down they showed on TV MLF and Baccia looking like a bunch of idiots panicking to go for it or kick the FG. It just was a bad look to me. To me the head coach should already know what to do there right away, thinking out all the scenarios ahead of time.

I've never seen head coaches and special teams coaches talking like that on a sideline. Or do they normally do that kinda stuff over the headset and not in person? Just looked like they really had no idea on clock management again at the end of the game. Bears should of got the ball back with much less time on the clock than they did if you run off the clock properly. 

That call on defense was bad. I think many people were yelling at their TVs seeing how far back the safeties were and 3 guys so close to the sideline down on the bottom leaving the middle wide open with DJ Moore 1 on 1.

I was impressed with Caleb. He made many athletic plays that 2nd half breaking free and getting out of sacks and getting the ball downfield. Reminded me of Love last year. I think he's going to be a good player, how many great QBs had horrid first years as starters? A lot.

1. MLF and Bisaccia should've known what the plan was before the drive even started. Discuss what McManus's field goal range was. 

2. Not saying you are, but I can't put blame on Valentine for giving up the reception to set up the game winning field goal. He was put in a position to fail.

[HarryDoyle]

10 minutes ago, Brian said:

Looks like a scheme Joe Berry's playbook. 

There's been several times this season where I thought Barry was still DC. That's another discussion that needs to take place in end of year interviews as far as coaching goes.

[Brian]

2 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

There's been several times this season where I thought Barry was still DC. That's another discussion that needs to take place in end of year interviews as far as coaching goes.

I think Matt LaFleur actually could be the issue behind a lot of these problems,  Both Rodgers and Love have a 63% completion rate this season. Hmmm and Rodgers is over the hill. 

[Sixtolezcano]

3 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

There's been several times this season where I thought Barry was still DC. That's another discussion that needs to take place in end of year interviews as far as coaching goes.

Do you really think that MLF will really say anything but positive and reaffirming comments to any of the players or coaches. He seems to want to be everyone’s friend and not give negative feedback.  Hafley will most like get a pat on the butt with a”good try, we’ll get them next year.” MLF has singularly the most disappointing Packer employee this season.

[HarryDoyle]

3 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Do you really think that MLF will really say anything but positive and reaffirming comments to any of the players or coaches. He seems to want to be everyone’s friend and not give negative feedback.  Hafley will most like get a pat on the butt with a”good try, we’ll get them next year.” MLF has singularly the most disappointing Packer employee this season.

No, I expect Gute and Murphy to have a conversation with MLF and the coaching staff and make it clear that just making the playoffs is not the standard in Green Bay, it's Super Bowls, and things need to improve to get to where they want to go. MLF needs to improve his in game decision making. Special teams needs to improve. Hafley needs to ask himself if certain coverages in certain situations are things that Barry would do and if the answer is yes, don't do them. Gute also has to improve in bringing in the talent necessary to seriously contend for Super Bowls, and to start hitting on his first round draft picks. There's only so much draft and develop you can do. You can only be the youngest team in football for so long. Get that stud pass rusher like a Myles Garrett. Get that stud #1 receiver like Davante or a Tee Higgens or a Tyreek Hill. Everyone needs to improve.

[HarveysWBs]

3 hours ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Do you really think that MLF will really say anything but positive and reaffirming comments to any of the players or coaches. He seems to want to be everyone’s friend and not give negative feedback.  Hafley will most like get a pat on the butt with a”good try, we’ll get them next year.” MLF has singularly the most disappointing Packer employee this season.

I see this particular criticism sometimes made of LaFleur and I just don’t buy it. I think he is both conscientious and highly image-conscious, and will almost never drag somebody publicly who is under his authority. But this fact often gets conflated with some kind of intensity deficiency or effeminacy or whatever (insert joke about his eyebrows), and that’s crazy to me.

We are talking about a guy who has risen to a notch below the highest echelons of his industry, working in a field where serious posterior chewing is practically a daily necessity. Watch the way he works refs, or screams into the headset on the sidelines. Who do you think he’s talking to? I would be absolutely shocked if he did not ream players or have uncomfortable conversations with coaches on a regular basis. What you see in media cutups and press conferences is not what people are like behind closed doors.

His decision-making has been an issue, and that sometimes has included a slower than needed coaching change from time to time. But let’s be real: LaFleur isn’t happy with subpar results, and there is zero evidence to the contrary.

[adambr2]

11 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I get what they were thinking. Probably thought the entire play would take a bit too long to get another snap off, so they had everyone sit back thinking they'd run around a little bit even if they caught the ball. The second worst thing about that play was that the man coverage was close enough that the tackle was made immediately. Didn't look like the WR was intent on surrendering himself, so if he'd run another 5 yards, the game is over. 

It's an idiotic defensive play call no less, and what I haven't seen anyone bring up is that they did the SAME THING against Minnesota. Completely white flagged a FG attempt to end the first half and defended against only a TD for some reason.

I've seen this so often where NFL HCs exaggerate how long it takes to run a play in these situations.

How many times do modern NFL coaches and DCs need to see a play like that executed before they figure out that an opposing NFL offense can indeed snap a ball, throw a quick pass over the middle for 15-20 yards, get back to the line, and spike it, in less than 15 seconds, particularly when they’re coming out of a timeout and all on the same page?

They could have even given some cushion over the middle if they had just protected the first down marker at the 35. It would have been 4th down, which would have meant no spike and no time for a fire drill FG. The one thing they couldn’t give up over the middle was first down yardage.

[LouisEly]

On 1/5/2025 at 2:21 PM, adambr2 said:

It’s called proactive thinking, the best NFL coaches know before that 3rd down play even happens what their max range is that they’re willing to try based on the conditions and direction. They aren’t staring at their special teams coach like a deer in the headlights trying to figure it out on the fly.

1) Don't conditions often change during the game?  I recall seeing flags fairly stiff at the beginning of the game and then right before the field goal I believe the announcers said that the flags on top of the goal posts weren't moving.  What you plan ahead for at kickoff might not be the case at the end of the game.

B) Doesn't the coach have other more important things to keep track of than what the wind is doing up until the kick?

3) How is the head coach supposed to know how many yards they will get on the previous play?  It has to be an in-the-moment decision because he doesn't know how many yards and what wind conditions until it's actually time to make the kick.

4) A 55-yard kick in Green Bay in January in sub-20 degrees temperature is 50/50 even for the best kickers.  It had to be right at the max point of which they would consider a FG.  It was 4th and 3/4 - if they missed the kick, would you have been on here huffing and puffing that they should have gone for it because it was stupid to go for a 55-yard kick in January in Green Bay?  Be honest...

5) They didn't lose the game because he called timeout with 54 seconds left instead of 44 seconds or whatever.  They lost the game because:

• Reed fumbled deep in their own territory which led to a <30 yard TD drive (Bears +7 points)
• Trick play punt return for TD (Bears +7 points)
• Fumble by backup QB in FG range (Packers -2 expected points, 75% chance of making FG that distance)
• Pro Bowl RB who averaged >7ypc only got 6 carries and didn't play 2/3rds of the game (which had virtually no bearing because the backups averaged 6 yards per carry and Wilson had a great change of direction run for a TD)
• Pro Bowl alternate QB didn't play 2/3rds of the game due to injury

The Packers outgained the Bears 367 yards to 224 and the only reason it was close was because of the four things above, of which the only thing MLF was responsible for was not playing Jacobs more.  Blaming it on calling a timeout is tree vs. forest.

[adambr2]

22 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

1) Don't conditions often change during the game?  I recall seeing flags fairly stiff at the beginning of the game and then right before the field goal I believe the announcers said that the flags on top of the goal posts weren't moving.  What you plan ahead for at kickoff might not be the case at the end of the game.

B) Doesn't the coach have other more important things to keep track of than what the wind is doing up until the kick?

3) How is the head coach supposed to know how many yards they will get on the previous play?  It has to be an in-the-moment decision because he doesn't know how many yards and what wind conditions until it's actually time to make the kick.

4) A 55-yard kick in Green Bay in January in sub-20 degrees temperature is 50/50 even for the best kickers.  It had to be right at the max point of which they would consider a FG.  It was 4th and 3/4 - if they missed the kick, would you have been on here huffing and puffing that they should have gone for it because it was stupid to go for a 55-yard kick in January in Green Bay?  Be honest...

5) They didn't lose the game because he called timeout with 54 seconds left instead of 44 seconds or whatever.  They lost the game because:

• Reed fumbled deep in their own territory which led to a <30 yard TD drive (Bears +7 points)
• Trick play punt return for TD (Bears +7 points)
• Fumble by QB in FG range (Packers -2 expected points, 75% chance of making FG that distance)
• Pro Bowl RB who averaged >7ypc only got 6 carries and didn't play 2/3rds of the game (which had virtually no bearing because the backups averaged 6 yards per carry and Wilson had a great change of direction run for a TD)
• Pro Bowl alternate QB didn't play 2/3rds of the game due to injury

The Packers outgained the Bears 367 yards to 224 and the only reason it was close was because of the four things above, of which the only thing MLF was responsible for was not playing Jacobs more.  Blaming it on calling a timeout is tree vs. forest.

Again, MLF himself admitted that he badly dropped the ball.

As far as 1) , he had opportunities to have these conversations with Bisaccia as soon as the turnover happened. It doesn’t all just have to happen pre-kickoff.

B ) (?) It’s all part of his job. The “more important things” include clock management. It is all part of a HCs job. I’m not putting the blame on our OC here.

3) Why exactly does MLF need to know how many yards the previous play will gain or lose? He doesn’t. All he needs to know is the exact field position that he’s willing to try a FG at if they face 4th down.

4) Nope, I wouldn’t have, and not even close to the point. I don’t criticize MLF for the sake of doing so. In fact, on the many occasions this year when MLF doesn’t “take the points” and fails on 4th down this year, I defend the aggression. Going for it there was defensible, regardless of result. Going for the FG was defensible, regardless of result . Not being on the same page with your ST coordinator as to what you were going to do is not defensible. Having your ST coordinator shout at you “look at the time!” after the timeout is not defensible.

As an aside, can you imagine Andy Reid or Dan Campbell staring at their ST coordinator after that 3rd down, panicking as to what to do, then burning a timeout to give Love a chance to rally for the game winning FG with 50 seconds left and a timeout? Would never, ever happen. 

5) They did lose the game because of the timeout. If the timeout was not called, the Packers almost certainly win. Yes, those other things that you mentioned could have turned the game as well. The horrible defensive 3rd and 15 call lost them the game as well.

The overwhelming consensus, including from MLF himself, was that he did indeed mismanage the clock. He is not above reproach and it is ok to call it out.