Grade the Offseason

[TheeAirbender]

They really needed to find some kind of player besides Durbin in the infield. Just some kind of flyer on someone. And I'm really shocked it didn't happen because they've done some opportunistic depth moves in positions they looked weak in, in the past (Bauers last year for example).  

C- for me. 

 

Sidenote... Although likely washed and it seems like he's limiting the teams he wishes to go to, Nolan Arenado with the cardinals eating the majority of his contract would fit pretty well. But obviously seems like no chance.

[tmwiese55]

I'd go with C- too.  My gut was D but nudge up due to the fact that due to how generally set the team was going in the offseason that there wouldn't be too many moves to be made.    The Williams trade was gonna happen, and the return was generally fine/fair, though I'd have preferred getting the new IF in return or at least someone with more control than Cortes.     

And really the only other move left to be made was replacing Adames. And they just haven't done it yet, so C/D borderline area.    Though I still do expect a Dejong type move.   I hope they can unearth Michael Busch equivalent type trade between now and OD, I just don't think it will happen or it would've already though, thus Dejong type

[Frisbee Slider]

Would an A grade require signing a free agent to a quarter billion dollar contract or trading all of our prospects to ‘go for it’ ?

Are we grading excitement, shrewdness or something else for offseason success?

[TURBO]

Sorry, but I'm giving them an F.

We didn't do one single thing that marks an improvement over last year, in fact, I'm pretty sure we may have gotten worse on the whole, while the rest of the division made moves to close the gap on the Central title.

Replacing Adames was going to be tough for a team that refuses to spend, but I really expected a trade that would address our total lack of power in the IF.  Didn't happen, instead we got an infielder via trade that we have no idea what he will be.  A prospect I guess...

Yes, hopefully, and it's a big maybe, Turang and Ortiz improve and make up some of the ground we lost in Adames.  What if they don't?  What if they are the exact same players as last year.  What if Hoskins is the same player as last year?  Can Durbin make up for all that averageness?  I just don't see our infield being better than last year, and is more than likely, without replacing Adames' power, going to be worse.  Durbin is going to have to shock the world for us to be better in the infield, and that just isn't likely.

Outfield stays the same, however, we will be better there if Chourio plays an entire season the way he played his second half from last year.  If Yelich is fixed, that could be an improvement too if he can see the field 130+ games.  Mitchell will have to step up and be the guy we have been hoping for, but can he stay healthy?  Still have Frelick and Perkins, so not a lot of change all in all.  We will 100% need Chourio and Yelich to anchor this offense along with Contreras, or we are in deep do-do, as nothing else is guaranteed. 

I suppose Cortes provides us with another stable option, providing he can stay healthy, but we have the guy for one year, that's it.   Freddy will be Freddy.  We can NOT count on anything from Woodruff until we see what he's all about.  He's a HUGE question mark, and could just as easily give us nothing.  We already know Hall is hurt, and don't truly know for how long or how serious it might be.  Can we count on Ashby?  I sure hope so.  Civale will eat innings and be a solid #4.  We know we won't be seeing Gasser this season. I am counting on Tobias taking another step forward, if not, our rotation could be a mess, especially if we have another injury to contend with.

So to start the season, we are looking at a rotation of this:

1. Freddy

2. Myers

3. Cortes

4. Civale

5. Ashby/Woodruff/Combination of high prospects?

 

The bullpen I don't worry about.  We know it will be a strength as it always seems to be.  Does anyone get the most of nothing like we do in the bullpen?  Just not a worry imo.

So in the end, how is this line-up any better than last year, and how are we going to hold off the Cubs and the Reds, who have obviously gotten better?

Time will tell, but I'm sticking with an F for my off season grade based on the fact we did next to nothing and our division got better.

[TURBO]

16 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Would an A grade require signing a free agent to a quarter million dollar contract or trading all of our prospects to ‘go for it’ ?

Are we grading excitement, shrewdness or something else for offseason success?

a quarter million dollar contract meaning 250 K?  I doubt anyone signing for 250 K is going to help us much...

[TURBO]

22 minutes ago, TheeAirbender said:

They really needed to find some kind of player besides Durbin in the infield. Just some kind of flyer on someone. And I'm really shocked it didn't happen because they've done some opportunistic depth moves in positions they looked weak in, in the past (Bauers last year for example).  

C- for me. 

 

Sidenote... Although likely washed and it seems like he's limiting the teams he wishes to go to, Nolan Arenado with the cardinals eating the majority of his contract would fit pretty well. But obviously seems like no chance.

If the Cardinals were willing to eat the majority of his contract, he'd already be gone.

[bigred]

14 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Would an A grade require signing a free agent to a quarter million dollar contract or trading all of our prospects to ‘go for it’ ?

Are we grading excitement, shrewdness or something else for offseason success?

Who said anything about trading all of our prospects? The selective reading habits of some here are just ridiculous. People need to stop putting words into my mouth. 

[bigred]

11 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Sorry, but I'm giving them an F.

We didn't do one single thing that marks an improvement over last year, in fact, I'm pretty sure we may have gotten worse on the whole, while the rest of the division made moves to close the gap on the Central title.

Replacing Adames was going to be tough for a team that refuses to spend, but I really expected a trade that would address our total lack of power in the IF.  Didn't happen, instead we got an infielder via trade that we have no idea what he will be.  A prospect I guess...

Yes, hopefully, and it's a big maybe, Turang and Ortiz improve and make up some of the ground we lost in Adames.  What if they don't?  What if they are the exact same players as last year.  What if Hoskins is the same player as last year?  Can Durbin make up for all that averageness?  I just don't see our infield being better than last year, and is more than likely, without replacing Adames' power, going to be worse.  Durbin is going to have to shock the world for us to be better in the infield, and that just isn't likely.

Outfield stays the same, however, we will be better there if Chourio plays an entire season the way he played his second half from last year.  If Yelich is fixed, that could be an improvement too if he can see the field 130+ games.  Mitchell will have to step up and be the guy we have been hoping for, but can he stay healthy?  Still have Frelick and Perkins, so not a lot of change all in all.  We will 100% need Chourio and Yelich to anchor this offense along with Contreras, or we are in deep do-do, as nothing else is guaranteed. 

I suppose Cortes provides us with another stable option, providing he can stay healthy.  Freddy will be Freddy.  We can NOT count on anything from Woodruff until we see what he's all about.  He's a HUGE question mark, and could just as easily give us nothing.  We already know Hall is hurt, and don't truly know for how long or how serious it might be.  Can we count on Ashby?  I sure hope so.  Civale will eat innings and be a solid #4.  We know we won't be seeing Gasser this season. I am counting on Tobias taking another step forward, if not, our rotation is going to be a mess.

So to start the season, we are looking at a rotation of this:

1. Freddy

2. Myers

3. Cortes

4. Civale

5. Ashby/Woodruff/Combination of high prospects?

 

The bullpen I don't worry about.  We know it will be a strength as it always seems to be.  Does anyone get the most of nothing like we do in the bullpen?  Just not a worry imo.

So in the end, how is this line-up any better than last year, and how are we going to hold off the Cubs and the Reds, who have obviously gotten better?

Time will tell, but I'm sticking with an F for my off season grade based on the fact we did next to nothing and our division got better.

Nobody should ever be sorry about speaking their honest opinion. 

[owbc]

C+

Despite the grade I’m fine with the offseason, the reality of our finances is what it is. I’m glad we hung onto Hoskins and the Williams trade is a “wait and see”. 

I would have liked to see us make at least one more move with some high upside but it seems like the trade market has been pretty quiet and when 93 wins is your baseline you don’t necessarily have to shake things up too much with a fairly young team that should see some individuals have career years in 2025. 

[Frisbee Slider]

13 minutes ago, TURBO said:

a quarter million dollar contract meaning 250 K?  I doubt anyone signing for 250 K is going to help us much...

LOL

Quarter billion 🙂

Quarter million seemed like a lot when I typed it.

[bigred]

1 minute ago, owbc said:

C+

Despite the grade I’m fine with the offseason, the reality of our finances is what it is. I’m glad we hung onto Hoskins and the Williams trade is a “wait and see”. 

I would have liked to see us make at least one more move with some high upside but it seems like the trade market has been pretty quiet and when 93 wins is your baseline you don’t necessarily have to shake things up too much with a fairly young team that should see some individuals have career years in 2025. 

That baseline was with the offensive #'s Adames put up, which is now gone, and they didn't absolutely nothing to try and replace them. 

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, bigred said:

That baseline was with the offensive #'s Adames put up, which is now gone, and they didn't absolutely nothing to try and replace them. 

You don't think we can expect any of our young guys, like Chourio, to bite into those numbers with improvement?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You don't think we can expect any of our young guys, like Chourio, to bite into those numbers with improvement?

Right. Improving the lineup doesn't always mean "eye for an eye"

[bigred]

7 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You don't think we can expect any of our young guys, like Chourio, to bite into those numbers with improvement?

Bite into? Sure. Possibly. Though who's to say our opponents won't make adjustments of how they pitch to him? Who's there to truly protect him in the lineup, so they don't automatically pitch around him? Chourio may replace a fraction of them, but definitely not the majority of them. Imo, we won't win the division this year. Hope they prove me wrong. If they do, unlike most people here, I'll have no problem admitting I was wrong. 

[Brewcrew82]

8 minutes ago, bigred said:

Bite into? Sure. Possibly. Though who's to say our opponents won't make adjustments of how they pitch to him? Who's there to truly protect him in the lineup, so they don't automatically pitch around him? Chourio may replace a fraction of them, but definitely not the majority of them. 

I mean they had four months to make adjustments last year, and they didn't, including in the postseason.

I would say William Contreras and Christian Yelich are fine enough protection to put around him in the lineup.

Willy Adames put up a 3.0 bWAR last year. Chourio put up a 3.0 bWAR in the second half alone, which is an over 6.0 bWAR pace over a full season.

So, to say definitively that he can replace only a "fraction of them" isn't really borne out of reality. Not to mention we have plenty of other young guys on this team who could improve and help fill in the gap.

[bigred]

5 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Right. Improving the lineup doesn't always mean "eye for an eye"

When it comes to the #"s Adames put up last year, it pretty much does. 

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

It's already blatantly obvious we won't go beyond that. How many times do they need to get bounced in the 1st rd of the playoffs, before people stop denying reality to themselves? Also, for all of the people that lambaste me about opinion on trades/signings, there a LOT of very low grades here that point to those people actually agreeing with me, but just choose to lambaste me because I have the courage to speak the blunt truth, and it offends them. Well, I'm offended, that they were offended by the blunt truth. Lol

No we lambaste you because you jump up and down about how the Brewers are incapable of advancing past the 1st round of the postseason, while dismissing that if their all-star closer had pitched an inning of one run ball they would have done just that. 

[TheeAirbender]

37 minutes ago, TURBO said:

If the Cardinals were willing to eat the majority of his contract, he'd already be gone.

They don’t want him on this roster though. Something is going to give there soon

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

11 minutes ago, bigred said:

 If they do, unlike most people here, I'll have no problem admitting I was wrong. 

I think I likely speak for most everyone here when I say I'm getting a tad sick of this holier than thou victim card schtick you keep pulling out. You throw negative take after negative take out there, or just keep on banging the same negative take drum, and you get offended when called on it. When you go to a site named "BrewerFanatic" and continuously rip on the team, you need to expect there is going to be pushback. And when you push back on that, it's going to come back at you even harder, especially when you don't bring really any specific ideas to the table on how you would accomplish what you'd like to see done. Instead you tend to try to tear down anyone who has any shred of optimism toward this team. 

I am not telling you how to fan. That's certainly not my place. And as I've pointed out, I totally understand the frustration with what the team has done this offseason. But beating on the same idea in thread after thread is getting old.

[bigred]

23 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I mean they had four months to make adjustments last year, and they didn't, including in the postseason.

I would say William Contreras and Christian Yelich are fine enough protection to put around him in the lineup.

Willy Adames put up a 3.0 bWAR last year. Chourio put up a 3.0 bWAR in the second half alone, which is an over 6.0 bWAR pace over a full season.

So, to say definitively that he can replace only a "fraction of them" isn't really borne out of reality. Not to mention we have plenty of other young guys on this team who could improve and help fill in the gap.

 

23 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I mean they had four months to make adjustments last year, and they didn't, including in the postseason.

I would say William Contreras and Christian Yelich are fine enough protection to put around him in the lineup.

Willy Adames put up a 3.0 bWAR last year. Chourio put up a 3.0 bWAR in the second half alone, which is an over 6.0 bWAR pace over a full season.

So, to say definitively that he can replace only a "fraction of them" isn't really borne out of reality. Not to mention we have plenty of other young guys on this team who could improve and help fill in the gap.

Again, stop putting words into my mouth. I said he MAY replace a fraction of them, but to count on a player at his age to replace most of them on his own is........for the lack of better words right now, wishful thinking. 

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

It's already blatantly obvious we won't go beyond that. How many times do they need to get bounced in the 1st rd of the playoffs, before people stop denying reality to themselves? Also, for all of the people that lambaste me about opinion on trades/signings, there a LOT of very low grades here that point to those people actually agreeing with me, but just choose to lambaste me because I have the courage to speak the blunt truth, and it offends them. Well, I'm offended, that they were offended by the blunt truth. Lol

Respectfully, the fact that there are so many negative grades on the off season from posters here and the fact no one else is getting heat for those opinions should give you pause on how you participate on these boards and why you are responded to differently. Differing opinions are welcome, negative opinions are welcome. Why is it different for you?

If I responded to every one of your posts with the exact same GIF of a guy beating a dead horse with a stick... It wouldn't take long before you called me a troll. But that's exactly what your account is becoming. Clicking on your profile and looking at your post history... 95% of your posts in the last two months have been the exact same thing. Brewers FO isn't trying, Mark A is cheap, the fan base is delusional. Regardless of the topic at hand.

We've locked two threads in the last two weeks+ because of this. Self reflect.

[bigred]

33 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

No we lambaste you because you jump up and down about how the Brewers are incapable of advancing past the 1st round of the postseason, while dismissing that if their all-star closer had pitched an inning of one run ball they would have done just that. 

I "jump up and down" because there's an established pattern of that very thing happening. Lol have you not watched their playoff series'? 

[bigred]

19 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I think I likely speak for most everyone here when I say I'm getting a tad sick of this holier than thou victim card schtick you keep pulling out. You throw negative take after negative take out there, or just keep on banging the same negative take drum, and you get offended when called on it. When you go to a site named "BrewerFanatic" and continuously rip on the team, you need to expect there is going to be pushback. And when you push back on that, it's going to come back at you even harder, especially when you don't bring really any specific ideas to the table on how you would accomplish what you'd like to see done. Instead you tend to try to tear down anyone who has any shred of optimism toward this team. 

I am not telling you how to fan. That's certainly not my place. And as I've pointed out, I totally understand the frustration with what the team has done this offseason. But beating on the same idea in thread after thread is getting old.

If that's what you wanna call it. It's obvious though, when it comes to most people on here, they absolutely refuse to acknowledge that their opinions are actually wrong sometimes. If you wanna call pointing that out as being "holier than now", so be it. I get offended? Lmao! Now THAT'S comical. I'm the furthest from being offended on this site. It's also not good for fan forums to all rainbows and unicorns, and singing Kumbaya about the team, when it's not deserved. Like I said, most people nowadays can't handle blunt/unpleasant truths. Especially on here. 

[brewerfan82]

@bigred i support your mission to tell everyone your one thing in every single thread! ✊

[Brewcrew82]

8 minutes ago, bigred said:

I "jump up and down" because there's an established pattern of that very thing thing happening. Lol have you not watched their playoff series'? 

Yes I have. Which is why I’m increasingly questioning if you even watched the last one.