Brewers' payroll discussion

[bigred]

13 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

OK ... considering how long teenage prospect take to hit the majors, go back, say, 6 years or so and look at the Brewers' top 20. By my count, 14 of the 20 played in the majors, Go back to 2016, and its 13. Go back to 2014, and its 17. Granted, not all of those players have had long MLB careers, but a good portion of them have. 

To answer your question about "how many SS and CF prospects do we really need?", that answer is a lot, as the players who play those positions are typically the best athletes, which makes them more versatile and makes it substantially easier to change positions later on. That, sir, is not a new conept.

Still don't need all of them though. I'm not implying they should trade away our whole minor league system. Our system is definitely deep enough though, that they can afford to trade a few of them to try and get better now. 

[liveforoctober]

21 minutes ago, bigred said:

Still don't need all of them though. I'm not implying they should trade away our whole minor league system. Our system is definitely deep enough though, that they can afford to trade a few of them to try and get better now. 

We traded Wiemer+ for Montas.

We did exactly what you are saying we didn't do. What are you talking about? Did you think Crochet was available for that price?

[bigred]

17 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

We traded Wiemer+ for Montas.

We did exactly what you are saying we didn't do. What are you talking about? Did you think Crochet was available for that price?

Nope. It was obvious when they traded him, he was the typical 4A player. Imagine what they probably could have got for Wiemer a year or 2 before that. As far as Crochet, we have plenty of highly thought of prospects, that they probably could have got him last year already, but I highly doubt they even inquired about him. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

6 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

We traded Wiemer+ for Montas.

We did exactly what you are saying we didn't do. What are you talking about? Did you think Crochet was available for that price?

Also picked up Civale for Gregory Barrios, who was just outside the Top 20 at the time. They got Nick Mears for Bradley Blalock, who is a top 20 type. Mark Canha for Justin Jarvis in 2023. And of course, Estuary Ruiz for Contreras. So these types of deals do happen. Pretty often actually.  

[bigred]

21 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

We traded Wiemer+ for Montas.

We did exactly what you are saying we didn't do. What are you talking about? Did you think Crochet was available for that price?

I'm done with this conversation. 

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

I'm done with this conversation. 

You're timing is just so strange man.. We are not even 2 months removed from Matt Arnold being named MLBs Executive of the year. They looked around all of baseball and pointed at Milwaukee and said "no one is doing it better than that guy" ... 

How lucky are we as a fan base that we have the Executive of the year AND one of our fans on the message boards can do the job better...

Golden age of Brewers baseball.

[gregmag]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

As far as Crochet, we have plenty of highly thought of prospects, that they probably could have got him last year already, but I highly doubt they even inquired about him. 

Just Google “Brewers Garrett Crochet.”  Numerous media outlets reported that the Brewers actively pursued Crochet. Finding this information is not rocket science. (Even I can do it!)

[bigred]

34 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

You're timing is just so strange man.. We are not even 2 months removed from Matt Arnold being named MLBs Executive of the year. They looked around all of baseball and pointed at Milwaukee and said "no one is doing it better than that guy" ... 

How lucky are we as a fan base that we have the Executive of the year AND one of our fans on the message boards can do the job better...

Golden age of Brewers baseball.

Would much rather have a better shot at a championship. Wouldn't you? After all, that what organizations tell their players and fan bases they strive for, right? 

[bigred]

25 minutes ago, gregmag said:

Just Google “Brewers Garrett Crochet.”  Numerous media outlets reported that the Brewers actively pursued Crochet. Finding this information is not rocket science. (Even I can do it!)

You truly believe that? If it's true, then they must have expected to get him for little to nothing in return. 

[brewerfan82]

19 minutes ago, bigred said:

You truly believe that? If it's true, then they must have expected to get him for little to nothing in return. 

At what point is this just trolling? The pushback from people comes from the fact that you don't back up anything you say with any sources, research, examples, or analysis. Do you have any of this to back up making a statement like this? Did you even bother to read any of the articles? With your standpoint on the subject matter it would seem to like it would be an interesting read for you and it seems very odd for you to have such strong opinions on it if you don't even try to educate yourself on the matter.

[liveforoctober]

29 minutes ago, bigred said:

Would much rather have a better shot at a championship. Wouldn't you? After all, that what organizations tell their players and fan bases they strive for, right? 

Absolutely. That's why I'm excited to hear your thoughts. I guess I also needed to put some of that response in blue.

You have said multiple times in other threads that you know Milwaukee can't spend the money of bigger markets, so we know that isn't your issue. You've mentioned trading from organizational depth to bolster the roster and when it was mentioned the Brewers do it repeatedly your response was that they are trading them at the wrong time with disadvantageous value and you have said you are tired of this happening year after year.

So that means we are expecting it to happen again this year? I would love to hear which pieces of our organization you would trade today and to whom and for what if you have any ideas? Being a 20/20 vision fan of the past is not a great trait but if you can have the vision for the future you can be an asset to the team! What are your thoughts?

[bigred]

1 hour ago, brewerfan82 said:

At what point is this just trolling? The pushback from people comes from the fact that you don't back up anything you say with any sources, research, examples, or analysis. Do you have any of this to back up making a statement like this? Did you even bother to read any of the articles? With your standpoint on the subject matter it would seem to like it would be an interesting read for you and it seems very odd for you to have such strong opinions on it if you don't even try to educate yourself on the matter.

Trolling? Seriously? Whatever. 

[bigred]

1 hour ago, liveforoctober said:

Absolutely. That's why I'm excited to hear your thoughts. I guess I also needed to put some of that response in blue.

You have said multiple times in other threads that you know Milwaukee can't spend the money of bigger markets, so we know that isn't your issue. You've mentioned trading from organizational depth to bolster the roster and when it was mentioned the Brewers do it repeatedly your response was that they are trading them at the wrong time with disadvantageous value and you have said you are tired of this happening year after year.

So that means we are expecting it to happen again this year? I would love to hear which pieces of our organization you would trade today and to whom and for what if you have any ideas? Being a 20/20 vision fan of the past is not a great trait but if you can have the vision for the future you can be an asset to the team! What are your thoughts?

They do that repeatedly? I'm talking about Yelich type moves. Not constant trades trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I understand some fans don't want to risk losing a prospect or 3 that end up being really good. There's always risk of that happening though. Have to be willing to take risks sometimes, to get try and get better now. Look at the Yelich deal for instance. We gave up 3 very high position prospects of ours, and a pretty good pitching prospect for him. The only one that sort of panned out, was Yamamoto. The other 3 pretty much sucked. We ended up with the current face of our franchise, MVP, etc. 

[bigred]

1 hour ago, brewerfan82 said:

At what point is this just trolling? The pushback from people comes from the fact that you don't back up anything you say with any sources, research, examples, or analysis. Do you have any of this to back up making a statement like this? Did you even bother to read any of the articles? With your standpoint on the subject matter it would seem to like it would be an interesting read for you and it seems very odd for you to have such strong opinions on it if you don't even try to educate yourself on the matter.

So anyone with a different opinion than you, is a troller? That's just flat out comical. 

[liveforoctober]

7 minutes ago, bigred said:

They do that repeatedly? I'm talking about Yelich type moves. Not constant trades trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I understand some fans don't want to risk losing a prospect or 3 that end up being really good. There's always risk of that happening though. Have to be willing to take risks sometimes, to get try and get better now. Look at the Yelich deal for instance. We gave up 3 very high position prospects of ours, and a pretty good pitching prospect for him. The only one that sort of panned out, was Yamamoto. The other 3 pretty much sucked. We ended up with the current face of our franchise, MVP, etc. 

Ok! We are getting closer. You are not upset at lack of spending, you are not upset at their lack of trades in volume... you are upset that the Brewers have not traded from organizational depth to obtain future MVPs (Contreras withstanding obviously, yes?) and that is the reason why they are gaslighting us by telling us they are trying to compete for championships.

This is actually a pretty good idea. Trade from the minors to get future MVPs on our team.

Can you find any players from our current minor league depth you would trade and which soon to be MVPs you would target?

[brewerfan82]

9 minutes ago, bigred said:

So anyone with a different opinion than you, is a troller. That's just flat out comical. 

So the basis of your claim that information provided by national baseball writers with inside sources with teams, agents, and players that the Brewers were in ongoing talks with the White Sox regarding Garrett Crochet were false and/or if the Brewers were in talks that they must have expected to get him for little or nothing in return was...?

[yfinn6]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

So anyone with a different opinion than you, is a troller? That's just flat out comical. 

Why would you follow a team (or anyone, for that matter) that you feel is lying to you. What sense does that make? 

[CheeseheadInQC]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

They do that repeatedly? I'm talking about Yelich type moves. Not constant trades trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I understand some fans don't want to risk losing a prospect or 3 that end up being really good. There's always risk of that happening though. Have to be willing to take risks sometimes, to get try and get better now. Look at the Yelich deal for instance. We gave up 3 very high position prospects of ours, and a pretty good pitching prospect for him. The only one that sort of panned out, was Yamamoto. The other 3 pretty much sucked. We ended up with the current face of our franchise, MVP, etc. 

The problems are:

1. Only 2-3 trades of this magnitude happen per year depending on how restrictive your criteria, So between the Yelich trade and the Greinke one before that, the Brewers have been pretty average in the blockbuster trade department.

2. I would imagine they are one of the only small market teams that can say that. The larger markets are less farm system dependent.

3. As I stated before, the Yelich trade and the ensuing deadline deals, plus the promotions of Hader and the big 3 emptied out the top tier of the system. They didn’t really recover at that level until the recent group that graduated over the last two years, and the Brewers needed most of them to fill actual roles on the big league club.

[bigred]

2 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

Ok! We are getting closer. You are not upset at lack of spending, you are not upset at their lack of trades in volume... you are upset that the Brewers have not traded from organizational depth to obtain future MVPs (Contreras withstanding obviously, yes?) and that is the reason why they are gaslighting us by telling us they are trying to compete for championships.

This is actually a pretty good idea. Trade from the minors to get future MVPs on our team.

Can you find any players from our current minor league depth you would trade and which soon to be MVPs you would target?

I've literally said that very thing several times. In other news, looks like Yelich may have also taken a little dig towards our FO and ownership group. https://x.com/FlippinBatsPod/status/1883975469491728440?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1883975469491728440|twgr^0fdc34a5ba21ff908ad9ee4b249e6dd022ea7451|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freviewingthebrew.com%2Fchristian-yelich-may-have-taken-subtle-dig-at-brewers-ownership-he-is-100-right

[bigred]

12 minutes ago, yfinn6 said:

Why would you follow a team (or anyone, for that matter) that you feel is lying to you. What sense does that make? 

I've already explained that. You're late to this conversation. 

[SF70]

12 minutes ago, bigred said:

I've literally said that very thing several times. Looks like Yelich may have taken a little dig towards our FO and ownership group. https://x.com/FlippinBatsPod/status/1883975469491728440?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1883975469491728440|twgr^0fdc34a5ba21ff908ad9ee4b249e6dd022ea7451|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freviewingthebrew.com%2Fchristian-yelich-may-have-taken-subtle-dig-at-brewers-ownership-he-is-100-right

You wish. 

[bigred]

3 hours ago, SF70 said:

You wish. 

I don't think I've ever seen so many fans that absolutely refuse to criticize their favorite team, at all. That's just being unrealistic, imo. They don't walk on water. Does that group of fans here meet once a month somewhere and sing and hold each other's hands? While hoping and praying we get lucky and actually win a WS? I'm a person of action, and some people aren't I guess. 

[areacodes]

52 minutes ago, bigred said:

I don't think I've ever seen fans that absolutely refuse to criticize their favorite team, at all. That's just being unrealistic, imo. They don't walk on water. Does that group of fans here meet once a month somewhere and sing and hold each other's hands? While hoping and praying we get lucky and actually win a WS? I'm a person of action, and some people aren't I guess. 

There are plenty on here and social media that criticize the team.  Just because a majority of posters don’t agree with you on this doesn’t mean they aren’t critical of the team.

What actions are you taking?

I plan to keep hoping and praying that our highly thought front office will continue to field a talented team that makes the playoffs most years and that it breaks our way one year… just as pretty much every other team (minus the highly thought of front office for most of them).

Not sure if I’ll make it to the monthly sing-along in February though…

[bigred]

29 minutes ago, areacodes said:

There are plenty on here and social media that criticize the team.  Just because a majority of posters don’t agree with you on this doesn’t mean they aren’t critical of the team.

What actions are you taking?

I plan to keep hoping and praying that our highly thought front office will continue to field a talented team that makes the playoffs most years and that it breaks our way one year… just as pretty much every other team (minus the highly thought of front office for most of them).

Not sure if I’ll make it to the monthly sing-along in February though…

I'm talking about on here. There's only about 3-4 of us on here that openly criticize the team when we believe it's warrated. Me, Turbo, and maybe 1 or 2 others. That's it. Lol nice try. Most of the people on here that obviously can't stand me(and i don't care in the least) , probably work for the Brewes, or know someone that does, and hearing criticism offends them. Well, that's not our problem. 

[liveforoctober]

18 minutes ago, bigred said:

I'm talking about on here. There's only about 3-4 of us on here that openly criticize the team when we believe it's warrated. Me, Turbo, and maybe 1 or 2 others. That's it. Lol nice try. Most of the people on here that obviously can't stand me(and i don't care in the least) , probably work for the Brewes, or know someone that does, and hearing criticism offends them. Well, that's not our problem. 

A lot of folks are openly critical about many aspects of the Brewers org. Have you ever visited a game thread? There's more negative than positive in those threads. The reason you are being fought against by the entire message board right now is because you STILL have yet to present a single fact or solution to anything you are saying. You are crossing your arms and saying "I don't like it and you can't make me" and all anyone has asked you repeatedly is to provide any kind of proof that the Brewers FO doesn't have the Brewers best interest in mind. One thing. Provide one thing.